M-Audio BX8a good solution for <=500$ setup?

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raymondbeautrix

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I'm trying to decide on a speaker setup with a budget of about 500$. Right now, I believe I want a pair of bookshelf speakers. I was considering wharfedale diamond 9.2 or b&w 686, but then I would have to use my old beomaster 2000 25w amp and also purchase a DAC. Then I got an interesting suggestion to consider a studio monitor with built-in amp solution. If I understand correctly, this would also eliminate the need for a DAC.

I found the BX8a deluxe by m-audio on amazon for only 380$. This seems like an exceptionally good deal and I'm wondering why it isn't a more popular thing for gamers/audiophiles to do for a computer setup. I was also suggested to check out dynaudio products, but I couldn't find anything cheaper than $1000, which is overbudget.

Is there any other powered studio monitors, or other audio solutions I should be considering? Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ray
 
Ah good post. I would like to learn more about these things as well. Been reading on some of the popular bookshelf speakers. It seems like some of the more popular high end active bookshelf speakers include dynaudio BM6a, Adam A7 and some stuff from Genelec. I also heard good things about Paradigms and if one wants passive there is a whole boatload of them from companies like B and W, Sunfire, Mission, Tannoy, etc. Since I cannot afford any of them right now, I will not bother for the moment. Then for people like me, there are the KRK Rokit RP6 and 8, the M Audio BX8a, the Yamaha MS50 and 80, Axiom M3's (which spark my interest), Mackies, etc. These fall in the $300-$500 for a pair range. I have read that both the BX8a and the RP6 and 8 from KRK are punchy in their sound. Is this true? How are the Axioms or the Yamahas compared to these? I don't think you can find Axioms except online so anyone's input would be appreciated. I guess I will need to go visiting stereo stores soon though I would rather buy online.

Sorry for the hijack Ray, I just wanted to learn more about exactly the same thing you ask from the audio experts here at [H].
 
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audioengine a5. I've also heard good things about Mackie MR5, but never had a listen for myself
 
Whoops sorry, yeah the Audioengine A5 would be nice too. Too many nice speakers to choose from.
 
raymondbeautrix said:
Then I got an interesting suggestion to consider a studio monitor with built-in amp solution. If I understand correctly, this would also eliminate the need for a DAC.
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No, it wont. UNLESS the monitors in question accept a digital signal. If the accept a normal analog signal like MOST monitors, you will still need something to do the D to A conversion, whether that be an external DAC, or a nice 2 channel music oriented sound card like an M-Audio 2496.
 
Criccio, thanks for pointing that out. I've been recommended getting the M-Audio 2496. But could I, with the proper adapter, go from my 1/4" "green wire" jack from my audigy zs to a bx8a? Would the 2496 card give me dramatically better SQ? How would that work for gaming? Obviously, no EAX, cmss2, etc.

I'm still trying to learn about the trade-offs of active monitors. Is it substantial enough that maybe I should look into a decent budget amp and maybe a wharfedale diamond 9.2 or something? But if it's not really a tradeoff at all, the idea of an all-in-one solution for audio would be very enticing.

The dynaudio bm6a and adam a7 both look like they fall closer to the $1000 price range, which is probably out of my budget, though I might not rule it out completely. How are these compared to the bx8a, which I can get for only 350$? And how are these compared to a passive+amp system like the B&W 685?

Keep in mind that I am trying to manage without a subwoofer, at least initially. Maybe a 3-way is worth considering, or anything that can hold up decently with a good bass extension.

Thanks for the quick replies guys.
 
Yes, as far as SQ, the M-Audio card is a MUCH better match to a pair of quality studio monitors. In fact, I think you would be defeating the purpose of using the onboard audio's DAC with such nice monitors.

But yes, you can use it if you wish. Although the M-Audio card is relatively cheap @ $100.
 
Let me just make sure I'm not confusing myself. The green output on my audigy2 zs...is that considered 'digital' output, I.E. the soundcard's onboard DAC? Also, am I making any big sacrifices for gaming audio with the 2496? Again, that's not my biggest consideration but I'm just curious.
 
Well if its a digital output, it probably has not gone through a DAC since that would have converted it to analog. I have read that external DACs have better signal isolation but as always, the quality of the DAC I guess is the important thing. I hear the Maudio one is nice and you can get it at a decent price these days.
 
A lot of subs are active as well so if you get active speakers, you will be able to attach a sub so long as you have output for one. However this does bring up a good question. If you wanted to mix active and passive speakers, can you pass some of the signal out directly to the active speakers while passinge the others to an amp and then the passives? Would that make the sound unbalanced?

criccio said:
Yes, as far as SQ, the M-Audio card is a MUCH better match to a pair of quality studio monitors. In fact, I think you would be defeating the purpose of using the onboard audio's DAC with such nice monitors.

But yes, you can use it if you wish. Although the M-Audio card is relatively cheap @ $100.
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Criccio, would it be fair to say that with higher end speakers such as the M Audio speakers, you get a much better representation of the quality of signal coming out of a DAC? So if you were to use a bad DAC, a higher end speaker would actually better represent how bad it is?
 
