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Looking for Headphone Upgrade, Need Advice!

T

TheAMAZINGNorad

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 23, 2002
Messages
80
Howdy!

Well now I am moved to Ft. Rucker and have a roommate, so I am using the headphones more and more in the evening hours. This town home transmits music like a PITA, so my B&Ws have to get cranked down at night. Out come the cans! Right now I run SR-80s unamped from my original old school X-fi. They sound awesome for rock and such, but I listen to a lot of electronica ( mostly vocal trance off sites like di.fm) and miss the bass from my 602S3/X-sub combo when I have the phones on. I have done a lot of options and come down to three possible solutions:

1. Amp the SR-80s

2. Pick up a pair of more bass heavy phones, such as the DT770s, and use them for electronica and the Grados for Rock and Death Metal.

3. Do both :p

Having not experienced any of these, I am asking y'all for opinions. This town sucks royal donkey d**k and there is no hope of auditioning anything. And all the other LTs blow all their money on cars and booze so little chance of finding another audio guy to chat with. I hear the 80s shine with an amp, but at the same time I might just need a second pair of cans for different musical tastes. What do y'all recommend?

P.S. To clarify, I want tight, accurate bass. Not boomy "Hey I am 16 and have 5 15" subs in my car roXor I am 133t++++!!! FTW!!!" sound for me.
 
What's your budget? For amp or headphones? Or maybe even an upgrade in source?
 
Ultra 780/Beyers DT150. You will have a very hard time finding tight accurate bass, if your price point is under 100.00. And most cans are made with a heavy emphasis on bass..One way to tell if a headphone is some what accurate, is to play a bass heavy song and a bass light song, if the bass light song have a lot of bass I would not consider then accurate.. My 48s bass is pretty accurate, better then my 650s.
 
Budget is around $250 to start. If I were to do an amp and cans, I would say I could spend $500 over the next 2 or 3 paychecks. I knew I was going to spend over $100. :)
 
TheAMAZINGNorad said:
Budget is around $250 to start. If I were to do an amp and cans, I would say I could spend $500 over the next 2 or 3 paychecks. I knew I was going to spend over $100. :)
Click to expand...

Lol. Indeed. One last question before we give recommendations: Are you willing to purchase used units? Head-Fi.org has a very nice, near scammer-less community that has a thriving secondary market for audio components. I have bought numerous second-hand headphones, amps, and sources there with almost no hassle. Obviously, you need to cover your bases and such by checking for legit phone numbers and such if the seller has low feedback, but otherwise, great place.

As for retail priced products, I would agree with kool on the HFI-780 as a great start to headphones. Also, consider getting them recabled which supposedly makes them sound even better than they already do (and they do sound great btw).
 
I suggest the Denon D2000. It's versatile, sounds great with rock and electronica, and works very well unamped.
 
Alai said:
Lol. Indeed. One last question before we give recommendations: Are you willing to purchase used units? Head-Fi.org has a very nice, near scammer-less community that has a thriving secondary market for audio components. I have bought numerous second-hand headphones, amps, and sources there with almost no hassle. Obviously, you need to cover your bases and such by checking for legit phone numbers and such if the seller has low feedback, but otherwise, great place.

As for retail priced products, I would agree with kool on the HFI-780 as a great start to headphones. Also, consider getting them recabled which supposedly makes them sound even better than they already do (and they do sound great btw).
Click to expand...
True. I bought half my headphones used. 2 DACs used. One headphone amp used. To the OP, if you want deep full bass, the Ultra 750Ss are well regarded and closed..If you feel a bit frisky with better SQ and more pop, the new Ultra 900s will be your ticket.. They retail for 600, but you can get them for 330-350 from some online vendors..And the DT150s sound much better then their asking price,188-192. with full, textured, bass, with detail that resolves every nucance and layers of the bass..But these have a very industrial look to them, but comfy as hell. I'm ordering a pair tomorrow.

On a side note, if a seller has no feedback, and if you have some, it's customary for the seller to ship you the item before paying for it.. I have a good rep over there.. A person sent me my 275.00 DT48s before I sent payment. I was paying by check. And paid him when the phones arrived.. One member bought me a pair of 701s, with the promise that I paid him back. I did.. I sold a 700 amp to another head fier. No problem. I guess I'm trying to insure you that the majority at head fi are honest and trust worthy..But watch out for some pit falls.

1. New member will very few post.
2. Selling a item for super cheap.
3. Random listing of, do you want to buy so and so.
4. Seller has no feedback anywhere.
5. seller won't give you their phone number or address.

