Looking into a 4P E5-4650 system, have a number of questions

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Zagen30

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You guys certainly seem to be the experts on MP folding systems, hence why I registered here to ask about them.

I found a really good deal on 4 used E5-4650, but I've never attempted an MP build before and am somewhat hesitant to spend that kind of money. The deal's almost suspiciously good ($850 each), but that could be because they're Engineering Samples. The seller does have a very good sale history (an eBay score of 5627 with 99.8% positive feedback).

I looked around and saw that you're not allowed to put up ES's on the FS/FT, but that's not what I'm planning to do and I didn't see anything explicitly saying they couldn't be mentioned at all (though Rule 15 regarding copyrights/TOS/NDAs could apply here). If I'm wrong on my interpretation, I apologize.

So, how concerned should I be over that deal? Are there any oddities regarding ES's that I should know about?

The only 4P LGA 2011 mobos I saw were by Supermicro, the X9QR7-TF+ and the X9QRi-F+. I do realize that they're both at least a grand. Does anyone know of any other 4P 2011's out there? Newegg doesn't even have the Supermicro's and from looking at their websites it appears that Intel, Tyan, and Asus don't even make quad-socket 2011 mobos at all. I wouldn't expect any that I've missed to be that much cheaper, mind you, I'm just wondering if there's a larger selection than just the two I found.

A major concern I had is what enclosure I'd be able to use. They're both super-large proprietary form factors; the X9QR7-TF+ is 16.8"x16.4" and the X9QRi-F+ measures 17"x17", which I know is much bigger than even a 4P G34 mobo. I saw the case recommendations in the 2P/4P thread, but they were all designed for a normal form factor; would they even have enough space for one of these without some serious modification? Are there any other cases that would be able to fit something this large?

I'm somewhat wary of leaving it naked, since I live in an apartment that doesn't exactly have a great spot for something like that.

Memory shouldn't be a problem, since it seems like the best solution is to just populate each slot with 1 or 2 GB desktop memory sticks that are as fast as the motherboard supports.

Does anyone know what size power supply I'd need for this? From other 4P builds it seems like an 850W PSU is more than enough. I do, of course, realize that my power bill would shoot up a fair amount (currently I've got a dedicated i7-930 pulling 230W and a box with an i7-3770K & 2xGTX 460s pulling about 360W; I'd certainly shut down the 930, maybe cut back on the other one).

Can I assume that there's no weirdness in the server 2011 sockets, and that any normal 2011 HSF would fit without any difficulty? That, of course, assumes no issues with the size of the case.

Also, my internet speed could be something of a concern. I've got a Cox 25 Mb/s down/ 2 Mb/s up connection, and I don't really have any better options in my area, nor am I particularly motivated to pay an extra $35/mo to upgrade to their top-tier 50/5 service. Would that slow an upload speed be a significant enough factor? I forget how large bigadv results files are. Of course, considering how quickly this would chew through the work, the upload time would likely be worth it anyway.
 
FYI - there's a pretty good chance that ES chips won't work in those supermicro boards. You could maybe get them to work if you found a very early bios version for the board (like an early beta/pre-production). As far as enclosures go supermicro should list their own recommend chassis on the motherboard pages. They won't be cheap but might be your only realistic option.

Normal lga2011 coolers should work (assuming they fit in whatever case you get) and also assuming there's enough clearance between the sockets.
 
Don't worry about the upload speed for your net connection, i manage -bigadv on a 2mbit down/384k up.
Bigadv file sizes run to ~225mb so i upload in an hour and a half, you would upload in less than 30minutes at full speed.

Reagrding cases, spotswood does a semi open case/bench that sems pretty big and customisable - he may be able to work something out for you.

As for the chips themselves, "extra spicy" is how we usually describe them and you will be very limited for boards. Asus don't make anything bigger than a 2p and even tyan haven't released a 4p lga 2011 yet - intel may have but i still wouldn't bet on bios support for teh chips. LocoLaptop used to be able to do custom bios but i don't know if he still does.

Other than that if you can get them to work they would be great, many users on here have used spicy chips with no problems - i currently have 2 pairs of L5640's folding away
 
Doesn't the server boards need modifying to fit standard hsf? AS my asus has the threaded backplate, so to use a standard cooler, i'd have to drill out the threads.

In all honesty, don't get it..... just buy a 4p opti and [h] the bios.
 
