nightelfmaster
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lolz
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Looks like ATi won again...
- Thread starter bobsaget
- Start date
Brent_Justice said:
After reading back through a bunch of other articles to make sure I know what I'm talking about...I see I misunderstood this whole thing...you're right...the platinum name didn't show up till after the plain "xt" name was tossed around...but nothing points to it being changed in reaction to Nvidia...I stand corrected...
-eMpTy
nightelfmaster said:
If you're looking for something to run todays games on the ATI cards are definitely faster...
Normally I would agree with you that PS3 games won't be out soon and you'll probably have a new card by the time games designed for PS3 come out...what I would like to point out however, is that games can be easily patched to take advantage of PS3...and PS3 will give you a significant performance boost when enabled in a game...
I'm going to buy a 6800 Ultra because I want a card that will continue to get speed boosts throughout the year...next year when ATI's next card comes out sporting PS3 capability it will crush the X800 in PS3 games...but my 6800 will still be putting up respectable numbers by comparison...and I only plan to drop $500 on a card every couple years...
-eMpTy
low-k is just insulating material put in the silicon, it cuts down on electricity leakage, (power going to waste by leaving the circuits and turning to heat) lowering heat and power usage, these changes allow the chip to be clocked higher within the same thermal/power budget. (if you need any proof, 9600pro= .13 volume process= 400MHz core, 9600xt= .13 low-k = 500mhz core on the same design)
eMpTy said:
You make some good points. Just remember this is the beginning of the "X" lines as Im sure its just the tip of the Iceberg for nVidia as well. Never the less, ATi is planning the release of the X880 and X880XT for November, although both will be PCI-E im sure the lack of features that are not in the X800 series will show up in the X880. I have heard no word on the plans for nVidia, which leads me to believe that there won't be another top of the line gaming card from then before Nov.
It all comes down to whats available today, as of right now. The 6800s arn't on the shelves at anystore that I've been to, or online for that matter. Where as I could walk into Best Buy and pick up an X800pro and in a couple weeks i'll be able to get an X800XT. In all honesty I would probally get the 6800U if I was able to find it. I also read that it would be priced around $600 at release?! im not sure if thats a correct figure but thats crazyness. $500 is my limit on a gaming card.
Also the added features that the 6800s have, by today's standards they are useless. Today's games don't have the codeing to support the new pixel shaders and etc, even if they get patched to support them, you not gonna see much performance boost or visual boost. Even your "next-gen" games won't utilize those new instructions and shaders. You probally won't see a game fully take avantage of the 6800s added crap until maybe 05-06. So buy the time that game hits, i'll have upgraded anyway, so that defeats the whole purpose of me getting it.
If the 6800U happens to hit before the X800XT, i'll get it, otherwise im giving ATi my money.
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eMpTy said:
CLock for clock AMD's athlon 64 3400 does more work than the 3.2C but that doesn't mean you ahve to drop the 3.2C to 2.2 to see that..
nightelfmaster
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whats the point of getting a video card so early? theres no point in staying on the bleeding edge...
nightelfmaster said:
finally, a voice of sensibility in all of this. but then again, on the intarweb you have bigger nuts if you have a higher 3dmark03 score.
if people were smart (which they're on average... not) they'd wait at LEAST two months after official retail release and purchasing them.
chrisf6969
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BTW, dont expect much of a speed increase from ATI with the x880. At 520Mhz they are pushing the limit for that type of core. Its like Intel and AMD hitting their limits with .13 process. .09 doesnt yield much more clock. I'm wondering if .11 will be better, maybe it wont push the circuits to the limit like .09 does.
I think Nv has a lot more headroom in this generation. Between drivers, increased clock speeds, and core tweaking, etc...
Where ATI has probably already tweaked the core and drivers (9700 pro -> 9800 pro -> 9800xt ->x800) all basically the same core. And 520Mhz is pushing it. So I doubt there will be much more headroom.
BTW, I've said it a few times... I'm waiting a 2-4 months and I'll probably be buying a 6800GT. (my prediction b/c I think the 6800GT will be the next ti4200/ti4400) great performance and features at a decent price.
I think Nv has a lot more headroom in this generation. Between drivers, increased clock speeds, and core tweaking, etc...
Where ATI has probably already tweaked the core and drivers (9700 pro -> 9800 pro -> 9800xt ->x800) all basically the same core. And 520Mhz is pushing it. So I doubt there will be much more headroom.
BTW, I've said it a few times... I'm waiting a 2-4 months and I'll probably be buying a 6800GT. (my prediction b/c I think the 6800GT will be the next ti4200/ti4400) great performance and features at a decent price.
