Measuring flow

[DarkenReaper57]

Quick question: how do you guys reliably measure your flow? I have been tempted to break open my loop, aim the water in a bucket, and figure out the volume of water expelled per unit time.

I was told this is not a good estimate.

Is there a good way to estimate flow without buying an expensive flow meter?

I want to know if I need to upgrade my pump before I go to a new setup.

 

[Lite_User]

it's the best low bugdet way.Just make sure the measurement is accurate.
Get a measuring jar for like in the kitchen.
1 or 2 minutes and that's the real flow of your system.
said it before

Grtz

 

[DarkenReaper57]

it's the best low bugdet way.Just make sure the measurement is accurate.
Get a measuring jar for like in the kitchen.
1 or 2 minutes and that's the real flow of your system.
said it before

Grtz

The problem is, my res would empty out within seconds. Did you use a huge res or something? Did you assemble the loop outside of your system, or keep your system there? I would want a realistic estimate, within .25 to .5 lpm if possible...

I also came across this: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=73675&page=1&pp=20. According to this, my WW and eheim 1250 push 7.6 lpm. That is 2.0 gph. I also came across this chart: http://www.procooling.com/html/pro_testing.php. There are marginal gains after 2.0 gpm. I do, however, have other things in my loop, such as the rather uncommon d-tek gpu block. I've tried to find out how restrictive it is, but I haven't found any reliable information on that. I also have a couple of elbows and such.

Basically, I don't want to get below 1.25 gpm if possible, keeping the same pump. If I find out my flow is crap, then I guess I will need to bite the bullet and buy another pump.

Anyway, with the new setup I plan on making, I really want to get cpu temps within 10C of ambient if possible. Right now I am idling at 48C and I do not like it . (room temp is 25-26C). Case is 36C. I really think I am pushing the limits of my single 120mm heater core...

Either that, or something is clogged or my pump is not as good as it used to be.

 

[Top Nurse]

Why do you want to know is probably the most pertinent question? Then we can tell you how to get the info you want because it is quite involved.

 

[Top Nurse]

I really think I am pushing the limits of my single 120mm heater

Me too! Get a bigger radiator like at least a 240 or 360. You might also want to consider just adding another 120 in the loop somewhere before you get all crazy and start replacing everything BTW, what is the problem with running only 12* over ambient?

 

[DarkenReaper57]

Why do you want to know is probably the most pertinent question? Then we can tell you how to get the info you want because it is quite involved.

I don't quite understand what you are getting at. My overall goal is to get better temperatures. I am also set on making my whole setup external, yet portable. I will do this by putting handles on the external portion, and having some sort of disconnect feature (I will probably get the ones made by colder, although they are expensive...I am looking for an alternative...).

In the new setup, I plan on using my 77' bonneville and 86' chevette in parallel. I will equalize the flow between the two, so don't worry about that. My main concern is whether or not my eheim 1250 will be a strong enough pump top go through the two cores, my WW cpu block, and my d-tek gpu block. This is why I want to find out a way to measure the flow.

I don't want to build a new system and end up with something worse than I started with. I want to do this right, but I am sorta on a budget too.

Me too! Get a bigger radiator like at least a 240 or 360. You might also want to consider just adding another 120 in the loop somewhere before you get all crazy and start replacing everything BTW, what is the problem with running only 12* over ambient?

This is true, but the case temperatures are rather high. This is mostly due to the core being inside the case. All of the heat taken out of the core is being dumped into the case. If I go with an external setup with greater cooling capacity, not only will the water temperatures be lower due to the better equipment, but the heat is taken out of the case completely.

This will reduce the ambient temps in the case by quite a bit. I have a Thermaltake Tsunami, and is has dual 120 mm fans, and a side 92mm fan.

Also, with the heater core in the front of the case, this is adding a lot of resistive path to air flow.

I would like to get about 10 C over room temperatures when I am done. I think this is feasible, I have seen it done before. Heck, with my last external setup, I idled at about 42C (it had just the 77' bonneville core). This was in a different case, however. I am sure that this new case has a better cooling capacity.

