MAC or PC for Audio Recording.....

[AnAngelsDeath]

Which one and Why....

discuss


EDIT - I'm undecided myself

 

[450]

Doesn't really matter IMO. Both platforms have decent software and hardware now.

For casual users though, Garageband is really nice. I wish there was a Windows equivalent of that program.

 

[Audiochris]

My vote is Mac but I actually use both. I like Logic a lot better than Pro Tools. The workflow is better for the way I work. On the Windows side I use pro Tools but I always find myself exporting the project back to Logic. I would say at this point it's more about software than hardware.

 

[AnAngelsDeath]

I heard from a couple people I played some gigs with awhile back, that when recording with a PC, especially when Multi-Tracking, that no matter what you do or how nice your gear is, there's this low hum in the background...now I personally have used both and I've never experienced this problem while recording on my PC DAW, and I've used everything from Adobe Audition to Pro Tools and never have had that issue. Anyone else experience this ? i think its BS, but figured i would see

 

[KnishofDeath]

I heard from a couple people I played some gigs with awhile back, that when recording with a PC, especially when Multi-Tracking, that no matter what you do or how nice your gear is, there's this low hum in the background...now I personally have used both and I've never experienced this problem while recording on my PC DAW, and I've used everything from Adobe Audition to Pro Tools and never have had that issue. Anyone else experience this ? i think its BS, but figured i would see

If you like OSX get a mac, if not it makes no difference, Oh and yes that is a load of bullshit.

 

[obobski]

I heard from a couple people I played some gigs with awhile back, that when recording with a PC, especially when Multi-Tracking, that no matter what you do or how nice your gear is, there's this low hum in the background...now I personally have used both and I've never experienced this problem while recording on my PC DAW, and I've used everything from Adobe Audition to Pro Tools and never have had that issue. Anyone else experience this ? i think its BS, but figured i would see

its mac fanboi BS

there is no benefit to owning the mac unless you like Logic (which only runs on OS X), most other major DAW applications run on either (ProTools, for example) and most hardware will be compatible with either

personally I prefer Windows, because it doesn't lock me into the Apple hardware platform, but again, its all preferential based on the software

 

[AnAngelsDeath]

I figured it was, i mean I dont' know a lot about macs, and but I do kno a lot about PC's and I've never experienced any hum when recording with PC's. I'm sure the person i heard it from just heard it from someone else and just said it to try to sound smart, hes that type of person lol

 

[phide]

there is no benefit to owning the mac unless you like Logic (which only runs on OS X), most other major DAW applications run on either (ProTools, for example) and most hardware will be compatible with either

Pro Tools doesn't run as well on Windows as it does on OS X. That fact may change eventually, but right now, Pro Tools runs best on OS X. It's only been cross-platform for a few years now, so this should come as no surprise.

 

[Sycraft]

More or less it is dependent on what software you want to use. Some is cross platform, some is only for a given platform. There is no real technical difference between the two especially since in all likelihood your soundcard will use ASIO (cross platform) and your VIs/effects will be VST (cross platform). While I suppose there are some theoretical difference in performance due to OSes, it doesn't matter in practice because your plugins use way more power than anything else.

Personally, I like Windows for it because Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Vegas are two of the very best media programs out there IMO and they are both Windows only. All the VIs I like (EastWest mostly) are cross platform and same with all the effects.

As a practical matter I personally am going to use Windows for it since I own a Windows system. While a Mac could work for pro audio for me, it wouldn't work for gaming and I don't have the $3000-5000 to drop to get a tower.

 

[obobski]

Pro Tools doesn't run as well on Windows as it does on OS X. That fact may change eventually, but right now, Pro Tools runs best on OS X. It's only been cross-platform for a few years now, so this should come as no surprise.

I've never had or heard of issues with it either way (Beyond typical "Digidesign sucks" or "I hate ProTools, get logic!" complaints (I also don't know many Macheads who will take Digidesign over Logic)), sounds like more "Mac is always better for audio" hype to me (Digidesign has had products for Windows and Mac for nearly as long (we're talking less than 2 years difference), you're not gonna convince me that they somehow have no experience with design for a Windows environment and its just a terrible port)

honestly, the Apple platform was only "better" for audio in the mid 1990's, and it wasn't mixing movies or anything else that large, it just had more available hardware interfaces, its 2009 (nearly 2010) now, the quality of h/w interfaces for "both" (its the same hardware) platforms is equal, the only difference is software, and since Windows Vista/Windows 7, most of the complaints in that regard have been dealt with (but its not like ASIO doesn't work or anything)


sy:
<3 Sony, but it seems to take a bad rap
and you could always pay even more to get a copy of Windows and run it on your Apple for gaming or similar, but then that'd make you less exclusive and unique for using Windows

 

[Sycraft]

I hate Sony as a company with the fire of a thousand suns.... But dammit if Vegas isn't the best NLE video app I've ever seen. It might fall over with really complex stuff, I don't know, but for other stuff it is great. I find it to be as complicated as it needs to be, meaning you can do simple stuff really easily, but that doesn't prevent you from doing more complex stuff if you learn how. I also like that it treats audio and video largely the same so you can easily do multi-track audio in the same program with the same interface.