I just noticed M-audio is about to release a new line of bookshelf speakers soon (q2 2009). http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/M-Audio-Introduces-New-Studiophile/story.aspx?guid={3FE67A1D-2B22-41C6-8B9F-00E1A3D7739F}

The cx5 is being offered now, but for a lot more than the MSRP. This is supposed to be a step up from the bx series at supposedly a similar price. Anyone else heard anything about these?

I just determined that these are actually a bit more expensive than I thought. It would be at least 600$/pair for cx5, and probably over 800 for the cx8. I think only the cx5 is available now. The BX8a is affordable with an 8" woofer, which seems like it might be the size of choice for me because I'm looking for a decent bass range. This guy seemed to really like them http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CX5/reviews/#anchor
 
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raymondbeautrix said:
Let me just make sure I'm not confusing myself. The green output on my audigy2 zs...is that considered 'digital' output, I.E. the soundcard's onboard DAC? Also, am I making any big sacrifices for gaming audio with the 2496? Again, that's not my biggest consideration but I'm just curious.
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The "green" 3.5mm jack is for the main L/R analog out. There should be a seperate jack labeled "digital out". Since I don't have that specific card in my hand, i'm not sure if that port does S/PDIF via a mini-TOSlink connector, or via a 3.5mm to RCA cable.

If you use any soundcards digital output, you are bypassing its DAC with intent on sending the unaltered digital signal to another DAC to do the D to A conversion. (DAC = digital to analog converter).

If you are even looking at studio monitors, then you are more into quality sound over gimmicky "gaming" DSP's, no? You will only have 2 speakers... so stereo is all you will get. That is more then enough if the speakers are good enough, which in your case they will be. The M-Audio 2496 + BX8a's would be a kickass stereo setup. :D


Zenshi said:
Well if its a digital output, it probably has not gone through a DAC since that would have converted it to analog. I have read that external DACs have better signal isolation but as always, the quality of the DAC I guess is the important thing. I hear the Maudio one is nice and you can get it at a decent price these days.
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Correct. The 2496 is a great card for stereo music and its only $100.

raymondbeautrix said:
Another thing I just thought of. With active monitors, does this mean I couldn't add in a subwoofer later?
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You can. You would need a powered sub with speaker level inputs and outputs. You would run cables from the DAC/soundcard (depending on which you get) to the sub, then out of the sub to the monitors. The sub's adjustable crossover will only play frequencies that you set it to. Usually you would set it somewhere between 100-80Hz and it will play anything below what you set it to.

Zenshi said:
A lot of subs are active as well so if you get active speakers, you will be able to attach a sub so long as you have output for one. However this does bring up a good question. If you wanted to mix active and passive speakers, can you pass some of the signal out directly to the active speakers while passinge the others to an amp and then the passives? Would that make the sound unbalanced?
Click to expand...

See above.


Criccio, would it be fair to say that with higher end speakers such as the M Audio speakers, you get a much better representation of the quality of signal coming out of a DAC? So if you were to use a bad DAC, a higher end speaker would actually better represent how bad it is?[/QUOTE]

Confusing question.. but I think I want to say yes. Bad DAC (like that in a crappy soundcard or onboard audio) + good speakers = crappy sound.
 
Criccio, thanks for the comprehensive response. It's been extremely helpful. I am certainly leaning toward the BX8a deluxe. The CX series is just coming out and hasn't had nearly enough time to come down lower in price. I could maybe stretch my budget to the CX-5 for 600$, but I can't tell if this would be a substantial upgrade over the 350$ bx8a. The one pro reviewer I've seen on this (linked in my last post) seems to think its 5" woofer can handle bass like a good 8" but so few people have sampled this product its hard to build a consensus.
 
You are going to be hard press to find someone with experience with both sets, and thats the only type of person you want to be taking opinions from.

The best advice anyone can give you when it comes to speakers is to go audition them yourself. Guitar Center always has a bunch of studio monitors setup for this purpose.
 
Quick question about the M-Audio 2496:

1. Does it support soundfonts for MIDI playback, or do they use some proprietary sample solution?

2. How poor is the gaming performance? Is it worse than your average on-board audio?

I'm thinking about picking this up to pair with my AV-40 monitors.
 
I don't even know what soundfonts are. :D

And gaming performance? What do you mean by that? It plays back the audio is stereo exactly like you would expect...

The idea that you need a "gaming" soundcard to increase FPS in games is an unfortunate relic back from the days when that was actually true.
 
I'm thinking of getting that M-Audio card, I've heard great stuff about it besides poor drivers for some OS.. was it XP?

Anyway I have M-Audio AV-40's and JVC HA-RX700 headphones, would the sound card be a good match up with those two? Music >>>>>>>> Movies >> Games.

I also really want that card so I can hook up my digital piano through MIDI.
 
I heard one of the m-audio monitors when I was at Guitar Center..maybe the bx5a's. I think I will go and try auditioning as much as I can directly, because I know there's no replacement for this. I'll give some feedback after I've gone, which hopefully I can do tomorrow.
 
criccio said:
I don't even know what soundfonts are. :D
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Soundfonts are a popular standard for MIDI synth samples. They are supported by all Creative sound cards, including my Audigy, and I use them for writing music.

