Looking to make the leap into higher end audio. Need advice.

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ebs5049

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
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429
Hi all

I'm currently using an asus xonar dg with m JVC HARX700s. The upgrade over my onboard audio was somewhat noticeable but I'm looking for something better now.

I use my headphones anytime I game. I'll also use them when I'm listening to music while I do paper work. However, I still use my desktop speakers when I'm watching a movie or moving around in my room.

From what I've been reading up on, since I use mostly my headset, a DAC/AMP combo seems the way to go. Trouble is, I have no experience with any of the products I've been looking at to know which one to get.

I'm not trying to break e bank, but I want quality too. The Schiit modi/magni combo is real at the upper limit of my price point. I was also looking at the audioengine d1 and the FILO E10.

Portability really isn't a concern. I want this only for my desktop.

I also plan on upgrading my headphones. Maybe to something like a pair of ATH-A700X.

Am I going about this he right way? Is the dac/amp combo best for my need or should I invest in a high end sound card?

Thanks!
 
My advice: DON"T DO IT!!!

Many years ago, I was where you are now. I made the fateful decision to upgrade a perfectly good sound system and it turned into a nigh-endless cycle of ever more expensive audio purchases. I've dropped thousands on receivers, speakers, headphones, etc. over the years. I wish I never found the Computer Audio section here on [H].

"If once you start down the dark path of computer audio upgrades, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did so many of us..."
 
Tyler-Durden said:
My advice: DON"T DO IT!!!

Many years ago, I was where you are now. I made the fateful decision to upgrade a perfectly good sound system and it turned into a nigh-endless cycle of ever more expensive audio purchases. I've dropped thousands on receivers, speakers, headphones, etc. over the years. I wish I never found the Computer Audio section here on [H].

"If once you start down the dark path of computer audio upgrades, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did so many of us..."
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‘Tis true. I purchased an AccessVirus a while ago and needed a good DAC with ADAT capabilities to route all of the channels into my sound card. I had an EMU1212 that was about 10 years old that worked perfectly, but once I tried ADAT for the first time on that card, I could not even get it to work. After shopping around, there really aren’t too many PCI-e cards out there on the market for what I needed it to do without shelling out some serious coin. Eventually I picked up a RME AIO Hammerfall, costing me a kidney on the black market. Even then, I ended up spending another pretty penny on my DAC to modify it to raise the frequency ceiling.
 
The Modi/Magni combo is kind of amazing for the relatively little amount of money you're spending.

I even paired the Modi with the next step up amp in the Asgard 2, and it's been great. Schiit makes some good gear.
 
Is there any advantages of having a dac with a spdif input rather than just using usb?
 
ebs5049 said:
Is there any advantages of having a dac with a spdif input rather than just using usb?
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It's a lot easier to get access to ASIO support over a SPIDF input. Generally, it just works. With USB devices a lot of them don't do it at all.

I have no idea if it can be done with the Modi, personally, as I've just never felt the need.
 
well.. starting down the upgrade path can be expensive ...but it can be super fun also.

it doesn't necessarily have to be expensive ... I own a bunch of gear but with a few select pieces only I could / do have very good sound for very little monies.

used gear can be a great way to save some money... my favorite headphones I own currently my Beyerdynamic DT770 PRO 80's I found used at GC for $80~ (they sell new for over $200 for the 80ohm version

http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-770-PRO-80-ohms/dp/B0016MNAAI

so even figuring the $30~ for a new set of ear pads quite a savings verse buying new.


the aforementioned Modi / Magni combo from schiit would be a very nice way to go and not very expensive @ $200

however if you have some space there is another option I have a number of vintage receivers / amps / preamps and integrated amps. While many modern AVR's have very subpar headphone sections many vintage amps have very very good headphone sections and can drive most headphones very well.


for example I use frequently for my headphones a Yamaha C-60 preamp I paid $20 for this unit and i have it hooked up the the onboard optical out on my motherboard with a inexpensive dac like so

http://www.amazon.com/D03K-Digital-..._5?ie=UTF8&qid=1389297014&sr=8-5&keywords=dac


here is the C-60 (center with door open)



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

so that is basically under $50 and with this I can drive just about any headphones pretty well.


headphone wise if you have stores like Guitar Center near you, you should be able to go check out some cans and get an idea what you like...

i went from HA-RX700 to nicer headphones a while ago, I own currently the DT770s previously mentioned , ATH-M50, Takstar HD5500, Pioneer SE-A1000 (and I still have my HA-RX700s). I really like pretty much all of these but I really do like my DT770s best of all..
 
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Schitt combo is great for the money. The AD700 is old and not hifi imo. Get something decent by Sennheiser, AKG, or Beyerdynamic. My Sennheiser 558s were $110 on amazon. Used like new condition. That would be a great budget deal.
 
