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Making the switch!

Setzer777

Setzer777

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
418
Been an AMD user for the past decade and I've decided to make my next upgrade Intel. My budget though was limited to $500 so obviously my choices were limited. Since I didn't want to skimp on my PSU and Case I decided to go with the E6400 cpu for $223 @ Zipzoomfly. The board and memory were bit of an issue for me because I wanted 2GB of memory and in order to get either DDR2 667 or 800 I was going to have to dish out $250-300+ for RAM. So, to save money on memory I decided to get a board that had Core 2 Duo and DDR 400 support so I can just use my 2GB DDR400 out of my existing machine. I found 2 boards that would work with my set-up but only one of them is available in North America. So I went with this one...

ECS P4M890T-M2

Obviously it's not the best board out there but it saves me from having to buy new memory right now. I would have preferred to get the ASRock 775 Twins-HD 2.0 board because of its DDR400/DDR2667 support and it has a PCI-E 16x slot which I needed for my 7900GT card. Trouble is, I can't find this board anywhere so I'm going to go with the ECS board. If any of you know where I can snag one, please let me know! I'm quite aware that my OC options for my 6400 will be limited to none and that's ok. I just want something that's going to perform better than my current set-up.

My PSU and Case picks were a little more difficult. Originally I was going to go with a cheap case and a cheap 500w psu but after reading and doing some thinking I decided it would be a good idea to get a quality case and psu that's going to last me for a while. Here were my picks for the case and psu:

Antec P180B
Corsair 520HX

I almost went with the Hiper Type-R 580w psu because I really liked the modular cabling design but I don't think that design would actually work well in the P180 case -- the cables stuck out a little too far. And my other choice of case was the Lian Li PC-60 II Plus but I wanted something quiet and I've heard good things about the P180.

My final build looks like this:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 (Purchasing $223)
ECS P4M890T Mainboard (Purchasing $50)
2GB PC3200 DDR400 (Already have)
eVGA 7900GT 256mb (Already have)
Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum (Already have)
WD Raptor 74gb (Already have)
Seagate 160gb (Already have)
Sony 48x CDR/W burner (Already have)
BenQ 16x DVD burner (Already have)
Corsair HX520w psu (Purchasing $120)
Antec P180B case (Purchasing $115)

So, what do you all think of my choices? Did I make a mistake by not upgrading to DDR2?
I figure I'll upgrade my motherboard and memory in a few months when there are more Core 2 board options and maybe DDR2 will be a little less expensive. I think this will handle my gaming needs for now, though. Thanks for your input.
 
I think they have an ASROCK board on newegg that does what you want. Something like a dualSATA775 oir something like that. I was going to get that board before I decided on the Gigabyte DS3.
 
I'd recommend DDR2. You can get 2GB of the stuff for about $200 on newegg.
 
Lyquist said:
I think they have an ASROCK board on newegg that does what you want. Something like a dualSATA775 oir something like that. I was going to get that board before I decided on the Gigabyte DS3.
Click to expand...

The ASRock board you are referring to has a PCI-E 4x slot. Would prefer a 16x slot with my new card.
 
RedCt said:
I'd recommend DDR2. You can get 2GB of the stuff for about $200 on newegg.
Click to expand...

If I get DDR2 memory I want it to be good stuff and the DDR2 667 & 800 I was looking at started around $240 for 2GB. Plus, with my budget limited to $500 I would be spending roughly $350 on just the board and memory leaving me $150 for the cpu, case and psu. :(
 
Leykis said:
If I get DDR2 memory I want it to be good stuff and the DDR2 667 & 800 I was looking at started around $240 for 2GB. Plus, with my budget limited to $500 I would be spending roughly $350 on just the board and memory leaving me $150 for the cpu, case and psu. :(
Click to expand...

I'd advise saving until you can do the job right. Scrounge around for some deals, buy a piece at a time, and check the FS/FT forum and see what else you can get to lighten up your financial burden.
 
Get the ASrock Dual VSTA if you REALLY have to keep your DDR1 mem. At least that board can overclock to some extent and also let's you upgrade to DDR2 later on.

