M2 SSD questions

[Dawgdoc]

Hey all. Making a new gaming rig and have some basic questions about storage and read/write times.

While researching m2ssd, I read somewhere that your read/writes will only be as fast as the slowest sata device in your system? Ive not heard this before. It wasnt a highly reputable source it was some random post from perhaps here, or another forum, or somewhere i cant recall.

I purchased 2 x 512gm Samsung 950 M2 ssd which will be arriving either Fri or Monday for my new system and im either going to run them both as general storage with nothing else, or perhaps was going to be a bit silly and do a RAID 0 and add another 512 general SSD or maybe even HDD for basic storage of files/etc.

Will adding a different storage device slow down or limit my M2s in any way at all either if I use them as is or RAID 0 them?

And just since Im excited....gotta flaunt the new nasa system lol!!

Mobo: GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 (rev. 1.0)
CPU: i7-6700K under water with Corsair Hydro Series™ H115i
Memory: G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3400
Storage: SAMSUNG 950 PRO M.2 512GB (TIMES TWO!)
Video: EVGA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 06G-P4-1996-KR 6GB HYBRID GAMING ( TIMES TWO SLI RAWR!)
Monitor: Acer XB270HU bprz Black 27'' 144Hz WQHD G-SYNC

ohh theres a PSU and case in there too but they arnt nearly sexy enough to flaunt

Basically fell in love with the monitor...and some games even with my OC 970 and z97 setup I get some struggles running appropriate FPS at 1440p 27" so...treated myself to some upgrades

Thanks in advance for any info

 

[darkeen]

I read somewhere that your read/writes will only be as fast as the slowest sata device in your system?

Not true. Your read/write is limited by the slowest component in the chain to the drive you're reading/writing on. With m2 the chain is
CPU -> PCIE -> storage controller -> nand

Will adding a different storage device slow down or limit my M2s in any way at all either if I use them as is or RAID 0 them?

If you add say a mechanical disk to the M2 raid you will deeply slow down the raid. If it's a separate volume then it will not affect the raid.

 

[SomeGuy133]

Not true. Your read/write is limited by the slowest component in the chain to the drive you're reading/writing on. With m2 the chain is
CPU -> PCIE -> storage controller -> nand



If you add say a mechanical disk to the M2 raid you will deeply slow down the raid. If it's a separate volume then it will not affect the raid.

this. This only applies if the M.2 is part of a RAID with a SATA device....no one would do that though. It would make no sense.

BTW this is better RAM due to the latency is lower overall.
G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14D-32GTZ - Newegg.com

see this thread to compare the RAM.

Excel file to find 1st, 4th, 8th word Latency!

I'll be expanding it over the next month while i am in Asia...assuming i have down time

BTW thats an interesting MB. ASRock OCF aint bad either. I like some of those features it has (GB G1 MB).

make sure you get a good PSU. check guru3D out and hard for their reviews.

 

[Dawgdoc]

TY for the replies

Ill definitely look at that ram and might swap it out.

The extra storage would be independent of the RAID 0 (if I even do RAID 0). SSD or HDD on a separate SATA port exclusively for storage and overflow.

Was reading this review of this motherboard and now im confused regarding the SATA options on this board. A lil down from the top it describes how some SATA ports become disabled when others are in use.... Will I be able to use 2 x M2 ssd (Samsung 950) with SLI 980ti without disabling too many SATA ports? Id like to put a DVD player in here and maybe/perhaps a SSD or HDD for storage...esp if I do RAID 0 the 950s....which would be ridiculous overkill but....thats what this system is to begin with...ridiculous overkill lol....
Gigabyte's Z170X-Gaming 7 motherboard reviewed

I dont know squat about PSUs, but I always go by Johhny Guru so I assume this PSU is more than adequate, and even preferred/ideal?
EVGA 220-P2-1000-XR 80 PLUS Platinum 1000 W 10 yr Warranty ECO Mode Fully Modular NVIDIA SLI Ready and Crossfire Support continuous Power Supply - Newegg.com
EVGA Supernova P2 1000W Review

 

[SomeGuy133]

Yea those EVGA sunflowers are solid.

I cant answer the SATA question. You need to look over the manual and figure out what shares what. Z series have less SATA and PCIe than X series boards/CPUs so many things disable if X and X is in use.

 

[jamesv]

The only advantage I see having a RAID array using M.2s is using RAID 1 for real time redundancy.
RAID 0 has no advantages in real world usage and data is lost, RAID 3/5/10 is worthless as during a rebuild I can only imagine real time access would come to a crawl, unless of course you using a RAID Controller Card but then one should see the rebuild process provided by a review before buying.
LSI SAS Cards are pretty complete, the on board chips from Supermicro and ASRock look pretty robust.

I've been using M.2s since the XP941 and they are fast, but early M.2s were dogs as heat would cause sustained workloads to throttle down.
Not a problem with Samsung 950 Pro versions and NVMe.
I use sustained workloads as I stream GBs of data in real time.
For example, an entire String Ensemble 1st 2nd Violins, Cellos and all of their various articulations.
When I strike a key on my 88 note keyboard, I want plucked (pizzicato), more dynamic playing gives me bowed sustained sounds, etc.
Must have the fastest transaction times, must have long sustained streaming of data in real time.

