Looking to Upgrade from SyncMaster 193p+

T

tenub

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
355
I've had this 193p+ for quite a while now (over 5 years) and am looking to upgrade to a larger screen. Don't get me wrong, I love everything about this monitor, but I would really feel better delving into the 1920x1200 resolution. This 1280x1024 just does not to me justice in most games. I love the colors on this thing and how it can be viewed at any conceivable angle with little to no loss in image quality. Yeah the greys may shift a bit if I'm looking straight down or far to the side, but the color still remains rich and vibrant to my eyes.

My point is, I'm looking for something of similar quality that doesn't break the bank (under $400, preferably $250-300 range) whose native resolution is 1920x1200. What I would like to avoid is one of those horrible TN monitors that mangle all colors beyond recognition when viewed at a slightly different angle (ie. I want to be able to play a game as I am able to now on my 193p+ while still being able to watch a movie or something from the couch whose viewing angle is different than my desk without having to adjust the screen).

I first looked at the U2410 and ZR24w, but they're slightly more expensive than I'm willing to pay and I simply don't know if they'll provide the same quality that my current monitor does. I've also looked at the U2310 and the ZR22w as well as countless other monitors. The NECs seem like they would provide the best color but are quite a bit too expensive for me and I just don't know how well games like TF2, WoW, and CS 1.6 will play on these IPS monitors. I'm really leaning toward the U2310, but then again I was really hoping for a 1920x1200 native resolution screen rather than a 1920x1080 one (I read in multiple places that the former is better as a computing screen rather than a movie viewing screen).

I'm sure there are a plethora of monitors out there that would suit my desires, I'm just a bit lost as to what would be a great choice. That's where you come in!
 
I have the u2311h (which what I assume you meant) and I find it fine for TF2 (do not play WoW or CS 1.6 so cannot tell you). From my experience, since I compared vs. faster 2ms overdrive TNs, I did not feel there was a significant real world difference in terms of response time (which I assume is your main concern). I basically ended up choosing this monitor as it was comparable to the strengths of similar priced TNs (response, input lag, contrast, price) that are important when choosing a monitor for gaming. While also providing advantages in areas outside of gaming (color, viewing angle, adjustable stand) for when I do other stuff on my PC.

In my opinion the only issues you run into going with the u2311h are quality (I did not have this problem), lack of hdmi input (trade off is a displayport input), it is a matte screen (if you prefer glossy), and worse viewing angles compared to a TN in a dark room with a black screen due to the worse off angle glow on eips screens (though from a real use perspective, I'm not sure when you'd run into this scenario).

The only improvement I can see in gaming would be going to a 120hz TN as they can display more frames over 60 and even faster then 2ms TNs in terms of response. But I did not for several reasons, they were at a higher price point. They had worse color performance then even some regular TNs. There was also the potential earlier adopter issue, for instance ATIs Open3D apparently will not work with current 120hz monitors. From a pure gaming perspective, these are worth looking into if you keep some of these disadvantages in mind, since they excel at motion performance without lacking in contrast and input lag.
 
So Samsung does not make a newer model similar to the 193p+ but with a larger screen and higher resolution? One would think that they would have say a 22, 23, or 24 inch monitor on the market with similar PVA technology or better and that is much less costly (since we all know how quickly the price of most new technology depreciates exponentially over time). I really don't feel like shelling out the cash for a completely different and possibly inferior technology/brand and having to pay repeated shipping costs to receive a non-faulty unit (talking the U2311H).

Are all TNs really that bad? I'm still quite lost as to which monitor to choose.
 
Samsung has a C-PVA series of monitor, the F2380/M/MX. It is 23 inch, 1920x1080. I tried this monitor as well, and the only reason I did not go with it was due to its response time. I felt it was significantly slower in certain situations that made the game not enjoyable for me visually. Your mileage may vary though, for instance NCX finds the response time fine for his use.

But again my u2311h, I did not find a need to return it. I even did a test with color sampling in photoshop off of camera shots to make sure there was no tinting issues. The u2311h I heard may be on Rev01 panels now, so I don't know if quality has improved or not?

TNs are not really bad for gaming/multimedia. I mainly notice the difference during other uses (web browsing, image viewing/editing). You can also notice differences if you say stop in a game to look and take in the scene. But say if you're actively playing the game in question, I do not think it would be apparent since you would not be focused on colors/details.
 
tenub said:
So Samsung does not make a newer model similar to the 193p+ but with a larger screen and higher resolution? One would think that they would have say a 22, 23, or 24 inch monitor on the market with similar PVA technology or better and that is much less costly (since we all know how quickly the price of most new technology depreciates exponentially over time). I really don't feel like shelling out the cash for a completely different and possibly inferior technology/brand and having to pay repeated shipping costs to receive a non-faulty unit (talking the U2311H).

Are all TNs really that bad? I'm still quite lost as to which monitor to choose.
Click to expand...


Maybe you should consider saving up for an S-PVA display like the Samsung 275T? It's 946$ though at NCIX

Review:
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2007/review-samsung-275t.html#Introduction

There is also the Ezio EV233 which uses a C-PVA panel and has the highest ANSI contrast ratio of pretty much any display except the Kuro KRP-500M, it's around 700$ online.

