Looking for sound card for optical bitstream

[GST-97]

I am looking for suggestions for a pcie or usb sound card that will output to optical in bitstream.
This is for my HTPC which I use HDMI to my TV which then passes through the audio via optical to my receiver.

This works great, except a lot of movie files now use Dolby TrueHD and Atmos 7.1 (which the receiver will play)
My TV will only pass through audio up to AC3 and DTS MA HD. Anything higher and it makes it to the receiver as 2 channel PCM.
Motherboard (MSI B450M bazooka v2) doesn't have optical out and i dont see an spdif header for the cheap add in brackets.

Looking for a cheap card to use as direct output to use for this.
Needs to work with windows 10 of course and I don't care about any features other than bitstream as it will be the cards only purpose.

Any suggestions??
Thanks!

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Stacks of them on Amazon- you'll want to look for reviews confirming your purpose.

Didn't know it was possible to buy a motherboard without TOSLINK...

 

[GST-97]

After trying one from amazon, and not working, just looking to get any real info on a specific one to use. I tried a cheap USB to optical sound box that said it worked with windows 10, but it never output any sound and made my system sluggish just having it plugged in. I could just keep ordering cards from amazon and returning them if they dont work, just looking to find one that I know will work the first time.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Welp, I took a look around Amazon- I use optical outputs all the time, but for stereo- and the best you're likely to come up with that 'just works' would be a Creative USB sound card. If you could find something with a Realtek chipset as on most motherboards that would accept Realtek drivers you might be alright, but I'm going to assume that that would be pretty difficult.

I also have a Xonar U3, an ASUS USB sound card. It works for headphone output at a basic level as well as microphone input, and it has a combo optical output, but I've found it unreliable, regularly cutting in and out with just a stereo stream.

The Creative stuff I've used in the past has worked.


Also, for your purpose, I would highly recommend looking for a receiver-based solution where HDMI can go straight to the receiver for audio output.

 

[mvmiller12]

Lots of stuff will bitstream out to TOSLINK/Optical. Hell, the Asus Xonar U3 USB stick (roughly $45) will also encode your Windows output in 7.1 over that optical for you,,,

The problem is that the bandwidth for TOSLINK connections tops out at compressed 7.1, which by reading your post, is what you already have. The only way you are going to get the "weightier" codecs out to your receiver is via HDMI (again, to the best of my knowledge).

 

[IdiotInCharge]

The problem is that the bandwidth for TOSLINK connections tops out at compressed 7.1, which by reading your post, is what you already have. The only way you are going to get the "weightier" codecs out to your receiver is via HDMI (again, to the best of my knowledge).

I think the issue is that the TV is dropping back to stereo for Atmos, which... is how it's going to behave regardless, because eARC isn't a thing yet and optical can't handle that.

However, my (assumption above, now stated) is that Atmos streams may be... downgraded? to 7.1 for transport over optical. Right now the OP can't get stereo working.

As for the U3... mine won't do stereo reliably, despite what it is supposed to do. It's also around eight years old.

 

[GST-97]

Well, trueHD is still 7.1. If i run the hdmi direct to my receiver now, everything works fine, but it is only a 1080p receiver. Not looking to upgrade to a 4k receiver just for this if I don't need to. Also have times i choose a different audio and video source, receiver based switching locks you to one matched audio/video stream.
Now if optical doesnt have the bandwidth for atmos, then maybe I should be looking at a new receiver

 

[mvmiller12]

Well, trueHD is still 7.1. If i run the hdmi direct to my receiver now, everything works fine, but it is only a 1080p receiver. Not looking to upgrade to a 4k receiver just for this if I don't need to. Also have times i choose a different audio and video source, receiver based switching locks you to one matched audio/video stream.
Now if optical doesnt have the bandwidth for atmos, then maybe I should be looking at a new receiver

The difference is that TrueHD is not compressed. To get that 7.1 down that TOSLINK, it is going to be compressed. There is just no way around that. Fortunately I personally find no appreciable difference between the compressed and uncompressed audio, so I am personally fine with that compromise. Some people are, some aren't. You will have to decide what works best for you, just like the rest of us.

As far as the Asus U3 is concerned, mine have behaved perfectly from day 1 that I got them (last year) and they are both used with Dolby Digital receivers over optical. YMMV, of course

 

[GST-97]

Well, impulsive me just said go and buy a new receiver, so I did. Problem solved.

Thanks guys! haha

 

[GotNoRice]

Glad that you got it resolved, but it's a shame to see so many of these "older" receivers get retired simply because they use an older version of HDMI or lack new codec support, even if they can still output 7.1, still sound great, and in some cases even have nice beefy amp sections.

My 2-channel music setup uses mostly components from the 70's and 80's so to see nice 21st century receivers already being retired is just sad. I wish there were better solutions out there, but many older receivers do at least still support 7.1 analog input. The receiver in my home theater is ~14 years old and can't play the newest codecs at all. I now run 7.1 analog output directly from my PC to the 7.1 analog inputs on the receiver. Somewhat of a crude solution but at least now, anything my PC can decode can be sent in full 7.1 to my receiver including movies using the newest codecs. The HTPC is a lot easier to upgrade than the receiver and unless I want to move beyond a 7.1 speaker setup I could easily keep using this receiver for decades as I gradually upgrade the HTPC to remain compatible with the newest movies.

