Major Computer Problem: Need help identifying cause!

[baptizer]

Hello All!
I am hoping someone can help me with a problem I am having....it is really driving me crazy and I cannot identify what the cause is! Let me run through my setup real quick and then I will describe the symptoms:
-AMD64 3200+
-Asus K8V-SE Deluxe Mobo
-Corsair PC3500 512mb Ram (BH-5)
-PNY 6800GT Video Card
-80 GB Western Digital SE Hard Drive

Well, here is what is happening: My computer keeps totally locking up! The only thing I can do is hit the reset button on my computer! It only occurs when my machine does some work, meaning, when I play a game or when I run prime95. Keep in mind, I have my bios settings at default...I am not overclocking at all even though I would like too! At first I ran memtest in dos because I thought it was the ram. While running memtest, my machine would lock up most of the time. Because of this, I figured the problem was the ram. However, I recently swapped out my ram with my roommate and my computer is still locking up when it is doing some work!

I took the side of my case off and I noticed my machine was able to do work a lot longer than with the side of the case on. In fact, when it normally locks up under 5 minutes with prime95 I was able to run prime95 for 45 mins or so with the side of the case off before it locked up (again, keep in mind I am not overclocking at all).

So, basically, I am looking for some advice as to what the cause of the problem might be. My mobo and cpu came pre-assembled...I got in on the AMD deal (I work for circuit city...about time it pays off). Could the cooling tape on the cpu and heatsink be uneven or something, causing problems? Should I replace it with artic silver and see what the results are (will that void the warranty on the combo?). This has been driving me crazy cause I really thought it was the memory...but that does not appear to be the case.

Hope someone can help! (Note: I am using the newest bios version)

 

[Anarchonixx]

Well, check what temps the proc is running at on the BIOS, and then report back. It sounds like a heat problem; only thing that bothers me is it's locking up instead of restarting, but it's still very possible.

 

[compslckr]

Well, check what temps the proc is running at on the BIOS, and then report back. It sounds like a heat problem; only thing that bothers me is it's locking up instead of restarting, but it's still very possible.

i think it may be a heat issue, try reseating the heatsink with some artic silver. the reason it is not restarting could be because the motherboard does not have thermal protection enabled so it just keeps running insted of restarting; you know, like that toms hard ware video where they take the heatsinks off of various processors while running a game, and the amd ones just go up in smoke after like 5 seconds.


check your bios and report back

http://www12.tomshardware.com/images/thg_video_1_cpu_cooling.zip there is the link to that video if you want to check it out

 

[baptizer]

THANKS for the quick replies.......I truely appreciate it!


The temperatures seem fairly decent.

Using the ASUS tool(that came with the mobo...it displays temperatures) in windows, while running prime95 the temperature never reaches 45-46 degrees. Could this be reporting a bad temperature?

Looking at the temperatures in bios, the cpu is running around 39 degrees or so. But obviously, this is while it is not 'working' When the machine locks up and I quickly hit restart and jump into bios, the temperatures are typically around 45-46 degrees.

This whole thing is really depressing. I just cant put my finger on the problem!

 

[Impact9]

Could the cooling tape on the cpu and heatsink be uneven or something, causing problems? Should I replace it with artic silver and see what the results are (will that void the warranty on the combo?).

No doubt what so ever it is over heating. Thermal tape sucks, get some artic silver and do it right. Also post a pic of the inside of the case. You must have some terrible air flow in that case if just pulling the sides off increases run time.

 

[baptizer]

Considering the mobo, cpu, and heatsink were pre-assembled when I got it I was thinking that maybe that was the problem. Maybe they put the cooling tape on incorrectly or something?

I will take a pic and post it, but it will probably take me awhile. I am currently at work (ugh) and when I get home I have to drive from VA to PA to visit my parents.

Any other ideas as to what the problem might be, just so I can get a variety of ideas? Because the problem occurs in memtest ( a dos application), we can rule out the hard drive and video card, correct?

 

[Elledan]

Any other ideas as to what the problem might be, just so I can get a variety of ideas? Because the problem occurs in memtest ( a dos application), we can rule out the hard drive and video card, correct?

Not until you've disconnected/replaced them both. In fact, I would strip this system down to its bare essentials and try to get that stable first.

However, from your description it definitely sounds like the system is overheating (side panel on/off). After the system locks up, try touching all heatsinks with your finger. Any heatsink which feels hot to the touch is a bad sign, worse if it nearly burns your finger.

Reseat the HSF first though, as it sounds like the most likely culprit. Another possibility might be that the HS of the NB is not properly making contact, or is getting too hot even with the HS properly mounted.

 

[baptizer]

Hello All! (I am tying this message in pieces cause my machine keeps locking up..and I dont wanna rewrite everything!! hehe)

Well...I am back from a long weekend at the parents house and have nothing but bad news to report in terms of my problem. I took off the heatsink and replaced the thermal paste that was on there (note: previously I mentioned that I said there was thermal tape on there...I was wrong. I figured when they constructed the combo they woulda put tape, but nope....paste).