Review
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-eizo-ev2333wh-bk.html


TN panels are fine except for the viewing angles, maybe reposition your set up and get the Acer G245H for 250$, it is a better display than the Dell U2311 except for super low Delta E values (only obtainable via Calibration) and viewing angles

Review:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1035834696&postcount=16

Compared to the top Rated TN the Samsung PX2370 (Acer is noticeably better). I have purchased 2 G245H's, both have been perfect and have have very good screen uniformity and no backlight bleed.
http://wecravegames.com/forums/show...aming-Panel-Comparison-x9&p=173571#post173571


I'm actually using 2 PVA displays right now, the S-PVA Samsung 275T and C-PVA Samsung F2380MX (Canada only) . I also own the Acer G245H and plan on selling the 275T because it's barely better than the G245H and I don't care about viewing angles/size because I sit at a desk (plus I'm sure I can get a good price).

limitedaccess said:
Samsung has a C-PVA series of monitor, the F2380/M/MX. It is 23 inch, 1920x1080. I tried this monitor as well, and the only reason I did not go with it was due to its response time. I felt it was significantly slower in certain situations that made the game not enjoyable for me visually. Your mileage may vary though, for instance NCX finds the response time fine for his use.

But again my u2311h, I did not find a need to return it. I even did a test with color sampling in photoshop off of camera shots to make sure there was no tinting issues. The u2311h I heard may be on Rev01 panels now, so I don't know if quality has improved or not?

TNs are not really bad for gaming/multimedia. I mainly notice the difference during other uses (web browsing, image viewing/editing). You can also notice differences if you say stop in a game to look and take in the scene. But say if you're actively playing the game in question, I do not think it would be apparent since you would not be focused on colors/details.
Click to expand...

I always notice the streaking on the MX but love the essentially unrivaled PQ and extremely low input lag so it doesn't bother me at all. Some things run perefectly with no streaking (Lost Planet 2, some movies) while in others games/movies it's very noticeable.
 
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The G245H seems like the clear winner for me, but the 1920x1080 resolution is really boggling my mind. I would give my left nut for a 1920x1200 resolution version if it really is as the reviews claim.

What really lets me down is that there is no PVA out there at 1920x1200 native resolution that is similar to my current 193p+ at a reasonable price. At least from my searching and of the screens posted here.

Maybe I'll just stick with my current monitor and cry myself to sleep. But first I will shake my fist to the heavens and ask my god why he allowed the 1080p trend to seep into the computer monitor market.
 
tenub said:
The G245H seems like the clear winner for me, but the 1920x1080 resolution is really boggling my mind. I would give my left nut for a 1920x1200 resolution version if it really is as the reviews claim.

What really lets me down is that there is no PVA out there at 1920x1200 native resolution that is similar to my current 193p+ at a reasonable price. At least from my searching and of the screens posted here.

Maybe I'll just stick with my current monitor and cry myself to sleep. But first I will shake my fist to the heavens and ask my god why he allowed the 1080p trend to seep into the computer monitor market.
Click to expand...

Most content is 16:9 these days so a 1080p display is benificial, the letter box bars during films will be smaller, lessening the chance of noticing backlight bleed and just having wasted space. Sure you loose some desktop/game space, but this shouldn't matter for the clear upgrade in picture quality. That's how I look at it, and I used to use a 24" 1200p display. I'm glad it's gone.

If you really want a PVA display save up for the 275t or Ezio. Either display will be worth the wait, or get the Acer maybe and have a dual display set up?

Oh there is also the S-PVA Samsung 245T (24" 1200p), but they are very hard to find and have high input lag. Fujitsu also makes a 24" 1200p display but those are Europe/Asia only I believe.
 
I'm reviving an old thread here, but I'm in the same situation. I have an older Samsung 193P+ that I love, but want to upgrade to a monitor that supports at least 1920x1080, though I would prefer 1920x1200. I don't have room for anything larger than a 24" monitor.

I recently purchased a Dell U2311h based on positive reviews, but compared to my 193P+ the quality is terrible. Viewing angles are absolutely horrible. Just viewing the screen from a standing position results in images that completely wash out in a dark haze. Moving to either side is almost as bad, though it's slightly worse from the left than it is from the right. Not to mention, it took me two days of experimenting with brightness and contrast settings to find something that didn't feel like I staring into the sun all day.

My 193P+ is perfect, I can view it from nearly any angle with practically no degradation of the image. I thought IPS was supposed to be a step-up, but everything I'm reading in my research and first hand experience leave me disappointed.

I thought I found what I was looking for with the NEC LCD2490WUXi2-BK, only to find out the "improved" version 2 is missing the polarizing feature and looks as bad as most other IPS panels (IPS glowing and whatnot).

Does anyone make a 1920x1200 S-PVA anymore for under $700 (available in the USA)?

I only need a single DVI input, and don't do any gaming. Other than general office apps and web surfing, my primary need is accurate color for editing photos and HD video.
 
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