Brent_Justice
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eMpTy said:
another assumption
just be careful with those
Brent_Justice
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nightelfmaster said:
maybe not for you, but that doesn't mean there isn't for someone else
HRslammR said:
If you wanna get all objective about it...you should just not play video games at all and spend your time meditating about how to make the world a better place...
Bigger, better, faster, more, and I want it right NOW...it's not a concept that can be explained...I want speed and I don't care how much it costs...sure I could save $80 if I waited for prices to come down...but then while I was waiting...I wouldn't have the newest video card on the markey...
-eMpTy
retardedchicken
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HRslammR said:
yea, for the people who want the 6800U because its costing almost $600 retail, and i dont think the 6800U will drop in price that fast either, because it needs more resources to make(larger size=less per wafer etc...)
the x800pro might drop incredibly in price really fast, yet it might not. just look at the memory field, i bought my sticks of Geil Golden Dragon for $78 at newegg, just a few weeks ago they were at $98
you can have your PS3.0, but ill trade that for PS2.0 and about $150...
eMpTy said:
well yeah, i mean if we really thought about it, we'd never buy computers. it's just trying to find the balance of it all. it just seems silly to blow 500-600 dollars just to have it NOW, when if you just wait a month or so they'll drop in price, that or the "super duper high end" cards come out. and etc. it's the people that ARE the ones who try and stay bleeding edge (on either end) are the really stupid ones, because it's a constant upgrade every time some new feature comes out.
but that's just me.
Tygerwoody
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ok... Tygerwoody has been sitting here listening to these stupid debates long enough.... what is wrong with wanting to be on the "bleeding edge"? I spend my tax refund on computer upgrades every year. Thats just what i do. I want the absolute best without getting stupid expensive(athlon FX and such). I want to be able to get on my computer and think "man... not many people are enjoying this game as much as i am"... it really is a good feeling believe it or not. I could go ahead and buy a 9800 pro... and yes i would be able to run the settings pretty high and be pretty happy.... but i will always have it in the back of my head "i could have better". I hate that feeling. Its human nature to want the best. I still have a ti 4600... yes the card sucks in my opinion... i should have upgraded a long time ago.... but from a ti 4600 to a 9800 pro? thats just not worth it... But thats just my opinion.
This round however is different. The x800 and 6800 are tremendous gains. Going from my 4600 to an x800xt(preordered) is going to be totally worth it. Enough to put a smile on my face. 9800 pro? nah not really. I probably will keep this x800 for a while... or will i? it all depends on how big of an improvement. People who upgraded from 9700 to 9800 pro or xt... were.. not very smart people IMO because it just wasnt enough improvement. But hey thats them. Everyone has their own scale of looking at things. My upgrades in gfx cards has been geforce 2 mx > Geforce 3 Ti > Geforce 4 Ti 4600 > and now to x800xt..... each and everyone of these upgrades has been tremendous... and gives me the wow factor i like.
Anyway I said my peice. I'm just sick of people saying "YOU ARE STUPID FOR WANTING THE BLEEDING EDGE". Well i guess im stupid. Stupid with 8aa and 16af in yo face.
This round however is different. The x800 and 6800 are tremendous gains. Going from my 4600 to an x800xt(preordered) is going to be totally worth it. Enough to put a smile on my face. 9800 pro? nah not really. I probably will keep this x800 for a while... or will i? it all depends on how big of an improvement. People who upgraded from 9700 to 9800 pro or xt... were.. not very smart people IMO because it just wasnt enough improvement. But hey thats them. Everyone has their own scale of looking at things. My upgrades in gfx cards has been geforce 2 mx > Geforce 3 Ti > Geforce 4 Ti 4600 > and now to x800xt..... each and everyone of these upgrades has been tremendous... and gives me the wow factor i like.
Anyway I said my peice. I'm just sick of people saying "YOU ARE STUPID FOR WANTING THE BLEEDING EDGE". Well i guess im stupid. Stupid with 8aa and 16af in yo face.
bountyhunter said:I don't recall ATi using that strategy. The FX line cards were always at higher speeds then the Radeon 9xx cards. nVidia is more likely to use the more numbers better thing due to all of it's transistors on the nV40.
Higher clocks doesn't mean ineficient, it's just using an advantage, which is a good thing. the geforce 6800 can't clock much higher because it will become outrageously hot. Kind of Like Presoctt
As far as i recall from reviews, the 6800 ultra actually runs cooler than FX5900. As to overclocking, jakup at nvnews managed to get his evga 6800 ultra up to 450/650....thats a damn good overclock.