EDIT 1: I called the company who sent me the cpu/mobo combo and they are sending me a replacement. However, I am still a bit apprehensive that either of those things are really causing the problem.

So far, we can rule out the memory and soon we will be able to rule out the cpu and mobo. So I tried running some tests on my harddrive thinking that it might be causing the problem. As I mentioned before, my computer locks up during memtest (with side of case on, it locks up pretty quickly....with side off, it locks up after about 20 mins or so). Well, this time I ran a test with the harddrive with/without the power connector. With the power connector on, it locked up 2 minutes and 08 seconds in. With the hard drive power connecto off, it made it to around 40 mins or so.......it never locked up.

Technically speaking, could the problem REALLY be the harddrive? What does the hard drive have to do with memtest? Obviously, my boot order has the floppy device before the hard drive....can the hard drive actually be the problem?

By the way, I have a brand new 550Watt power supply.

 

[earthscore]

im pretty sure its the fan too....if compatible put all ur stuff in ur room mates case with his power supply and fan and test it out.

 

[baptizer]

im pretty sure its the fan too....if compatible put all ur stuff in ur room mates case with his power supply and fan and test it out.

Hello! Hmm...why do you think its the fan? Temperatures are fairly decent and the heatsink is not hot to touch at all. Also, when I replaced the thermal paste I obviously re-seated the heatsink, so that does not appear to be the problem.

Again, at first I thought it was the fan/heatsink as well....however, after replacing the paste and checking temperatures, do you really think that is the problem?

 

[Elledan]

A HDD draws a considerable amount of power. It could be that the PSU is the real culprit.

Of course, you can't be certain without a) trying another PSU, b) using another HDD instead and c) use this HDD in another system.

And don't forget to try a different IDE cable

 

[TheMostWantedPolishTwin]

..did you try reseating the HSF? are you positive that your PSU isn't defective..? what are your voltages? it might be that your mobo isn't supplying enough voltage to the CPU/ memory..

 

[baptizer]

Hello Guys:
Thanks for the replies.......I really appreciate them!

A few things:
1. I am almost certain the heatsink is seated properly. I double checked it to be sure. Also, the temperatures never really get too hot.
2. I wanted to add another symptom to this problem. I mentioned previously that my machine locks up only when I am doing somethign, such as gaming, running memtest, running prime95, etc. However, on a few occasions it has locked up while just sitting in windows (cpu temperatures around 34-37 degrees).
3. I have a brand new antec 350w power supply sitting in my closet (came with the case, which I replaced with a Super Flower 550ww power supply. Would the 350w be enough to power the following devices: 6800GT Video Card, 80GB Hard Drive, DVD/CD Burner, and two fans (not including the heatsink)?
4. I tried a variety of cpu voltages, ranging from default all the way to 1.625 volts.


I would also like to give a brief history of my previous pc, which contained this exact same hard drive and memory. On occasion, the hard drive would do a random 'click-click' and the screen would freeze....however, after a few seconds it typically unlocked and things were fine. At first, I thought it was the power supply (this power supply is still in my old computer) because if I would disconnect the cd burner from the power supply, things 'seemed' fine. I also thought that it might have been the memory.....but I dont think that is the case. Maybe we should ignore this paragraph..but I thought some of this might be important since I am using the same Memory and Hard Drive (nothing else....everything else is brand new).

Any ideas? I'll definitely replace the IDE cable first. Should I then swap out the 550w with the 350w and see what happens? My hard drive is under warranty so I can get a replacement if necessary. Thanks again for the help everyone, and especially Elledan for your constant help!

 

[Elledan]

At this point it still sounds like a power-/heat-issue, although the HDD worries me.

The 'click-click' is heard when the servo-mechanism of the HDD resets itself, which is not something which should happen during normal conditions.

I would first take out this HDD and use another one, then strip down the system to its bare essentials, i.e. only the mainboard, CPU, RAM, videocard, one HDD and a PSU. Run it outside the case (on a non-conductive surface) for bonus points.

Hit yourself in the face with a brick if you forgot to reset the CMOS before firing up the above configuration.

First use the 550 W PSU, then switch it with the Antec if you're still having problems.

 

[earthscore]

is it possible ur temperature thing isnt broken along with the fan?? u could be overheating and not knowing it(sry for the bump)

 

[theNoid]

What PSU did you buy ? Some brands are crap, and a bad PSU could definately be the cause of all your problems. Swap the PSU with a buddies and test that out.

Most 500w+ PSUs suck.

 

[Elledan]

is it possible ur temperature thing isnt broken along with the fan?? u could be overheating and not knowing it(sry for the bump)

By this time he either has solved the problem and forgot about this thread, or the system exploded, possibly taking him down as well

 

[baptizer]

Hello Guys!
Sorry for the delay...with the wedding and honeymoon, I was side-tracked a bit. Took us awhile to get back into our normal groove!