There are other sample standards, but soundfont is one of the easiest to find.

It looks like I might be up a creek anyway, unless they add MIDI device switching in Windows 7. I'm currently on XP, but will be abandoning it next year when I upgrade.
 
I just wanted to bring up some more "food for thought". I've just gotten some feedback from a few people that have dealt with monitors that have an 8" woofer, 1" tweeter, and what I'm hearing is often there is a breakup between tweeter and woofer because the tweeter has trouble reaching down into the large 8" woofer's range. I've been told that a 6" woofer might actually give better results in this setup. Has anyone else observed this, or perhaps disagree with this claim?
 
raymondbeautrix said:
I just wanted to bring up some more "food for thought". I've just gotten some feedback from a few people that have dealt with monitors that have an 8" woofer, 1" tweeter, and what I'm hearing is often there is a breakup between tweeter and woofer because the tweeter has trouble reaching down into the large 8" woofer's range. I've been told that a 6" woofer might actually give better results in this setup. Has anyone else observed this, or perhaps disagree with this claim?
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Sure, it makes sense. This is the same reason you don't use a subwoofer to play mids - it just isn't a good match.

Hell, I don't understand everyone's fascination with size; unless you're planning on filling a very large room with sound, you don't need that much. The MAUDIO AV40s I have fill my room with sound, and they only have a 4" woofer.

Sure, you miss-out on lower bass ranges with smaller woofers, but the speakers make up for this partially via a good cabinet design (these have all the bass I need). Further, if you feel the bass is lacking, you can always add a powered sub.
 
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Comon man, there really isn't any reason to try and talk someone out of buying larger speakers...
 
Ok, I broke down and got the BX5a deluxe. I actually would have seriously considered an 8" woofer, but after doing measurements I found there wouldn't be nearly enough room on my desk. Even if I had enough desk space, after auditioning the BX8a I quickly found that I'd have to be at least 5 feet away which wouldn't work with my setup. I got them at guitar center, so I can take it back within 30 days if I'm not happy.

Here's my initial impression: WAY better than any computer speakers available regardless of price range. Exceptional detail in the highs and mids, and the bass is reasonably powerful with good tightness and control. The bass reaches down further than a thought it would, and it does quite well with the type of music I listen to (mostly classical, with some rock and electronic).

My only issue right now is what seems to be a slight harshness/edginess to the sound. This is with 0 burn-in time and I realize I can't make any conclusive judgments yet. To a very slight extent, I feel like I can't quite just relax and loosen my ears to fully enjoy the music. I'm going to do burn in for ~ 10 hours/day so I guess I'll reevaluate after about a week.

My guess is, this might just be "the nature of the animal" when it comes to studio monitoring. It's not supposed to sound "smooth" and "pleasant". In addition to waiting for the burn in, I'm going to try and find some standard bookshelf speakers to compare these against. I'm just worried that this might put me down the path of having to spend truckloads of money. From what I can tell, I probably can't get away with dropping less than 250$ on a halfway decent amp and then probably another 400 at least for a passive bookshelf speaker.
 
I would give your ears some time to adjust before you return the speakers. On the other hand, you're correct about studio monitors not sounding particularly pleasant, just really accurate.

As for amplifiers and passive speakers (and cables which are the "hidden" cost)... you could easily get a setup for under $400 total. But you would definitely have to hunt for it on CL and eBay and Audiogon. You would probably need to familiarize yourself with vintage models of speakers and amps. I know I could get a setup pretty easy. You could definitely easily get a retail sale (speakers, but for amps, you would need to buy used) for $400-$600 though.

If you wanted help finding an affordable passive setup, pm me your CL link.

raymondbeautrix said:
Ok, I broke down and got the BX5a deluxe. I actually would have seriously considered an 8" woofer, but after doing measurements I found there wouldn't be nearly enough room on my desk. Even if I had enough desk space, after auditioning the BX8a I quickly found that I'd have to be at least 5 feet away which wouldn't work with my setup. I got them at guitar center, so I can take it back within 30 days if I'm not happy.

Here's my initial impression: WAY better than any computer speakers available regardless of price range. Exceptional detail in the highs and mids, and the bass is reasonably powerful with good tightness and control. The bass reaches down further than a thought it would, and it does quite well with the type of music I listen to (mostly classical, with some rock and electronic).

My only issue right now is what seems to be a slight harshness/edginess to the sound. This is with 0 burn-in time and I realize I can't make any conclusive judgments yet. To a very slight extent, I feel like I can't quite just relax and loosen my ears to fully enjoy the music. I'm going to do burn in for ~ 10 hours/day so I guess I'll reevaluate after about a week.

My guess is, this might just be "the nature of the animal" when it comes to studio monitoring. It's not supposed to sound "smooth" and "pleasant". In addition to waiting for the burn in, I'm going to try and find some standard bookshelf speakers to compare these against. I'm just worried that this might put me down the path of having to spend truckloads of money. From what I can tell, I probably can't get away with dropping less than 250$ on a halfway decent amp and then probably another 400 at least for a passive bookshelf speaker.
Click to expand...
 
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