So yeah, I know I have gotten off-topic, but if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.

 

[Lite_User]

The problem is, my res would empty out within seconds. Did you use a huge res or something? Did you assemble the loop outside of your system, or keep your system there? .

Just lay one end (suction) in a bucket of water and the (presure) other end in your litre-jar.
Then you can measure your flow untill the bucket is empty.I tested it outside my system.
But if you attach longer tubes to in-and oulet, you'll be able to do the test with WC still in your rig.

Hope this helps on the flow issue.

Oh yeah,about connecting the 2 rad's in parallel.They have different resistance, so putting them in serie would be the only way to have maximum heat-dispensation,without restricting the flow.In parallel you'll have to insert a valve that is used to control the same flow to the rad's, if not the rad with the least resistance does all the work and the other rad isn't used (at all or) to its full capacity.

About the airflow, let all your fans blow inside your case,except (off course) the ones by the rad's.


Grtz

 

[DarkenReaper57]

Just lay one end (suction) in a bucket of water and the (presure) other end in your litre-jar.
Then you can measure your flow untill the bucket is empty.I tested it outside my system.
But if you attach longer tubes to in-and oulet, you'll be able to do the test with WC still in your rig.

Hope this helps on the flow issue.

Oh yeah,about connecting the 2 rad's in parallel.They have different resistance, so putting them in serie would be the only way to have maximum heat-dispensation,without restricting the flow.In parallel you'll have to insert a valve that is used to control the same flow to the rad's, if not the rad with the least resistance does all the work and the other rad isn't used (at all or) to its full capacity.

About the airflow, let all your fans blow inside your case,except (off course) the ones by the rad's.


Grtz

I know the radiators will have different restriction. This is why I planned on pinching the tubing on the less restrictive one, using trial and error until the flow is even. I may end up making some sort of insert instead, though. Would pinching work? I don't see why it wouldn't.

 

[DarkenReaper57]

Hey, I thought about something today, and I'm curious as to how well it would work. If I were to stack two heater cores on top of eachother, such as 2 77' bonnevilles, having them so the barbs face opposite ways (I would lay them sideways), and put them in parallel, how would this perform?

I do not currently have a 2nd bonnie, but I am willing to pick another one up if this idea is feasible.

I would make two shrouds of course, there would just be no shroud in the middle, one on each side. I would seal along the center so the thing was air-tight between the cores.

Would the fans have enough "oomph"? I would this this could perform quite well, but I could be wrong.

Yeah, I'm sure this is overkill, but I like it that way .

BTW, the purpose of stacking is to save space. I want to build an external enclosure including the rads, pump, and hopefully a res, but I want it to only be abould 1/2 to 3/4 the side of a standard case if possible.



I currently have a 77' Bonneville and a 86' chevette, if the above is a no-go, how would you guys orient the two cores for space and cooling efficiency? I want the box to be flush to the sides of my Thermaltake Tsunami case if applicable.

I was thinking of putting them sideways, like the above, but this might be difficult because they aren't the same size. I suppose it could work, though. I would have a decent amount of space this way.

I originally thought of putting them end to end. This would work, but I think it would look rather strange, since the two cores would then be longer than the case. It would stick out of the back or the front, looking...funny. I'm picky about aethetics, sue me . Also, this design would have very little room for a pump and a res.

What do you guys think? Any input?

 

[Lite_User]

sorry that's a no go about putting the rads on top of each other.Because the allready heated air, only will have a minimal effect on the second rad.Eihter way it's not using the rad's full potential.Next to each other,is no problem.
I looked at your case and seems you'll have some room for two 120 mm rads on each side. So if your rad fits these dimensions, I would fit them there,blowing out and the 90mm side-fan blowing inside.
The case seems large enough to insert what ever you want.And putting them side-ways (or on top) is indeed the best space perserving way to fit large rads.

And pinching is ok.But maybe use those tiny garden-hose valves,for like small time irrigation.