Anways, here is a brief update. Could you believe I was actually typing a post to this thread about an hour ago, to report how I havnt had a problem in over 3+ hours!!! Then, when i was just about to finish writing the post, BOOOM, computer freezes! Anways, this is what I did this past weekend:

-installed replacement cpu/mobo
-Put artic silver on heatsink....verified heatsink was seated properly
-Replaced all IDE cables
-Installed 120mm fan in front of case (one in back, and one in front now)

Temperatures are ALOT better I noticed with this new mobo/cpu. Barely reaches 40 degrees under prime95 load....previous one touched 47 degrees or so.

I got my replacement hard drive (had 3 year warranty..I got them to ship me a replacement first, then ill send them this one). Well, as I mentioned above, my pc still locked up So now I am going to replace the 550w flower psu with the antec 350w psu. will 350 be enough for my setup, considering my graphics card?

If that doesnt solve the problem, then I will replace the harddrive with the new one. SIGH......man, this is a never ending story! Next thing that will happen is a huge-a$$ white dog will be outside my window!!

 

[Elledan]

Did this system ever lock up while in the BIOS?

Anyway, I would definitely try the Antec PSU. Disconnect some equipment (CD-ROM drive, fans, etc.) if you're worried about it drawing too much power.

Also, I recommend that you get rid of this HDD as soon as possible. Any HDD which makes 'funny' noises is suspect as far as I'm concerned.

Did you try the 'stripped down' approach already?

 

[baptizer]

Elledan
Just wanted to answer a few of your questions before tonight (when I will have some time to work on my computer; currently at work). My am fairly certain that my pc has locked up in the bios as well, however I maybe wrong.

I would do a stripped down approach, but there really is not much to strip out. All I have is a video card, wireless network card, and a dvd player. My plan is to go home, install the 350w power supply and install windows on my replacement drive. If I STILL have the problem after tonight, my pc must be haunted

 

[Elledan]

I would do a stripped down approach, but there really is not much to strip out. All I have is a video card, wireless network card,

Take it out.

and a dvd player.

Take it out.

My plan is to go home, install the 350w power supply and install windows on my replacement drive. If I STILL have the problem after tonight, my pc must be haunted

When solving an issue like you're having with this system, the first thing you do is to decrease the number of variables. Every single device and components of them (CMOS battery!), every cable, they're all variables.

What this means is that you take the mainboard out of the case, put it on a non-conductive surface, then add the CPU, HSF, RAM and videocard, possibly a FDD as well. Hook up a PSU and start testing the sh*t out of this configuration. If you can't get it stable, start replacing components (not randomly unless you're really desperate) until it no longer crashes. Resetting the CMOS often helps to solve absurd issues.

Once the minimal configuration is stable, add a HDD and install the OS on it (you could use an existing installation, but a fresh one is one less variable). Proceed with testing this configuration.

With the last configuration stable, you then put it in the case, start adding other components (soundcard, NIC, DVD-drive, etc.), meanwhile testing the system after each change.

Believe me, doing things any other way would take both longer and really put your sanity at risk

 

[Jitsu]

I've been reading along with this post and I dont understand one thing Elledan. Why take the components out of the computer case? To make swapping parts easier?

 

[Elledan]

I've been reading along with this post and I dont understand one thing Elledan. Why take the components out of the computer case? To make swapping parts easier?

It all comes down to variables. With no case to worry about, the risk of the plate behind the mainboard or some other random component shorting out the mainboard or something else is simply reduced to zero.

The fact that it makes swapping parts easier is an added bonus.

 

[baptizer]

*drum roll* *loud cheers*
ITS FIXED!!!!!!!!!

Elledan (and others) thanks for your time in trying and successfully assisting me! My computer has been running smoothly for over 48 hours, while running prime95 and some other various programs. I did exactly as elledan suggested: I took everything out of the case to eliminate all the various. Obviously it was a pain in the butt, but it definitely was a great idea!

When I took everything out, my pc still locked up. I replaced the hard drive with the new one, and it STILL locked up!!! So, in essence, I had only two things that had not been replaced: the power suppy and the memory. I replaced the power supply and BANG, problems went away! Many suggested this to be the problem, however, I was a bit stuborn in thinking this was the problem.

So all is good with my pc right now! Just want to thank everyone for taking the time to chime in and assist me, especially elledan. Lets hope I dont run into any future problems.........now I can FINALLY overclock a bit, but I think I am going to wait and just celebrate a bit

 

[Elledan]

Did you test the PSU with a DMM while it was on and connected to the system? At least one of the rails must have been way out of spec for it to destabilize the system in this manner. That, or an excessive amount of ripple on the aforementioned rails (made visible with an oscilloscope).

Anyway, burn the PSU in the bonfire erected to celebrate this joyful event after you've smashed it in true Office Space-style into little bits

Oh, and on a sidenote, do realize that overclocking a system shortly after you've fixed it is really asking for something horrible to happen to it, you, or both...