As for the Mac, ya, about that . Thus far nobody has ever been able to show me what I'd gain and I'd sure as hell lose a large number out of my bank account. I've just yet to see any compelling argument for what one would do for me.

 

[Audiochris]

I used to use Sound Forge on a daily basis both in the Sonic Foundry days and the early Sony days. Absolutely solid app and as far as I can tell Sony has continued to do a good job with it.

 

[DoubleZedRed]

its mac fanboi BS

there is no benefit to owning the mac unless you like Logic (which only runs on OS X), most other major DAW applications run on either (ProTools, for example) and most hardware will be compatible with either

personally I prefer Windows, because it doesn't lock me into the Apple hardware platform, but again, its all preferential based on the software

or digital performer ;]

there are some interface differences between the OSX and windows versions of a few programs (like reason) but for the most part there isn't enough of a difference to justify the extra $ for a mac (unless you're getting a mac pro.)

 

[phide]

I've never had or heard of issues with it either way (Beyond typical "Digidesign sucks" or "I hate ProTools, get logic!" complaints (I also don't know many Macheads who will take Digidesign over Logic)), sounds like more "Mac is always better for audio" hype to me

Get some personal experience with Pro Tools on Windows and then talk to me. I own two Pro Tools LE rigs, one which runs on a PC and the other on a Mac mini, and have used numerous Pro Tools HD rigs, primarily on Macs (as not many studios are comfortable with running Pro Tools on PCs), but additionally on PCs.

Pro Tools 7 was extremely problematic on Windows. Version 8 is an improvement, and in fact a rather substantial one, but Pro Tools is still generally unstable and problematic on Windows. You'll find little to no disagreement anywhere that Pro Tools is more reliable and is generally better on OS X.

EDIT: I'm also a certified Pro Tools Operator, for what that's worth.

 

[Sycraft]

Ya well, I am not at all a Pro Tools fan. Anything else aside, they are still stuck on doing fixed point math in their DAW, because of the history of their TDM cards. I am a big believer in floating point calculations for your DAW and plugins. You can actually very easily see the reasoning by looking at graphics. You'll find for complex shaders you want to use at least 16-bit FP and usually 32-bit FP, despite rendering to 8 or 10-bit targets. Same deal for audio. For that 32-bit FP should be a minimum.

Floating point gives you high precision (23-bits for 32-bit FP, 52-bits for 64-bit FP) over a wide range, and means that clipping isn't a big deal anymore since 0dB isn't the top (you of course have to normalize it down before you convert the track to an int format).

I personally think Pro Tools is a relic of a past age. Back in the day when computers were weak your options were either wait forever to do slow, disk based offline rendering like Cool Edit did, or use expensive dedicated DSPs like Pro Tools did. Those DSPs were integer units, by necessity, since it was cheaper silicon wise and every cycle counted. However now CPUs are strong, overwhelmingly so. It makes far more sense to run things on the CPU, and that being the case, to do so in floating point.

For that matter these days if acceleration was needed, I'd want to look at GPUs. They are all highly parallel FP devices that would do a good job, and are cheap and plentiful.

 

[DoubleZedRed]

Ya well, I am not at all a Pro Tools fan. Anything else aside, they are still stuck on doing fixed point math in their DAW, because of the history of their TDM cards. I am a big believer in floating point calculations for your DAW and plugins. You can actually very easily see the reasoning by looking at graphics. You'll find for complex shaders you want to use at least 16-bit FP and usually 32-bit FP, despite rendering to 8 or 10-bit targets. Same deal for audio. For that 32-bit FP should be a minimum.

Floating point gives you high precision (23-bits for 32-bit FP, 52-bits for 64-bit FP) over a wide range, and means that clipping isn't a big deal anymore since 0dB isn't the top (you of course have to normalize it down before you convert the track to an int format).

