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Lowering my temps with apex

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DangerIsGo

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Messages
3,000
Is there anyway I can lower my temps with the apex kit installed? Here are a few things, would any of them work?
-remove IHS on chip
-Switch to Storm block (rev 2)
-lap block and/or IHS

Is there such a device thatll cool the liquid but also cool it below normal temps, like a refridgerant radiator? I am getting a load of 42 now and to me, thats not satisfactory. On a regular day, I could get 38 and still thats not that great (1.550v in BIOS, 1.53v in CPUz @ 2.7GHz) or is it? I dont think it is. I would like low 30's for load. is that possible w/ this kit/block?
 
1. Heatspreaders can get you maybe 6-8 degrees if you're lucky.
2. Storm will get you maybe 3 degrees.
3. Block is super shiny, and heatspreader is already pretty good.

Try:
-Re-work your loop so it goes pump > rad > cpu > gpu > res > pump.
-Thermal paste. Not too much, not too little.
 
Phase change, TEC, or super cooling. So what is your ambient with these temps? Do you have anything to compare them to on the same hardware?
 
General suggestions:
  • As said before, pump->rad->cpu->everything else.
  • Try to ensure you have as few tight turns as possible.
  • Update your Bios, if you have an old one, it may be reporting temperatures several degrees higher than usual.
  • Change the direction of your rad's fans (what are they going right now - are they blowing or sucking through your rad?), and remove any unneeded fan grills (which would be increasing noise and reducing airflow)
Otherwise, you may just have a hot 146 - what temperatures did you get before your apex kit?
 
They are blowing across the rad. I had my rad inside my case at one point and i get getting high 40's so I put it ouside and my temps lowered..fast. So i knew keeping it outside was best. I have some fan grills but do they really restrict flow? Are there fans w/out the thing in the middle like magnetically spun so theres no no flow in the middle of the airflow (im trying to say but its hard to explain)? Ill try to change the loop...see what that accomplishes. Its not the latest BIOS becuase the latest doesnt like something w/ my OC and I cant get anything stable. So i just keep what i have and i dont have any tight turns.
 
That reminded me:

With your radiator fans, it sounds like they're fine (grills do restrict the flow, but getting rid of them might only lower temperatures a degree, if that), but there is something more you can do if you have some old 120mm fans lying around. Your goal is to make a shroud for each fan by taking 1 old (you won't be using it as a fan again) 120mm fan, taking out its fan blades (take off the back sticker, and the little washer covering the shaft - there may be something covering the inside, remove it - then the fan blade assembly should come out), then attaching the gutted fan to your radiator, then your current fan on top.

This creates a shroud, and eliminates the dead spot on your radiator, where the center of your fan previously wasn't blowing onto. If you don't have any spare 120mm fans, you can easily make a shroud out of cardboard, tubberware containers, etc. - just about anything.
 
I redid my loop to pump -> rad -> cpu -> gpu -> res -> pump and if anything my GPU temps are lower! my CPu is still around that area (30C) but sometimes jumps down to 23C which is what i want..no matter which one its at, when at load it still hits 40 and i dont like it..no sir i dont like it. Ill try the shroud when i get stuff.
 
What are your temps in ur room. Are you running fan at ful speed?

Im thinkin of gettin same kit for my 146. an upgrade from my big typhoon. But at same volts and overclock im getting same temps. lower even, if i set fan upto full pelt.
 
The only two effective ways to significantly lower your temps are to decrease ambient temperatures at the radiator (sticking it in a bucket of ice water, cranking the AC), or improving waterblock contact with the core (since the Storm has a good finish your only real effective method here is removing the IHS).

As you have already seen, changing the loop order really doesn't do anything, that is because the watertemperature throughout the loop is damn near constant, maybe varying by 1 or 2 degrees from hottest to coldest. The pump at most is increasing the water temperature by a couple tenths of a degree centigrade. Why people continue to believe that the loop order matters is beyond me...I guess the same people who refuse to believe that 6mm tubing does have an impact on performance.