Grtz

 

[DarkenReaper57]

sorry that's a no go about putting the rads on top of each other.Because the allready heated air, only will have a minimal effect on the second rad.Eihter way it's not using the rad's full potential.Next to each other,is no problem.
I looked at your case and seems you'll have some room for two 120 mm rads on each side. So if your rad fits these dimensions, I would fit them there,blowing out and the 90mm side-fan blowing inside.
The case seems large enough to insert what ever you want.And putting them side-ways (or on top) is indeed the best space perserving way to fit large rads.

And pinching is ok.But maybe use those tiny garden-hose valves,for like small time irrigation.


Grtz

Thanks for the advice, and I have thought about this already, but II really don't want something internal anymore. Not only does it cramp up the case, but it dumps all of the head inside the case. With something external, the heat is taken out of the system completely, so my temperatures are lower overall.

I did take some measurements and it looks like I can put the radiators next to eachother lengthwise like I said. It isn't quite as long as previously thought, but it doesn't leave much space for the pump, etc .

As for the radiator stacking, I see where you are coming at, but I don't think (correct me if I am wrong) that the temperature delta from one radiator to another will be too significant. It still isn't the best way to set things up though, I know that. Stacking will have a lot of resistance to the flow of air.

I guess I could always put both radiators sideways, so there is room for a pump...it might look kinda goofy with the air coming out from the side rather than the top though.

I'll crank out some design ideas with autocad or something in a few days, and see what you guys think.

 

[DarkenReaper57]

After some thought, I have thought of placing the radiators on their sides in a box (their fans facing sideways) that would be flush with the sides of the case (perhaps a bit longer, lengthwise). One rad will be place after another...so it would be rather long with the two.

Anyway, for space efficiency, if I placed a pump behind one of the radiators, where air is taken in, would this affect temperatures? Pumps generate heat, and I do not want to put hot air into the radiator. Air is constantly circulated, so I would think that the delta would not be too great, but I could be wrong. The reason for this placement is space efficiency, so I can fit the pump with the radiators.

Here is an image of what I am basically talking about, minus several details:

 

[Lite_User]

After some thought, I have thought of placing the radiators on their sides in a box (their fans facing sideways) that would be flush with the sides of the case (perhaps a bit longer, lengthwise). One rad will be place after another...so it would be rather long with the two.

Anyway, for space efficiency, if I placed a pump behind one of the radiators, where air is taken in, would this affect temperatures? Pumps generate heat, and I do not want to put hot air into the radiator. Air is constantly circulated, so I would think that the delta would not be too great, but I could be wrong. The reason for this placement is space efficiency, so I can fit the pump with the radiators.

Looks good, I don't see anly problems here.The pump gives a surtain amount of heat.
But it's not so much, in air. Submerged in water, like my pump, you'll have do deal with all the pump-heat.
So I would go for this setup.The loss of a few Watts isn't a big deal.
Just make a fairly large reservoir, if you want to stay at load for long periodes of time (Gaming)

Grtz

 

[DarkenReaper57]

Looks good, I don't see anly problems here.The pump gives a surtain amount of heat.
But it's not so much, in air. Submerged in water, like my pump, you'll have do deal with all the pump-heat.
So I would go for this setup.The loss of a few Watts isn't a big deal.
Just make a fairly large reservoir, if you want to stay at load for long periodes of time (Gaming)

Grtz

Hmm, why would a large reservoir be needed? So it takes less time for all of the water to be heated? I guess that makes sense. I could always put the reservoir to the left of the cores, behind the pump (or put the res in front, and pump behind).

It does mean that I will need to make something custom, though .

I was really thinking of just doing a t-line, but I guess a res wouldn't be too bad.

BTW, if I were to rotate the whole thing, such that the pump is under the radiators (I would leave ample space for airflow) do you guys think this would be fine? The pump will be sideways. I just think it would look a lot nicer this way. Maybe not. It could be more of a hassle than it is worth...