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=29518&page=6
Vagrant Zero
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Why do people assume that the 6800U runs hot? Were they too busy to read other reviews as I remember quite a few of them mentioning the fact that the 6800U ran cooler than the 5950U? I fully expect the 6800U to OC a hell of alot better thant he XTPE [and early reports from people in possesion of retail cards supports this].
The 6800 ULTRA runs hot because it draws more power higher transistor counts means more resistance and the big huge heatsink it uses does indead prove it. That it clocked as low as 400 is proof just in itself. As you may have heard nVidia have major problem developing cores that do 450 on air...
Vagrant Zero
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oqvist said:
I love it when people use a justification for an argument that can be malisciously turned against them. Example:
The XTPE's turn into flamethrowers when they go a bit over the 530s.
And the 3 or so people over at nvnews who have managed to secure 6800Us have all hit 450 [some have even gone a bit higher].
A> Do you Own One?ANd have you actually tried to overclock one
?^Again do you own one?And have you overclocked them your self?
No i didnt think so so its all still PURE speculation until you have one in your own hands and its running at your Speculated overclock
@trapine said:A> Do you Own One?ANd have you actually tried to overclock one
^Again do you own one?And have you overclocked them your self?
No i didnt think so so its all still PURE speculation until you have one in your own hands and its running at your Speculated overclock
How can it be "PURE speculation" when people who OWN 6800's are telling us that they are able to overclock to these so called speculated overclocks. Are you telling us that something only becomes fact once we have experienced it for ourselves.....and therefore even if we owned 6800's and claimed that we had no problems overclocking, that would be mere speculation to everyone else who didnt own a 6800, unless of course they themselves owned a 6800 and had overclocked it themselves.
The stupidity of your logic astounds me
The stupidity of your logic astounds me ! As one of the very (FIRST
)things you learn in overclocking is You never know how much overclock one will get, until you get said part in your hands and actually overclock it yourself?Now if you had half a brain you would know that?As you can speculate all you like but until you have the part yourself thats all it is speculation on your part?
Take the 2.4c for instance One person says i get 3.6 then another so everyone got one expecting to get 3.6 out of them?But alot of people could only reach 2.9 to 3.0 max!
Just because a reviewer or someone on the net can get 40 to 100 meg overclock out of there card is not a dead cert that you are going too attain them results
mewannafastpc
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bountyhunter said:
I have a 500watt PSU
for overclocking
@trapine said:The stupidity of your logic astounds me ! As one of the very (FIRST
Now if you had half a brain you would know that?As you can speculate all you like but until you have the part yourself thats all it is speculation on your part?
Take the 2.4c for instance One person says i get 3.6 then another so everyone got one expecting to get 3.6 out of them?But alot of people could only reach 2.9 to 3.0 max!
Just because a reviewer or someone on the net can get 40 to 100 meg overclock out of there card is not a dead cert that you are going too attain them results
We're not speculating on likelihood of a specific purchasers ability to overclock, but the liklihood of being able to overclock in general terms. For example, the 2.4C "generally" overclocked very well, but of course that is subject to the proviso that there may be outlier chips that dont overclock as well as the norm. As opposed to prescott cpu's that "generally" did not overclock very well according to the general consensus of benchmarks that were posted. Now according to people who own retail boards of the 6800, they generally have not had any problems overclocking their cards. Thus there is a general consensus at this point that the 6800 overclocks quite well, no one is disputing there may be cards that wont overclock, that goes without saying and is luck of the draw.
PhyberOptik
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I think the Geforce will make the best workstation card but ATI will still make the best gamer's card .
(an anyone say "Geforce Quadro III 1Gb DDR"?"
(an anyone say "Geforce Quadro III 1Gb DDR"?"
if i borrow from your logic!Then the X800Pro is currently by far the best overclocking card available.
As most people who have got one are reporting excellent overclocks.But again until 6800 is out an properly available to the public(Not reference based cards ) then we really wont know which card is the best overclocker money can buy?
As most people who have got one are reporting excellent overclocks.But again until 6800 is out an properly available to the public(Not reference based cards
) then we really wont know which card is the best overclocker money can buy?@trapine said:if i borrow from your logic!Then the X800Pro is currently by far the best overclocking card available.
As most people who have got one are reporting excellent overclocks.But again until 6800 is out an properly available to the public(Not reference based cards
I dont know if you can say that its by far the best overclocking card available, you would need to look at how other cards overclock relative to it, but from what ive read i think its fair to state that the x800 pro generally does overclock well.
retardedchicken
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in particular the Visiontek ones