Low budget raid - need advice

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maverickso

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Apr 22, 2011
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Hello to all.. I see that you are all professionals here so I think I'm in the right place :). I got RAID0 2x500GB on two different hard disk models on integrated raid controller. That is all nobish I know now but I was happy with it :). Week ago one hard stopped working and goodbye all data. Now I am thinking about more secure way to do raid. I want to buy 4xHitachi Deskstar 1TB Sata2 hard disks and Areca ARC-1210ML raid controller and make RAID5. I must buy this controller becuse it is cheapest of all and I am really can't afford something more expensive. Tell me what u think about this combination and tell me what results will I have on hd tune test. I saw results of this guy Alamone http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1573971 so I wondered if I would have at least half the speed as he :). I am Windows 7 user and I dont need this for server or something like that, I just use pc for fun but I like speed :). I am open for all suggestions on maybe some other controller or some other advise. Sorry becuse of bad english :)
 
RAID just guarantees uptime of your data. It is not a secure form of backup by itself. If you want a backup of your data, you should be getting an external hard drive or NAS and make weekly or even daily backups to those devices. So if you're looking for actual protection of your data, RAID 5 isn't gonna help you here as it doesn't protect against malicious or accidental deletion, modification, removal, or corruption of your data.

In addition, you may not even get half the performance that Alamone got because he had a very fast and advance controller card that had an actual dedicated XOR engine. The card you're getting doesn't have a dedicated XOR engine so it's gonna be significantly slower than the the results Alamone got.

So in other words, what exactly are you looking to do here? Increase uptime and perfomance? or actual protection of your data? Or Both? Also what country are you in?
 
I would not want to use NAS becuse it is too expensive and as I said I'm low budget user, and because I want to boot the computer from the raid. I'm the only one who uses this computer and I want only security against mechanical failure as I explained above such a defect that happened to me a few weeks ago that I can't see my hard disk in bios at all. Means I want to ensure that my sistem can work if my one hard disk stop working or even two hard disks so I'm thinking about RAID10 but I see that RAID5 is faster and offers me security if one hard disk stop to work. I am from Serbia and when you type Areca in google.rs you will find the office furniture company in Belgrade:) lol. We are really retarded country:). I looked in the Netherlands and other countries has actually everything you wish for and they bring you home but here, forget it. All right then which card is the cheapest one with XOR engine? :). As I said I want speed and security, but only from hardware failures not from the deletion and stuff like that. What do you suggest than which controller would be best for me to have at least half results as Alamon?, I would be very happy with that also
 
Goddamn it. Made a mistake:

Sorry, that areca card you chose is a true hardware RAID card. Yes you should be able to get at least half the performance of the card that Alamone used with the card you selected

My mistake. Was thinking of a different card for some reason.
 
Any card that does ROC raid 5/6 performs XOR operations, it is the boolean logic term for what it is doing to the data that is being processed.
 
if they are true RAID then why would I have just half the performance that Alamone got? what is the difference?
 
maverickso said:
if they are true RAID then why would I have just half the performance that Alamone got? what is the difference?
Click to expand...

Well I did say "at least". The big differences is the version of the processors that the RAID cards uses. The processor used in the 1880 is far faster and newer than the processor used in the above cards.
 
4xHitachi Deskstar 1TB Sata2 hard disks and Areca ARC-1210ML raid controller and make RAID5
Click to expand...

Why not 2 2TB or 3TB drives in raid 1 (most motherboards now support that inherently).
If a raid 0 of older 500GB drives gave you sufficient performance for your task than most newer large drives should be just as good.

Since cost sounds like an issue that would definitely be the cheapest option.
 
I asked some people on local forums in my country and they told me that if you motherboard stops working that there is a possibility that the raid array would not work on other motherboard and to be honest I am very intrested on Areca cards and the speeds that they offer. I would like to use raid5 because of its speed and because of security if one hard drive stop to work.I think that I could somehow fit in to buy 4x1TB hard drives and think about some of the Hitachi models and I would buy the Areca ARC-1210 becuse that is only model that I can afford
 
The 1210ML requires an external enclosure. If you don't have one, it will be cheaper to get a card with internal ports. All Areca cards are hardware RAID except for the 1300 series. As for running RAID on your motherboard's ports, it isn't specific to one motherboard. If you get something with a similar chipset, the RAID array will still work if your motherboard dies.
 