Doesn't the server boards need modifying to fit standard hsf? AS my asus has the threaded backplate, so to use a standard cooler, i'd have to drill out the threads.

The backplate for the lga2011 is built into the socket. So there's nothing additional to install, just pop the cpu in and screw down the hsf.
 
For HSF, just grab a Hyper 121 deal and the brakets off of newegg for $5 each.

As far as the chips working..... kinda hit or miss.
 
Supermicro BIOS with "Ed Scott" Xeon chips is very hit and miss. IMO.... for how much the MB costs, it would be too great of a gamble for myself.
 
That's why they call them pioneers... :)

dysentery.jpeg
 
No dysentery for me, thanks. :p

I think I'll pass on this. It was already a lot of money for me even factoring in the low price of the chips, and I don't want to be gambling that much on my first MP build. Before I saw this I was planning to wait to see how Abu Dhabi fares, and I'll probably continue with that plan.

Thank you all for the quick replies.
 
Negative.....

Ehhh, the jpg was for lulz. However we have run into some issues with odd bal chips in the past.

Getting a 4P board to play nice with them? I dunno.

4P G34 is not a bad option and CPU prices are not bad currently.
 
That is a mighty expensive venture...
What stepping are they?
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon E5-4650 - CM8062107184516 (BX80621E54650).html

I have 4x C0 chips running in a proprietary board...
I have no clue if they would play nice or not...

If you do get it working... its a pretty bad ass setup... I am about 15% faster on that system than my 3ghz 4x dodeca AMD rig.

oh and...get a bigger psu...
This one is using 786w avg peak around 810w... And that is on 220v with a 1200w platinum PSU.

I might be one to consider their chassis for it... given the 4x 12v EPS plugs with the 24pin... recon it at-least deserves a call to make sure those are EPS 12v ....

As far as ram... 4 sticks per cpu... no more no less... if it doesnt support non-ecc udimms ECC is faster than Rdimms unless you do more than 1 stick per channel then Rdimm is faster.



Edit: darn... I missed the cancellation :( it was gonna be a BA folder...
My recommendation is grab a SM G34 board GL rev.... and a few dodecas and overclock them.... hold ya over for another 6mo before AD comes public.

Oh and while your waiting ... we would be happy to help you fix your client.cfg file ;)
 
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Here's the link to the eBay listing in case anyone else feels like giving it a go: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Sandy...BEC-/261030283828?pt=CPUs&hash=item3cc69e0a34. Evidently they are C1 stepping.

My recommendation is grab a SM G34 board GL rev.... and a few dodecas and overclock them.... hold ya over for another 6mo before AD comes public.

My "MOAR PPD" itch was sufficiently scratched with my recent upgrade from i7-930 + 2x GTX 460 to 3770K + 460's and the 930 in a dedicated Linux box (~40k PPD to ~90k). I only looked into this because of the extremely low price compared to what it would be normally (though i do realize that the price of this one rig would almost, if not completely, cover the cost of 2 AMD rigs).
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Personally I would not send $3400 to China no matter what the seller feedback/rating is. Period.
 
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Seems the price of E5-4650 on ebay has been doubled now, all cheap ones are sold out.
 
Seems the price of E5-4650 on ebay has been doubled now, all cheap ones are sold out.

Think long, think wrong. Downside - defect in virtualization. Upside - price and turbo higher [i.e., to 3.5 GHz (see e.g., http://www.ebay.com/itm/INTEL-XEON-...520-/160821815708?pt=CPUs&hash=item2571ba299c )] rather than 3.3 GHz [ http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon E5-4650 - CM8062107184516 (BX80621E54650).html ]. Just like having four E5-2680s [ http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon E5-2680.html ] for less than the price of (1) one 4650, i.e., $3,616 vs. 4 x $850 = $3,400 or (2) two 2680s ($1723 x 2 = $3446). That would be a hard deal to pass up if its offered again at that price.
 
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You also build a rig of 4P E5-4650? Congrats!
Are your 4650 chips C0 or C1 stepping? And what is your TPF number of 8101?
 
Not sure of the answer to your first question, having just recently completed this - the first of my Linux builds. Where do I find the software for TPF number of 8101? My system is devoted to 3d and video rendering.
 
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You could check the CPU Stepping under linux by:
Code:
 cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep stepping
The result of 5 means stepping C0, and 6 means stepping C1.
And I'm sorry for the second question since you are not using it for FAH.
 