Unless, of course, you believe in marketing and think that a PCI-E16X slot makes your videocard faster than a PCI-E 4X slot.

BTW, where did you find that the board has a PCI-E 4X slot and NOT 16X? I can't see that....not that it matters at all whatsoever.

Oh and no offense, but you're buying a Case for over $100, a Raptor harddrive, a X-Fi platinum, a E6400 and a 7900GT, but you can't buy the better mobo and new memory....
I'd buy a $75 case, a 6300 and a Hitachi HDD as well as a Audigy2 and have the money for a NICE board and some NICE memory. But that's just me.
 
Dan_D said:
I'd advise saving until you can do the job right. Scrounge around for some deals, buy a piece at a time, and check the FS/FT forum and see what else you can get to lighten up your financial burden.
Click to expand...

Here's the problem - if I want to use my computer right now then I'm going to have to get some parts ordered now. I just did a step-up on my video card through eVGA and went from an AGP card to PCI-E. Obviously my new card isn't going to work with my 754/AGP motherboard. This set-up is only temporary until early next year. Really though, how much of a performance increase am I going to notice going from 2GB of DDR400 to DDR2 667 or 800? The memory is the only thing not being upgraded in what I consider a pretty good build for $500.
 
Post the parts you are actually buying and their prices.

Then we tell you how to substitute and get a better mobo and mem along with it ;)

Seriously....if you HAVE to, get the ASRock Dual VSTA.....but if you have $50 somewhere, do yourself a favor and get a decent setup from the getgo. Otherwsie you'll just end up being frustrated and will buy something else later anyways.

FYI the difference between DDR1 and DDR2 is not very big performance wise. However, buying a board now that doesn't support DDR2 is throwing money out the window.
 
ScYcS said:
Get the ASrock Dual VSTA if you REALLY have to keep your DDR1 mem. At least that board can overclock to some extent and also let's you upgrade to DDR2 later on.

Unless, of course, you believe in marketing and think that a PCI-E16X slot makes your videocard faster than a PCI-E 4X slot.

BTW, where did you find that the board has a PCI-E 4X slot and NOT 16X? I can't see that....not that it matters at all whatsoever.

Oh and no offense, but you're buying a Case for over $100, a Raptor harddrive, a X-Fi platinum, a E6400 and a 7900GT, but you can't buy the better mobo and new memory....
I'd buy a $75 case, a 6300 and a Hitachi HDD as well as a Audigy2 and have the money for a NICE board and some NICE memory. But that's just me.
Click to expand...

Sorry I didn't make myself clear in my original post. The HD's, X-Fi card and 7900GT card are things I already own. The only items I will be purchasing are a case, cpu, psu and motherboard.

I'll have to check that ASRock board again. Could have sworn I read somewhere the PCI-E slot was only 4x. As far as it mattering at all? According to eVGA's web site the card they sent me requires a 16x PCI-E slot.
 
eVGA tries to say that you can't put the card into one of those dinky little PCI-E 1X slots. The ASRock board has a standard PCI-E Videocard slot. If it is working at 16X or 4X doesn't make a difference in operation regarding performance. You'll never max out the PCI-E 4X bandwidth with the 7900GT or any other card on the market currently. And since you're more than likely upgrading the Mobo after that and not your videocard, it's a moot point really.
 
ScYcS said:
Post the parts you are actually buying and their prices.

Then we tell you how to substitute and get a better mobo and mem along with it ;)

Seriously....if you HAVE to, get the ASRock Dual VSTA.....but if you have $50 somewhere, do yourself a favor and get a decent setup from the getgo. Otherwsie you'll just end up being frustrated and will buy something else later anyways.

FYI the difference between DDR1 and DDR2 is not very big performance wise. However, buying a board now that doesn't support DDR2 is throwing money out the window.
Click to expand...

I updated my original post.

I figure $50 is worth it for the motherboard - it's only temporary.
 
ScYcS said:
Unless, of course, you believe in marketing and think that a PCI-E16X slot makes your videocard faster than a PCI-E 4X slot.
Click to expand...