For a Beyerdynamics 770, what difference would I see going from 250 ohm to 32 or 80? Let's assume I was using a Schiit setup
 
hi... i wouldn't go w/ the 32ohm version because i think the sq suffers on that model.

w/ the amp (or honestly without a amp the 80ohm is good....) the 250ohm or 80ohm models would be great, The SQ is going to be pretty comparable with the PRO 80s having a bit more bass perhaps.. (the pro 80's have a bit of a bass head reputation).

the 250ohm model has coiled cord vs straight cord on the 80.

if buying new the 250 is a lot cheap $160~ vs $230 for the Pro 80s soooo if i was buying new I'd grab the 250's if i knew I was going to have a amp... the downside is you may not be able to drive them very well with your phone or whatnot if you decide you want to take them out and about (not honestly the best headphones for going out and about with anyways don't fold and relatively good sized.)


in my case the main reason I chose the Pro 80 was finding the very very nice pair used at Guitar Center for $80~ , I wasn't going to complain about impedance for the money.
 
I would also advice not to start spending money on dacs etc. unless you have 800+ dollar headphones already.

And if you don't have 800+ dollar headphones already, think twice before investing to them. Most people get way more satisfaction from a decent 2 channel hifi setup. Headphones are horrible as they constrict movement, become uncomfortable on long sessions and can't produce a realistic sound stage like good speakers can.
 
B00nie said:
I would also advice not to start spending money on dacs etc. unless you have 800+ dollar headphones already.

And if you don't have 800+ dollar headphones already, think twice before investing to them. Most people get way more satisfaction from a decent 2 channel hifi setup. Headphones are horrible as they constrict movement, become uncomfortable on long sessions and can't produce a realistic sound stage like good speakers can.
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This sounds a little extreme. That no equipment is good at all unless I buy the absolute best, most expensive equipment.

I have no problems with headphones. I use the ones I have now about 75% of the time I do anything on my computer.
 
B00nie said:
I would also advice not to start spending money on dacs etc. unless you have 800+ dollar headphones already.

And if you don't have 800+ dollar headphones already, think twice before investing to them. Most people get way more satisfaction from a decent 2 channel hifi setup. Headphones are horrible as they constrict movement, become uncomfortable on long sessions and can't produce a realistic sound stage like good speakers can.
Click to expand...

I don't quite agree with the $800+ number, as I feel even a relatively inexpensive DT880 or HD600 can take advantage of a better source. But I do agree that the DAC should be one of the last things upgraded. Even onboard these days is usable.
 
450 said:
I don't quite agree with the $800+ number, as I feel even a relatively inexpensive DT880 or HD600 can take advantage of a better source. But I do agree that the DAC should be one of the last things upgraded. Even onboard these days is usable.
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That was exactly my point. Quantatively speaking the most marginal improvements you can get is usually D/A conversion and after that amps.

Only if you have some really sub-par or incompatible setup with your headphones there's usually need to start messing with that side before getting way serious with the head-fi. I can see people who use Stax etc. can invest into amps and dacs, but I don't see the point in mid level headphones for example. You get more value for money by upgrading the headset in 90% of cases.

If I was going to invest, say, 1200 dollars now to new hifi equipment I would probably buy a pair of Kef LS50s instead of headphones + dac. That is if I already didn't own a pair of full range electrostatics :D I've always been leaning towards a good 2.0 or 2.1 setup instead of head-fi or surround.
 
Well I pulled he trigger on a schiit modi/magni combo. Haven't decided on headphones yet.

Fry's has Senns 598s on sale for 150. But I'm not a big fan of open cans.

Edit. My reasoning for not liking open air is because
1. My roommates are noisy. Open would let in external sound, no?
2. My zalman clip on mic is sensitive. Whenever I on Skype, whoever I'm talking to hears everything I hear. Wouldn't they pick up sound leakage?
3. If I use these on my receiver in my living room, I prefer the isolation.

Is the drop off in positional quality between open and closed that big?
 
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ebs5049 said:
Edit. My reasoning for not liking open air is because
1. My roommates are noisy. Open would let in external sound, no?
2. My zalman clip on mic is sensitive. Whenever I on Skype, whoever I'm talking to hears everything I hear. Wouldn't they pick up sound leakage?
3. If I use these on my receiver in my living room, I prefer the isolation.

Is the drop off in positional quality between open and closed that big?
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1. Yes. I own a set of great sealed headphones specifically for this reason.
2. It's possible, but pretty unlikely unless you're listening at damaging volume.

And for the last question, that depends heavily on the individual pair of headphones. There are closed headphones with decent soundstage, but the absolute best soundstage possible in closed headphones will not compare with a really high quality pair of open headphones.

On the other hand, there are also some open cans with a narrow kind of crappy soundstage.

It just depends on what you buy. Do your research! Assuming you're going to do some gaming (are you?) I like and agree with a lot of Mad Lust Envy's Gaming Headphone Guide from Head-Fi. It's entirely subjective of course, but his notes on soundstage and positional accuracy are pretty dead on with my own experiences for the 8 or so pairs of headphones in his guide that I've used.
 
I doubt the 598s would be an issue. I cant hear my wife yelling at me sometimes with mine on. however, beyerdynamic 770 80 or 250 ohm would be a pretty decent closed gaming headphone.
 
spaceman said:
I doubt the 598s would be an issue. I cant hear my wife yelling at me sometimes with mine on. however, beyerdynamic 770 80 or 250 ohm would be a pretty decent closed gaming headphone.
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That's called selective hearing and has nothing to do with your headphones :D
 
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