Raid 1 should be readable on anything - so no issues there (readable as in the data is recoverable). As for speed - depending on your use case 2 3tb drives will give you the same usable space as 4 1tb raid 5 drives, and instead of the raid card you could buy a SSD for non bulk data.
 
you're right Blue I do not deny that but I would love to buy Areca controller becuse of the speed which is given in relation to the integrated controller. Well damn I did not know that about 1210 as I said I'm new at this. Blue which card do you recommend then?, becuse Areca is really out of my league. Must be below 250 euros that is about 170$ because I have not seen so much cheap Areca controller.
It is a good suggestion Chris, but my goal really is to get speed on the whole raid array and not just on the system disk. I think I could make that out with the Areca or some other controller in RAID5 which has a SSD drive when working alone means about 370mb / s read and 270Mb / s or maybe I'm optimistic :). So as I asked Blue and now you if it is possible to that much speed with the controller for 170$ and in does not have to be Areca maybe some other also good.
Stormy name of the game is low budget raid I need advice I think we are not off topic becuse everyone here is trying to help me and btw guys really thank you about great help and advices I am a newbee and I am really interested in this storage systems stuff :)
 
maverickso said:
you're right Blue I do not deny that but I would love to buy Areca controller becuse of the speed which is given in relation to the integrated controller. Well damn I did not know that about 1210 as I said I'm new at this. Blue which card do you recommend then?, becuse Areca is really out of my league. Must be below 250 euros that is about 170$ because I have not seen so much cheap Areca controller.
Click to expand...

Can you post any links to any online computer hardware stores that ships to your country? It's gonna be a whole lot better than us doing this whole "we recommend and then you tell us it's too much in your country" deal.


maverickso said:
I think I could make that out with the Areca or some other controller in RAID5 which has a SSD drive when working alone means about 370mb / s read and 270Mb / s or maybe I'm optimistic :).
Click to expand...
Just a FYI, despite some RAID5 arrays having the same or higher read, write, and transfer speeds as some SSDs, they're still gonna feel slow compared to an actual SSD in application response time since the SSD has significantly better access times and random read/write speeds.
 
what is FYI? on my motherboard GA-MA790X-UD3P on my integrated chip I had 180mb/s in RAID0 with 2X500GB so I would like to have 800mb/s but I know that is not possible for 170$ raid card :) so I would be very satisfied with 350mb/s
ok well I have sister in Netherlands so here:
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/...TiIUSqxPdIFWbW_uG4rOtRdErVIHLVTb5svGb0RprrfUD
or maybe better here becuse my friend bought some stuff successfully:
www.ebay.de
I have distant cousin in USA but I have not heard with him for years but I could contact him so maybe here:
www.ebay.com
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
You aren't going to see speeds like 800 MB/s on just a couple drives. You would need a bunch of drives in the array to get the kinds of speeds you are talking about. RAID cards will make the difference between RAID 0 and RAID 5 with the same disks smaller but they don't perform magic. You can't take 3 drives from years ago, stick them on an ARC 1880 and get 1.7 bazillion GB/s. You ultimately are limited by the aggregated speeds of the drives.
 
maverickso said:
what is FYI? on my motherboard GA-MA790X-UD3P on my integrated chip I had 180mb/s in RAID0 with 2X500GB so I would like to have 800mb/s but I know that is not possible for 170$ raid card :) so I would be very satisfied with 350mb/s
Click to expand...
FYI = For Your Information

180Mb/s with RAID 0 of 500GB drives? A tad low there actually considering that many new hard drives (Like the Samsung F3 1TB) can it 145Mb/s by itself. Now imagine those same drives in RAID 0.

Anyway, see if you can find the Areca ARC-1222 card for around your budget. If not, the Areca 1220 is a decent alternative.
 
i found this one for 180 euro that is 260$, I think this one is ok, I hope I will win :)
http://cgi.ebay.de/Areca-ARC-1260-R...80662640472?pt=Controller&hash=item4158cc0758
here are hard drives that I can buy here, I see Samsung F3, do you recommend something even better
HDD SATA2 5400 1.5TB WD Caviar Green WD15EARS, 64MB
HDD SATA2 5400 1TB WD Caviar Green WD10EARS, 64MB
HDD SATA3/SATA2 7200 500GB WD Caviar Blue WD5000AAKX, 16MB
HDD SATA2 5400 1TB Samsung EcoGreen F2 SAHD103SI, 32MB
HDD SATA2 5400 2TB Samsung Spinpoint F4EG HD204UI,32MB
HDD SATA2 5400 2TB WD Caviar Green WD20EARS, 64MB
HDD SATA2 5400 3TB WD Caviar Green WD30EZRSDT, 64MB
HDD SATA2 5400 500GB WD Caviar Green 5000AADS, 32MB
HDD SATA2 7200 1TB WD Caviar Green WD10EADS, 32MB
HDD SATA2 7200 1TB Hitachi Deskstar,32MB
HDD SATA2 7200 1TB Samsung SpinPoint F3 SAHD103SJ, 32MB
HDD SATA2 7200 250GB Samsung Spinpoint F4 HD256GJ,16MB
HDD SATA2 7200 500GB Hitachi Deskstar, 16MB
HDD SATA2 7200 500GB Samsung SpinPoint F3 SAHD502HJ,16MB
HDD SATA2 7200 640GB WD Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS, 16MB
HDD SATA3 7200 1TB WD Caviar Black WD1002FAEX, 64MB
HDD SATA3 7200 1TB WD Caviar Blue WD10EALX, 32MB
HDD SATA3 7200 500GB WD Caviar Black WD5002AALX, 32MB
sorry for paste here but you need password to get in and take a look here also
http://www.pinsoft.com/lang/sr/artikli.php?uid=bm9kZUlkPTI2NTc1Jm1lbnVJZD0w
 