***EDIT***

Didn't see your reply.
 
I would sell your old parts and do the system the right way. Downgrade your case and psu to $30-60 dollar range each and pick up some of the value DDR2 then get a good mobo from asus or gigabyte in the 100-160 dollar range perhaps a gigabyte DS-3 and go for the E6300 if you need to save some cash.

Here is the Gigabyte DS3 for $146 from newegg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012

Nice $40 500w PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817148027

E6300 $180
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115005

Good $45 case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119068

1gig of DDR2 PC5400 $120 (get the other gig later)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141210

Total= $531 = problem solved.... you can shop around a little more for these parts or close to the same parts and work that price down to $490-500 after shiping and taxes.
 
nullzero said:
I would sell your old parts and do the system the right way. Downgrade your case and psu to $50-65 dollar range each and pick up some of the value DDR2 then get a good mobo from asus or gigabyte in the 100-160 dollar range perhaps a gigabyte DS-3 and go for the E6300 if you need to save some cash.
Click to expand...

Honestly, how much do you think I'm going to get for an AMD 3000 and a DFI 754 board with 2GB of RAM? $50? $60?

I really don't want to get a cheap psu and case because those will last me longer than my memory, cpu and board will.

So, pretty much you are all saying that by sticking with my DDR400 memory I'm not going to get anywhere near the performance I would be getting by going with DDR2 memory?
 
i bought the asrock 775 dual board still using ddr400 and if u look at anandtechs review ddr 2 doesnt seem to make that much of a diff. its a good board for the cash and means u can upgrade slower for those of us who dont have bundles of cash lying around lol
 
nullzero said:
Here is the Gigabyte DS3 for $146 from newegg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012

Nice $40 500w PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817148027

E6300 $180
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115005

Good $45 case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119068

1gig of DDR2 PC5400 $120 (get the other gig later)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141210

Total= $531 = problem solved.... you can shop around a little more for these parts or close to the same parts and work that price down to $490-500 after shiping and taxes.
Click to expand...

That PSU won't be enough for my video card. Need at least 20amps on the 12v rail.

Also, you're saying going with that set-up would be faster than what I came up with? I just don't see how going with 1GB less memory and a slower CPU is going to give me better overall performance?
 
There is plenty of other good PSU choices in the $40-60 range that will be plenty of power for you. Yes DDR2 will blow give a significant boost in performance. E6300 on a DS3 can OC very easily you can pull 2.4ghz without even trying... to add to the point look at the OC database most people are pulling off 3.0ghz on air stable espically with a good mobo like the DS3. You can sell your socket 754 setup for $80-$100 pretty easy I would think, just go under the trade and for sale section on hardforums the CPU can pick up around $20 the 2GB memory at least +$40 and the mobo at least $20 those are all conservative low ball estimates. Im almost certain you will get alot of people intrested in those items for around those prices.
 
A crappy mobo and crappy ram will hurt your performance by bottlenecking your CPU and the rest of the system.
 
I say skip the ECS and get the ASRock instead. I just ordered it along with an E6600 so I can keep my GPU, HDD's, PSU's, and RAM (2GB).

I'm planning to keep the ASRock + E6600 combo and reuse my older stuff until a mature DX10 GPU comes out next year and Vista is stable as well.

In the meanwhile, you can still OC the E6600 or the E6400 using the ASRock board. If it's more voltage you want, there is a voltmod guide for the AGP, northbridge, and the CPU voltages to increase OC'ing headroom.
 
Optimummind said:
I say skip the ECS and get the ASRock instead. I just ordered it along with an E6600 so I can keep my GPU, HDD's, PSU's, and RAM (2GB).

I'm planning to keep the ASRock + E6600 combo and reuse my older stuff until a mature DX10 GPU comes out next year and Vista is stable as well.

In the meanwhile, you can still OC the E6600 or the E6400 using the ASRock board. If it's more voltage you want, there is a voltmod guide for the AGP, northbridge, and the CPU voltages to increase OC'ing headroom.
Click to expand...

Going to consider getting that ASRock board. I didn't know it wasn't necessary to have a PCI-E 16x slot to use the card.
 