Sort of reminds me of new cars with built-in GPS navigation, etc. A few years go by, tech moves on, and all of a sudden you have an obnoxiously non-functional system built into your car's dash. I'd rather the car just have better phone integration so it then becomes a matter of what the phone supports and not what the car supports, as most people buy a new phone more often than buy a new car.

 

[GST-97]

Upgrading the receiver was not what I wanted to do, but the old receiver is going to a friend who will use it.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Glad that you got it resolved, but it's a shame to see so many of these "older" receivers get retired simply because they use an older version of HDMI or lack new codec support, even if they can still output 7.1, still sound great, and in some cases even have nice beefy amp sections.

My 2-channel music setup uses mostly components from the 70's and 80's so to see nice 21st century receivers already being retired is just sad. I wish there were better solutions out there, but many older receivers do at least still support 7.1 analog input. The receiver in my home theater is ~14 years old and can't play the newest codecs at all. I now run 7.1 analog output directly from my PC to the 7.1 analog inputs on the receiver.

Once the analog inputs were tossed- and generally, at a consumer level, they weren't and aren't being used- this is the road that we were going to go down.

The challenge is that by and large, these are 'consumer' products. For an enthusiast, you wouldn't use a receiver; you'd use a 'processor' to decode the separate digital streams and then map them to line-level outputs, which would then feed amplifiers and speakers, at the very least.

Today, advanced room correction seems to be a thing. Using software and DSPs to make the most of the available speaker power, frequency response, and positioning within a room is much easier than trying to do it 'by hand', and having to draw up sophisticated 'listening room' plans, which for most consumers will never be possible.

 

[pippenainteasy]

Glad that you got it resolved, but it's a shame to see so many of these "older" receivers get retired simply because they use an older version of HDMI or lack new codec support, even if they can still output 7.1, still sound great, and in some cases even have nice beefy amp sections.

You don't really need *that* new of a receiver for proper 7.1 through PC HDMI though, I mean there are receivers from 2006 onwards that can handle that as long as you don't need anything recent stuff for niche setups like height channels or ATMOS.

I mean if your receiver is older than a launch PS3 I think it's probably worth thinking about replacing at that point...if it was a kid it would be old enough for junior high. Most people don't even have PC components or TVs that old.

 

[mvmiller12]

You don't really need *that* new of a receiver for proper 7.1 through PC HDMI though, I mean there are receivers from 2006 onwards that can handle that as long as you don't need anything recent stuff for niche setups like height channels or ATMOS.

I mean if your receiver is older than a launch PS3 I think it's probably worth thinking about replacing at that point...if it was a kid it would be old enough for junior high. Most people don't even have PC components or TVs that old.

But at that point you are advocating replacing functional hardware just 'cuz. If it is actively not doing something you need it to do, and a newer component will get you there, absolutely retire it. Otherwise, we send too much good stuff to the landfill as it is. Also when it comes to a lot of electronic devices (and frankly, most things honestly), they really don't "build 'em like they used to" anymore.

 

[GotNoRice]

You don't really need *that* new of a receiver for proper 7.1 through PC HDMI though

If this was just a pure music system then that might work but if you are hooking up a display also then that isn't really a great solution. The HDMI on older receivers is limited to in many cases 480p or if you are lucky maybe 720p, 1080i, or 1080p and isn't going to be able to pass video on to your TV through the receiver at 4K HDR. If you plug HDMI directly from your source into the TV, and use your TV for source switching instead then you bypass that issue, but then of course your receiver isn't being fed audio over HDMI at that point. Many TVs have TOSLINK output for this situation so you can pass DTS/DD/2-channel PCM to the receiver (what OP was doing for example), but then you're limited to compressed 7.1. The only way you could do what you suggest while also running HDMI directly to the TV would be to run a 2nd HDMI cable from your videocard to your receiver and set it up as a ghost display, but this can often cause all sorts of unintended issues such as causing HDR on your TV to not work correctly, etc. Not that it can't possibly be made to work, but it's a very messy solution that has a lot of potential consequences. It's a shame really that they don't have better support for HDMI audio-only output that is independent of video.

I mean if your receiver is older than a launch PS3 I think it's probably worth thinking about replacing at that point...if it was a kid it would be old enough for junior high. Most people don't even have PC components or TVs that old.

I don't personally replace components simply because they've reached a certain arbitrary age. I replace components based on their individual merits and the potential benefits of a newer unit. In the case of most PC components and HDTVs, tech moves quickly, standards change, and older components are often no longer of much use. In other cases, standards remain constant for a long time. Even in my gaming PC, I'm using a power supply and a sound card that are over 10 years old, and I can do that because they still work great and those standards have remained constant. People keep and use old cars all the time because they still drive on modern roads just fine. Prior to the HD era, people used older TVs all the time because the NTSC spec remained constant for such a long time.

I have components in my Music system that are over 40 years old and still going strong. Because it's all 2-channel analog it's not subject to things like not supporting the latest version of HDMI. The receiver in my Home Theater is a Pioneer Elite VSX-74txvi and a lot of it's value comes from it's nice amp section that can do 140wpc @8ohms (20-20,000hz, 0.09% THD) on all 7 channels. I'm in no hurry to toss it in the trash just because the HDMI spec changed, especially when I can simply run HDMI directly to my TV instead.