I personally think Pro Tools is a relic of a past age. Back in the day when computers were weak your options were either wait forever to do slow, disk based offline rendering like Cool Edit did, or use expensive dedicated DSPs like Pro Tools did. Those DSPs were integer units, by necessity, since it was cheaper silicon wise and every cycle counted. However now CPUs are strong, overwhelmingly so. It makes far more sense to run things on the CPU, and that being the case, to do so in floating point.

For that matter these days if acceleration was needed, I'd want to look at GPUs. They are all highly parallel FP devices that would do a good job, and are cheap and plentiful.

HOW DARE YOU CALL PROTOOLS ARCHAIC IT'S THE INDUSTRY STANDARD MACS DONT GET VIRUSES AND THEY'RE PERFECT AND PROTOOLS RUNS ON MAC ONLY BECAUSE MAC IS BETTER THAN PC THEYVE GOT BETTER HARDWARE AND AND AND AND YEAH THEYRE MORE STABLE SO TAKE THAT YOU SILLY NOOB AND EVERYONE KNOWS THAT TIMBALAND KNOWS WHAT HES DOING AND HE USES PROTOOLS SO YOURE WRONG BECAUSE YOURE NOT SELLING MILLIONS OF ALBUMS.


[/troll]

 

[phide]

Ya well, I am not at all a Pro Tools fan. Anything else aside, they are still stuck on doing fixed point math in their DAW, because of the history of their TDM cards.

It's not a problem so long as the mixer's internal precision is high enough. The catch with Pro Tools is that each "jump" from a plug-in's output to the mixer requires dither, whereas this isn't necessary in a full floating point mixer. In a complex session, the accumulation of all this additional dither might cause additional noise, but it's pretty unlikely.

Floating point gives you high precision (23-bits for 32-bit FP, 52-bits for 64-bit FP) over a wide range, and means that clipping isn't a big deal anymore since 0dB isn't the top (you of course have to normalize it down before you convert the track to an int format).

The same is true for Pro Tools. The internal mixer is 48-bit fixed, which gives you around 50 dB of mixing headroom in a 24-bit session. Digi published a white paper about the mixer not too long ago.

Floating point math can achieve more with fewer bits, but so long as the mixer itself is operating at a higher bit depth than the input, you still get headroom.

For that matter these days if acceleration was needed, I'd want to look at GPUs. They are all highly parallel FP devices that would do a good job, and are cheap and plentiful.

There are actually a couple VST plug-ins that run in CUDA available right now, and they're apparently very efficient.

 

[ashmedai]

Whichever one you have on your desk?

I heard from a couple people I played some gigs with awhile back, that when recording with a PC, especially when Multi-Tracking, that no matter what you do or how nice your gear is, there's this low hum in the background...

It's called line noise, it's almost always a hardware issue, and the people you were talking to are idiots. If you want better results, know your noise sources and how to manage them.

 

[Sycraft]

I understand that you can deal with noise and clipping in a fixed point system by simply increasing the bits (same as FP) however it seems a silly way to do things these days. CPUs are really good at floating point math, and they are good at things in 32-bit or 64-bit FP. They are not good at 48-bit fixed point. You are either running on a 64-bit processor as a 64-bit app, which can handle 64-bit ints, and truncating, or you have to use a math library to combine registers on a 32-bit processor (or 64-bit processor in 32-bit mode).

I'm not saying this is critical, however it is a no longer needed relic of an earlier era. They are too attached to their original TDM spec and won't update it. Everything else in the audio industry is floating point pretty much, since that's what CPUs (and GPUs) do.

Also one of the things that FP is good for is you keep your precision, even at extremely small and large values. With any fixed point system you have to trade precision for headroom, and you lose precision with small values. With floating point, your precision is constant over your entire range.

I realize that it is mostly an edge case where this would matter in audio, but again CPUs are better at it so why not use it?

I am just not a big fan of companies that get stuck in a way of doing things because "That's how we used to do it." Ok, fine, that is how you used to do it. That is not how you should now be doing it.

I also start to have realistic worries about precision when you start talking about virtual instruments and such things. You are now entering the same area as graphics shaders in terms of having truly staggering numbers of calculations that contribute to the output. Small errors slowly add up and get multiplied in such a scenario.

 

[AnAngelsDeath]

As a practical matter I personally am going to use Windows for it since I own a Windows system. While a Mac could work for pro audio for me, it wouldn't work for gaming and I don't have the $3000-5000 to drop to get a tower.

thats one of the major reason I'm sticking with PC as well, I'm not a only a hardcore Musician, but a Gamer all the way, and with a Mac i cant do that, except some blizzard and bungie games, and you can customize your PC way more then a MAC. and i dont wanna own two computers its a waste of electricity, especially in this day and age when were so energy aware