You dont have your pcie video card yet? If thats the case I would go with the asrock as well considering your budget. I thought you posted that you did a swap from an AGP to a PCIe card. The main problem I see with your choice is buying a mobo that you will eventually get rid of. Now hear me out if you get a ds3 or another mobo with kentsfield support you can come in with the budget e6300 and upgrade to a quadcore kentsfield in the future on the same mobo and sell the e6300 which would hold its value more then a low end asrock or ecs mobo.
 
nullzero said:
You dont have your pcie video card yet? If thats the case I would go with the asrock as well considering your budget. I thought you posted that you did a swap from an AGP to a PCIe card. The main problem I see with your choice is buying a mobo that you will eventually get rid of. Now hear me out if you get a ds3 or another mobo with kentsfield support you can come in with the budget e6300 and upgrade to a quadcore kentsfield in the future on the same mobo and sell the e6300 which would hold its value more then a low end asrock or ecs mobo.
Click to expand...

No, I already have the 7900GT PCI-E card, I got it through evga's step-up program. I thought I needed an MB that had a PCI-E 16x slot in order for the card to work properly because according to evga's product page on my card it says it requires a 16x PCI-E slot. When I was researching motherboards that supported DDR400 memory I could have sworn I came across a review that stated the PCI-E slot on the ASRock 775-Vista was a 4x slot - not 16x. So, I disregarded that board and went with the ECS board. I would have preferred to get the ASRock 775 Twins 2.0 board because it specifically states it has a PCI-E 16x slot on the product page, which I linked in my original post.

Here's my thoughts on getting a relatively inexpensive motherboard now. I'm saving myself roughly $350 now and I'm getting a great CPU(E6400), a great PSU and case. By February-March there should be a few more Core 2 boards out there and the price of DDR2 memory will be less expensive. Instead of spending $350 I could be spending $250 and I can take my $50 MB, put it in a case and build myself another PC for my business.
 
Leykis said:
That PSU won't be enough for my video card. Need at least 20amps on the 12v rail.
Click to expand...

Your 7900 GT will work fine with that PSU. Combined amps on the dual 12v rails is well over 20 (34 to be exact).
 
Leykis said:
Here's my thoughts on getting a relatively inexpensive motherboard now. I'm saving myself roughly $350 now and I'm getting a great CPU(E6400), a great PSU and case. By February-March there should be a few more Core 2 boards out there and the price of DDR2 memory will be less expensive. Instead of spending $350 I could be spending $250 and I can take my $50 MB, put it in a case and build myself another PC for my business.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking in a similar way. My reasoning is this: For now, I want to enjoy the benefits of the latest generation of dual-core CPU while reusing most of my existing components such as IDE HDD's, SATA-I HDD's, IDE optical drives, PSU, AGP GPU, and 2GB of DDR400 while I wait to buy a new motherboard and a PCI-e GPU next year, after Vista has been out for a while (I'm gonna wait at least a minimum of 6 months after Vista's release before I buy it to give time to Microsoft to iron out driver and security issues).

I'm also gonna wait until the DX10-level GPU's have had the time to mature and migrate to the 80nm or lower process level b/c for now, my 6800GT flashed to Ultra can handle the games I currently play (Oblivion, FEAR, Titan Quest) at a reasonable resolution of 1280x1024.

So, by buying components in a step-wise way, I get a more mature OS, more mature DX10 GPU, cheapter and faster DDR2 modules, and a mobo that is feature-rich and yet costs a decent amount.
 
One more question if you don't mind. Will this....

E6400
Gigabyte DS3
1GB DDR2 667

outperform this....

E6600
ECS P4M890T
2GB DDR 400

?
 
I think it would be very close in real world performance on the stock level.... However if you were to OC there would be no contest. A e6400 on a DS3 can get some nice OCs I would go to the point to say 3ghz is almost a sure thing on air with the e6400 on the DS3 (alot of people are hitting the 3.2ghz range stable. I doubt the other setup with the e6600 could get more then a 400-500mhz OC max if that because of the mobo and ram limitations.