You could check the CPU Stepping under linux by:
Code:
 cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep stepping
The result of 5 means stepping C0, and 6 means stepping C1.
And I'm sorry for the second question since you are not using it for FAH.

What is FAH and how do I get the software?

This is some of the output that I got from running, in Terminal, the command: dmidecode --type 4. Thus, it must be C1. Note well max CPU speed. Is there any software to tweak the CPUs' speed or turbo potential up but to less than the max?


SMBIOS 2.7 present.

Handle 0x0004, DMI type 4, 42 bytes
Processor Information
Socket Designation: SOCKET 0
Type: Central Processor
Family: Xeon
Manufacturer: Intel
ID: D6 06 02 00 FF FB EB BF
Signature: Type 0, Family 6, Model 45, Stepping 6
Flags:
FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip)
VME (Virtual mode extension)
DE (Debugging extension)
PSE (Page size extension)
TSC (Time stamp counter)
MSR (Model specific registers)
PAE (Physical address extension)
MCE (Machine check exception)
CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported)
APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported)
SEP (Fast system call)
MTRR (Memory type range registers)
PGE (Page global enable)
MCA (Machine check architecture)
CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported)
PAT (Page attribute table)
PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension)
CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported)
DS (Debug store)
ACPI (ACPI supported)
MMX (MMX technology supported)
FXSR (FXSAVE and FXSTOR instructions supported)
SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions)
SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2)
SS (Self-snoop)
HTT (Multi-threading)
TM (Thermal monitor supported)
PBE (Pending break enabled)
Version: Not Specified
Voltage: 0.0 V
External Clock: 100 MHz
Max Speed: 4000 MHz
Current Speed: 1200 MHz
Status: Populated, Enabled
Upgrade: Socket LGA2011
L1 Cache Handle: 0x0005
L2 Cache Handle: 0x0006
L3 Cache Handle: 0x0007
Serial Number: Not Specified
Asset Tag: Not Specified
Part Number: Not Specified
Core Count: 8
Core Enabled: 8
Thread Count: 16
Characteristics:
64-bit capable
Multi-Core
Hardware Thread
Execute Protection
Enhanced Virtualization
Power/Performance Control

... . [it was repeated for the other 3 sockets].

Thank you for taking your time to help me.
 
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What is FAH and how do I get the software?

This is some of the output that I got from running, in Terminal, the command: dmidecode --type 4. Thus, it must be C1. Note well max CPU speed. Is there any software to tweak the CPUs' speed or turbo potential up but to less than the max?

... [it was repeated for the other 3 sockets].

Thank you for taking your time to help me.

lol... max is 3.3 all core is 3.1...non-turbo is 2.7.
I got excited when I saw that max as well but it shows the same on every system I looked at....

You have to get acpi working for turbo to engage...
 
lol... max is 3.3 all core is 3.1...non-turbo is 2.7.
I got excited when I saw that max as well but it shows the same on every system I looked at....

You have to get acpi working for turbo to engage...

Thanks Patriot. I recognize that 4.0 is just a max for the CPUs (it's similar to what occurs on my 2687Ws), not what I'd get without someway to clock tweak them (like I have done on my 2687Ws on my Asus mobo). However, when I run CPU z in Win 7 U, although it recognizes only 2 cpus, it shows turbo as 3.5 (just as the seller had advertised), not 3.3. Other Win cpu measuring apps, such as ADA, back this up.

BTW I've already got turbo engaging, but am still wondering whether in Linux there is some way to tweak CPU during runtime on OS (like on my SR2 build) since I can't do so in bios.
 
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Thanks Patriot. I recognize that 4.0 is just a max for the CPUs, not what I'd get without someway to clock tweak them. However, when I run CPU z in Win 7 U, although it recognizes only 2 cpus, it shows non-turbo as 2.7, but turbo as 3.5 (just as the seller had advertised), not 3.3. Other Win cpu measuring apps, such as ADA, back this up.

BTW I've already got turbo engaging, but am still wondering whether in Linux there is some way to tweak CPU during runtime since I can't do so in bios.

:facepalm: not really no... if you found a way to tweak them keeping them cool is the limit.
4ghz is not the max ... I don't know what generates that number it seems to be a default as I have found it on many different types of systems...

all core turbo that I saw was 3.1.
Max turbo is different depending on the stepping ...but its useless for fah...
Windows 7 only supports 2 sockets...(2k8r2 for >2) but use linux period...
FAH performance sucks windows side.