Also keep in mind that your motherboard could be reporting temperatures that are much higher than they actually are. Your temperature probe might consistently report temperatures as much as 5C higher than the real temp.
 
Yea..i heard that hot capacitors can increase the temperature the probe is reporting..
And the circuitry that reports the temps is not properly calibrated either (probably)
 
i've found that to me the case also with mobo temps....

i've got some pretty serious wcing gear on my XP chip and it still creeps up to 45C if the room is hot... funny thing is... if i put a 80mm fan over the NB and PWMIC(?) the CPU TEMP DROP RAPIDLY by like 4C... mobotemps = bunk

mal
 
malicious said:
i've found that to me the case also with mobo temps....

i've got some pretty serious wcing gear on my XP chip and it still creeps up to 45C if the room is hot... funny thing is... if i put a 80mm fan over the NB and PWMIC(?) the CPU TEMP DROP RAPIDLY by like 4C... mobotemps = bunk

mal
Click to expand...


Actually there is a good reason for that. About 10-20% of the heat from the processor is actually dissipated through secondary losses. This is mainly from the heat travelling through the traces and out onto the motherboard. So putting a fan at the motherboard would help dissipate those secondary losses better, and subsequently lower temperatures.
 
here's the thing: even with a storm waterblock, you're going to be lucky to attain load of 30 C, assuming a room temperature of about 20 C.

http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_storm-08.html

looking at the delta T for the block, you still have an excess of 10 C increase in temperature, even at the highest flowing end of the curve. add to that the delta T from rad to air, and you're still looking at temps in at least the 30s for an 80 W heat load. since you're overclocking, you're actually putting out more heat than that, and temps will be a bit higher still.

if you want things cooler, by all means switch to the storm. it's the easiest change to make, though expensive.

removing the IHS might help a little, might help a lot, might kill your proc. with a single 90 nm core like your 146, you run a greater risk of a core crush than other procs present. 130 nm and 90 nm dual cores, i don't think are all that worrisome, just the 90 nm single cores. don't misunderstand: there is a very real risk of killing the proc while taking the top off, however once it's off you should be okay with larger die sizes.

even if you do it sucessfully, you would have to un-seat your waterblock to move the computer safely. if it's a stationary PC, i suppose that it's not too big a deal, but keep all consequences of this choice in mind.

the other things to try are switching to a triple rad, with the joys that come with mounting the beast. i suspect that you could use the radbox on the middle fan.......but it makes it that much harder to remove your PSU when you want to work inside of your computer. improved performance, but a hassle, which is why i noted swapping the CPU block as the easiest way to improve temps a bit.

and, if you do the CPU block, and the rad........a second D5 and/or a used G5 block might be things to consider to take it that extra step into overkill territory.

at the end of the day, though........you don't really know what temp your proc is REALLY at. the onboard sensors could be totally out to lunch, as could the software. rather than looking at the temp and obsessing over it, cool the proc as well as you can afford to cool it, then push it as far as it is stable. don't worry too much about the specific temp, as long as you can say to yourself "that's the best that i can do, and being the best that i can do, it shouldn't hold me back unduely."

other wise known as: cool it well and then roll the dice. :)
 
you can do what im doing, building a waterchiller from an old window AC unit. I was toying with it the other day and put my rad half way down into the chiller and temps dropped to 20C idle 30C load within a few seconds. The trick is to stay above dewpoint so that you dont get condensation and fry something.
 
What if i lap my apogee? Will that help temps? RIght now its very shitty (swiftech 'designed in america' standards...you do the math) Is there a way to mount a small chiller to the rad to cool the loop?
 
DangerIsGo said:
What if i lap my apogee? Will that help temps? RIght now its very shitty (swiftech 'designed in america' standards...you do the math) Is there a way to mount a small chiller to the rad to cool the loop?
Click to expand...
highly unlikely. flatness is more important than high polish, and unless you got a bad one, that base is already flatter than you can make it, so you'll only distort it by lapping.

unless the base is rough to the point that you can feel the ridges and/or hear them when you scrape a fingernail over it, lapping is not going to gain you anything measureable, even assuming that you manage to keep things flat.
 
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