Samsung 950 Pros are fine for this now as the excessive random read I/Os I need are addressed.
Sequential reads are easy and predictable, random gives the device a run for its money as it streams randomly and there's no way to predict which notes are next.
With the Samsung XP941 and SM951 this was not reliable as the throttling would kick in, and the 120mm Fan I used for direct cooling didn't matter.
I was concerned about using the same parts since these devices are pretty much the same pre NVMe, but the direct heat sink and firmware added make this a good device now.
So instead of a single 950/256gb I bought 4 x for my 1U servers and 2 for my live performance PCs.

My biggest gripe with M.2s is you have to find which SATA III Ports are disabled.
Most reviewers do not tell you which ones, or tell you the wrong ones, you must physically do this yourself.
Supermicro board only have 1 x PCI-e 4x available but they work fine on Z97 and H170/Z170.
ASRock have multiple M.2s and using more than 1 can be tricky if you plan on using other storage.

As far as a boot device there's no advantage in using M.2s.
No difference from a cheap ancient OCZ Vector 4 SSD w/ random reads @ 93k or a 950 Pro @ 150k.
Huge difference in benchmarks, which is what sells these devices to most folks.

If you need such rates and they assist in gaming, I cant help you out there.
I work these devices over really well, but that's because they respond to cached RAM buffers as targets then stream.

Big benefit too is they are just cool looking sitting there embedded in your board and have no frickin' SATA Cables cluttering up the place.

 

[SomeGuy133]

RAID 0 is not for speed. Its for capacity and reduced scanning time or anything that requires large reads. The latter is just aside benefit of having a single volume. I know people with 2-3 950 PROs RAID 0 and its only for capacity. No one actually does it for speed...its probably counter productive overall. (minus for scanning)

BTW any user manual should tell you which ports are disabled.

 

[jamesv]

Well they don't believe in such help at Supermicro, and the reviewers only mention they are disabled. But when building a server or PC you'll find out soon enough.
How did you ascertain which ports are disabled on your Extreme 6 board...?

I also have a 1U Extreme 6, only using the PCI-e 4x, the old Plextor M6 PCI-e 2x was moved over to a Z97 only capable of PCI-e 2x M.2s.
I read that manual and only saw auto_force switches, or the loss of eSATA or SATA Express which nobody uses.

Thanks, it would help when I add 4 x SSDs this summer. Right now it's just a 512GB Samsung 950 Pro with OS+Apps.


Cheerz

 

[SomeGuy133]

nothings disabled because i only have 1 M.2

I know my manual has everything documented because it even mentions that X SATA disables when eSATA is used.

 

[jamesv]

nothings disabled because i only have 1 M.2

I know my manual has everything documented because it even mentions that X SATA disables when eSATA is used.

SATA X is disbaled when eSATA is used....
But no mention of which SATA III port #s are being disabled when M.2s are being used.

I guess I can figure it out like the other builds with hit and miss diagnostics since it was Z97 days and some boards didn't even have UEFI.

The newer Z170 manuals from ASRock Extreme series show the ports being disabled in those manuals.
My Extreme 4 mATX shows the numbers reflected with PCB print on the board itself, referenced in the manual.

I'll figure it out. Got a 5.25" bay using an AMS 4 x SSD Cage I plan on filling up for summer gigs.

Cheers

 

[SomeGuy133]

SATA X is disbaled when eSATA is used....
But no mention of which SATA III port #s are being disabled when M.2s are being used.

I guess I can figure it out like the other builds with hit and miss diagnostics since it was Z97 days and some boards didn't even have UEFI.

The newer Z170 manuals from ASRock Extreme series show the ports being disabled in those manuals.
My Extreme 4 mATX shows the numbers reflected with PCB print on the board itself, referenced in the manual.

I'll figure it out. Got a 5.25" bay using an AMS 4 x SSD Cage I plan on filling up for summer gigs.

Cheers

i was saying i know for a fact it tells you about eSATA and i would assume it would state the same for M.2. I never bothered to look but if it goes into SATAExpress and eSATA i would assume it stats M.2. Does my Extreme 6 even have 2 M.2s? I dont even recall. ASRock has really good manuals so i would be surprised if it wasn't stated.

 

[ZodaEX]

RAID 0 is not for speed. Its for capacity and reduced scanning time or anything that requires large reads. The latter is just aside benefit of having a single volume. I know people with 2-3 950 PROs RAID 0 and its only for capacity. No one actually does it for speed...its probably counter productive overall. (minus for scanning)

BTW any user manual should tell you which ports are disabled.

But raid 0 reducing scanning times is for speed....... Reduced scan times are speedier.

 

[SomeGuy133]

But raid 0 reducing scanning times is for speed....... Reduced scan times are speedier.

i was referring to most cases RAID 0 in terms of 950 PROs have almost no speed benefits for most people. Only in rare work load cases does a RAID 0 actually makes a tangible difference. I my self would be hard pressed to find a benefit.