Power settings need to be OS control for turbo to engage... I think there was something else....I am fuzzy on it though.
 
@TheRealTutor , it looks like your needing help, i'd suggest making a new thread rather than getting this thread a bit more off topic. IE the discussion is now going well outside the scope of the initial post - Making a new thread will allow others who have similar questions to find the info you may get easier.
 
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:facepalm: not really no... if you found a way to tweak them keeping them cool is the limit.
4ghz is not the max ... I don't know what generates that number it seems to be a default as I have found it on many different types of systems...

all core turbo that I saw was 3.1.
Max turbo is different depending on the stepping ...but its useless for fah...
Windows 7 only supports 2 sockets...(2k8r2 for >2) but use linux period...
FAH performance sucks windows side.

Power settings need to be OS control for turbo to engage... I think there was something else....I am fuzzy on it though.

No face palming - (see e.g., http://www.ebay.com/itm/INTEL-XEON-...520-/160821815708?pt=CPUs&hash=item2571ba299c ). But I don't doubt that they could turbo above 4.0 because I done that with 2687Ws on the Asus mobo. My cooling system is not an impediment to my tweaking the cpus a little, it's just the Super Micro mobo doesn't expose the way to do so in bios. I don't know about FAH, but I do use my systems for 3d/video rendering. I'm running Linux now.

This is what cpupower frequency-info shows:
linux-uydo:~ # cpupower frequency-info
analyzing CPU 0:
driver: acpi-cpufreq
CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 0
CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 0
maximum transition latency: 10.0 us.
hardware limits: 1.20 GHz - 2.70 GHz
available frequency steps: 2.70 GHz, 2.70 GHz, 2.60 GHz, 2.50 GHz, 2.40 GHz, 2.30 GHz, 2.20 GHz, 2.10 GHz, 2.00 GHz, 1.90 GHz, 1.80 GHz, 1.70 GHz, 1.60 GHz, 1.50 GHz, 1.40 GHz, 1.30 GHz, 1.20 GHz
available cpufreq governors: conservative, userspace, powersave, ondemand, performance
current policy: frequency should be within 1.20 GHz and 2.70 GHz.
The governor "performance" may decide which speed to use
within this range.
current CPU frequency is 1.20 GHz (asserted by call to hardware).
boost state support:
Supported: yes
Active: yes
3100 MHz max turbo 7-8 active cores
3200 MHz max turbo 4-6 active cores
3400 MHz max turbo 3 active cores
3500 MHz max turbo 2 active cores
3500 MHz max turbo 1 active cores
 
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@TheRealTutor , it looks like your needing help, i'd suggest making a new thread rather than getting this thread a bit more off topic. IE the discussion is now going well outside the scope of the initial post - Making a new thread will allow others who have similar questions to find the info you may get easier.

Is distributed computing limited to what you guys are referring to as FAH, or does it also include distributed rendering which I use my systems for? What is FAH and how do I get the software. I think that everything that I've posted might be extremely relevant to some who might be looking into purchasing a 4P E5-4650 system (because my postings relate to questions posed to me regarding mine from other people considering doing the same for 3d and video rendering) and have a number of questions regarding such a system. However, I will consider starting a new thread.
 
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I think the max turbo should be 3.5?

Turbo freq of E5-4650:
C0/C1 stepping: 2.7GHz (no turbo), 3.1GHz (all-core turbo), 3.5GHz (one-core turbo)
C2 stepping: 2.7GHz (no turbo), 2.9GHz (all-core turbo), 3.3GHz (one-core turbo)

lol... max is 3.3 all core is 3.1...non-turbo is 2.7.
I got excited when I saw that max as well but it shows the same on every system I looked at....

You have to get acpi working for turbo to engage...
 
Hello Zagen30

I found this thread randomly and thought you might like to know that I bought these incredibly cheap E5-4650 CPUs from the merchant you refer to. I bought them on July 18 and received them a week later. I had some trouble finding the right memory for them, but when I found out this they worked 100%, and has done so since.

-alias-

I found a really good deal on 4 used E5-4650, but I've never attempted an MP build before and am somewhat hesitant to spend that kind of money. The deal's almost suspiciously good ($850 each), but that could be because they're Engineering Samples.
 
OK i'm closing this now then.

If you still have questions on the software side, please make another thread, that way if someone searched for the information (software wise) they are more likely to find it rather than when the OP was asking a hardware question.

OP if you would like it reopened please PM me.
 
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