maverickso said:
i found this one for 180 euro that is 260$, I think this one is ok, I hope I will win :)
http://cgi.ebay.de/Areca-ARC-1260-R...80662640472?pt=Controller&hash=item4158cc0758
Click to expand...

Good choice. But do your own research on that controller. Otherwise, you will be screwed if you have an issue with it. So do your research on it.
maverickso said:
here are hard drives that I can buy here, I see Samsung F3, do you recommend something even better
Click to expand...

Stick with the Samsung F3 drive. For future reference, don't use Western Digital drives OR anything that says "Green" in it for hardware RAID usage.
 
ok I will buy Samsung F3, hm could you check that card for me becuse I am still a noob in this field, plz :)
 
maverickso said:
ok I will buy Samsung F3, hm could you check that card for me becuse I am still a noob in this field, plz :)
Click to expand...

Not to be a dick, but considering the level of complicated tech and features with that card, you really should learn more about the card yourself by doing your own research. As I said, you will be totally screwed if you have an issue with it and you have no idea how to fix it.

So again, do research on it. I.e look up the manual for the card, look online for any potential issues with that card, what little notes or tips you should know about the card, etc. Otherwise, you will continue to be a noob in this field. A good source for info would be this very forum. Search for ARC-1260 here in this subforum
 
ok np I will do that. Really amazing how these F3 drives are so fast and they are not even SATA3 and less then 64MB cache. I did not know that they are so fast. Tell me something if I do not pass on auction I will buy hard drives first and I will make raid on motherboard so later when I get some money I will buy Areca so than can I just transfer array to Areca without wipeing all or I must do everything from the beginning
 
maverickso said:
Tell me something if I do not pass on auction I will buy hard drives first and I will make raid on motherboard so later when I get some money I will buy Areca so than can I just transfer array to Areca without wipeing all or I must do everything from the beginning
Click to expand...

You would have do everything from the beginning. AFAIK, Areca cards can't import/use RAID arrays made on AMD or Intel motherboards.
 
yes I thought so, ok then that is that 4x1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 32mb and Areca ARC-1260, thank you for all your help, I wll post results here in hdtune :). Oh yes and one more thing do you think that I should go with RAID5 becuse I read somewhere here in subforums that RAID5 is not so good for security, why not? I just want to be secure if one disk fail to work and I want speed
 
maverickso said:
so?
Click to expand...

We can't comment on that RAID 5 thing without seeing where you got that quote from in the first place.

With that said, RAID 5 by itself isn't 100% secure as your controller may "hiccup" or have an error during the RAID rebuild. At that point you may end up losing all the data.
 
ok no luck on ebay for arc-1260 so I will buy 1220 and I decided to buy 4x1TB Samsung F3 hard drives + 1X3TB connected on mb sata for backup so I can't decide to use RAID 10,6 or 5 for speed. This card got Intel RAID 6 Engine to support extreme performance RAID 6 something :) is that meen that raid6 will faster then 5 or 10?. If I buy 2x1TB more to have 6 disks will it make difference what to use 10,6 or 5?
 
maverickso said:
should I use RAID10 then? or maybe buy 5x1TB and use RAID6
Click to expand...
If you want speed, go for RAID 10. RAID 6 won't help.
maverickso said:
oh yes one more thing if I decide to go with 2TB drives, which do you recommend?
Click to expand...
Any Samung or Hitachi drive should do.
maverickso said:
ok no luck on ebay for arc-1260 so I will buy 1220 and I decided to buy 4x1TB Samsung F3 hard drives + 1X3TB connected on mb sata for backup so I can't decide to use RAID 10,6 or 5 for speed. This card got Intel RAID 6 Engine to support extreme performance RAID 6 something :) is that meen that raid6 will faster then 5 or 10?. If I buy 2x1TB more to have 6 disks will it make difference what to use 10,6 or 5?
Click to expand...
No it does not mean RAID 6 will be faster than RAID 5. If you buy additional drives, it may have a effect on which RAID type you want to use.

Just to make things simpler: Don't go for RAID 6. Now decide between RAID 5 and RAID 10.
 
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