So the question is are you OCing? If you are the DS3 with the E6400 will outperform... If you are running stock you may see close to the same speed in real use stuff.

E6600 is nice but its a shame to stick it in a underpowered mobo and bottleneck it with slower ram and limited OC options. With the first option you would be using the processor to almost its full potential with the option of upgrading the processor to a kentsfield (quad core) down the line.

*its really a toss up because of the fact your budget and inflated memory prices... but who knows when and if memory prices will ever come back down :(.
 
I still don't get this "slower" RAM deal? I've seen benchmarks at several different Tech sites(Andtech, Tom's hardware and others) showing performances between DDR 400 and DDR 667 & DDR 800 and the differences are minimal and in some tests the DDR 400 actually came out ahead because of it's 2.5 CAS Latency. So, I don't see how I'd be hurting my performance by using 2GB of DDR 400 with my C2D cpu? Another thing I don't get...if DDR2 is all that then how come prices for DDR 400 are going for about the same as DDR2 533 and 667? You'd think DDR 400 would be dirt cheap and it's not. I mean, if the performance difference was significant then I wouldn't even consider it but it's not and if I can still get some more mileage out of my $300 2GB Corsair memory then I'm going to do it.
 
Oh, I also don't plan to OC, at least not right now. I think a few months down the road when there are more board choices and DDR2 actually shows me something then I'll probably do some OC'ing.

My dilema now is, which CPU to get? E6400 or E6600? Obviously the E6600 would be the way to go if I'm not going to OC but the question is, how much better gaming performance am I going to get by spending $100 more and getting a E6600? And for longevity purposes I'd probably get more mileage out of the 6600 so that's another thing I need to consider.
 
I think the best question would be... are you planning to upgrade to quad core down the road?

EX. 1 You buy ECS and e6600 for $90+$330= $420 total today... you then want to buy upgraded mobo 1 year from now with 2gig DDR2 lets say thats $150+$200= $350.... The total you would spend in a total of 1 year would be $770 lets say.

EX. 2 You buy Gigabyte DS3 and E6400 for $150+$230= $380, Then 1gig of DDR2 for $120 so we got a total of $500. Now here is the big difference you can still sell your old 2gig of DDR400 for a good price... I would say you can get $80 for it pretty easily. So that would take off most of the price for the 1 gig DDR2.

Now lets say a year from now you buy the second 1 gig of DDR2 for $90. Total spent in 1 year $590 compared to $770... but wait lets say a new quad core E6600 E6700 and E6800 come on the market around the end of this year (which they most likely will). 1 year from now its safe to say you will be able to pick up a quad core E6660 for around $250-$300. So lets add $300 to the total for a mid line quad core cpu.

Total in 1 year: $890... But you get a Quad Core CPU! which is compatible with the DS3.

So in the end its $770 vs $890 lets say the only difference is the second choice blows away the first in performance. I think if you look at it this way its much easier choice.
 
Well actually the ECS board is $50 not $90 and the E6600 is $315 not $330. So, total there would be $365. I could even get the E6400 for $225 with that $50 ECS board and only spend $275 and still have my 2GB of RAM. My point is, right now DDR2 isn't a significant performance upgrade when compared to DDR1. So, let's say I get this DS3 board? I'm limiting myself to DDR2 800. What about when new DDR2 hits the market like DDR2 1000 or higher that has lower latency and really makes a difference? I still got my DS3 board that I spent $150 on. I think if I do decide I want to step up to Quad core I'll buy my board, chip and memory at that time, that way I'm getting a board that supports the latest DDR2 memory.
 
Leykis, I was over estimating the taxes and shipping and thought the base price of the ECS board was around $70-80. Anyway if your interested im planning on selling my MSI 975x board for $85 flat. Im disapointed with the OCing on it, its slightly used by me about 3 weeks of use and runs like a champ on stock settings. If you dont plan to OC and run stock it would probley be a good board for you. If your interested send me a private message we can work out the details and I can answer any questions you have.

This is a newegg link of the MSI mobo im selling for $85 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130051
 
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