Things to look for

1.Member activity. If a member post daily, he won't do something to get himself banned..Usually.
2. Look for a high post count. The more posts, the less chance he is a scammer.
3. Positive feedback.
4. Trust your instint and 'gut' feeling. 9/10 the feeling is correct.
5. Seller is easy to deal with and open. Has no problem giving you his number or address.
6. Just be smart..)

Good Luck
 
I would also highly recommend the FS forums over at Head-Fi. Usually you can find a few steals over there for both amps and cans.

I haven't personally heard the 780s, so I can't comment on them--however, I have a set of 2200s. After a quite lengthy burn in (the latter 150 hours was mostly in regards to taming the highs) they sound fantastic. I would have to assume that the 780s would sound pretty damn good--but consider this:

If you're planning on getting the 780s and recabling them (S2 being the cheapest option for that, short of DIY), you're in the Pro750 price range and that might be a better candidate for you. If the Ultrasone sound signature isn't an issue (and for some people it is), then I've read only fantastic things about how accurate the base is on the 750s/2500s.

As for the amp, are you looking SS or tube? Off the top of my head there's the Little Dot I+, a hybrid, that's meant for low impedance headphones and is pretty cheap. Tube rolling + opamp rolling, so you can tailor the sound to your phones. Roughly ~150 shipped. Can't speak for synergy with the Grados, but there's a decent thread over at Head-Fi covering the amp.

*Edit*

Kool beat me by a few seconds it seems, so read his post and ignore me repeating him on the 750s rec
 
Wenglish said:
I would also highly recommend the FS forums over at Head-Fi. Usually you can find a few steals over there for both amps and cans.

I haven't personally heard the 780s, so I can't comment on them--however, I have a set of 2200s. After a quite lengthy burn in (the latter 150 hours was mostly in regards to taming the highs) they sound fantastic. I would have to assume that the 780s would sound pretty damn good--but consider this:

If you're planning on getting the 780s and recabling them (S2 being the cheapest option for that, short of DIY), you're in the Pro750 price range and that might be a better candidate for you. If the Ultrasone sound signature isn't an issue (and for some people it is), then I've read only fantastic things about how accurate the base is on the 750s/2500s.

As for the amp, are you looking SS or tube? Off the top of my head there's the Little Dot I+, a hybrid, that's meant for low impedance headphones and is pretty cheap. Tube rolling + opamp rolling, so you can tailor the sound to your phones. Roughly ~150 shipped. Can't speak for synergy with the Grados, but there's a decent thread over at Head-Fi covering the amp.

*Edit*

Kool beat me by a few seconds it seems, so read his post and ignore me repeating him on the 750s rec
Click to expand...
You can get the 780s for 180, and the 750s for around 250 at Northern Lights. I did see a 780 for 150 on head fi, but was too broke to get it.
 
damn they bumped up the 780s on NLS? I was going to get that or a 680 for i think $20 less a couple months ago but I decided not to.

as for 780s vs 750s, i've heard that 780s recabled are awfully close to the ED9's, and better than the 750s
 
It all depends on where you get the recabled 780s from.

Moon runs $420 for the standard job. That's sufficiently higher than the $250 for the 750s. Of course, if you get the 780s used and recable them yourself or have S2 do it, it can be cheaper...but then you could get the 750s used to spend even less--and well, you know how it goes.

Both will sound better the SR80s, imo. It's just a question of how much you hate your wallet :p

Speaking of deals, I got the 2200s (with less than 10 hours on them) for 120. Gotta love it.
 
New here, and I'm using some older stuff (Audigy 1 Platinum), but I've been very happy with Audio Technica ATH-M40fs. They've got a pretty broad range, and have a pretty flat response. Specs are: 40mm driver, 1.6 watts handling (plenty loud for me) with 5-28k hz. response. Maybe tweak the software EQ a little, or use an outboard preamp with EQ to get the sound you like. They have a clear sound for me, and I've also used them for mixing and monitoring on recordings. For $70 they're worth it.
 
Just get a pair of DT770's and be done with it.

Or if you really want bass heavy cans, order a pair of Darth Beyer's (cost a bit more though). There is a pair on head-fi going for $475 that I would love to have, but I just don't have the funds right now. Anyway, I would suggest the DT770's. I have heard both the 770's and the Grado's and while the Grado's indeed are "fun" sounding, the DT770's are really some of the best I have ever heard.

Other headphones I have heard are as follows: varous Stax models, AKG 701, HD650, HD580's Grado SR-80, DT880, DT770, Darth Beyer's, and modded Ultrasone ProLine 2500's.

I currently own HD580's, AKG Sextett's, and Ultrasone ProLine 2500's.

As far as an amp, it all depends on if you want a portable amp or a desktop amp and if you want solid-state or a tube amp. I just purchased my first tube amp and I love it so far. Good luck with your search.
 
Well first off, wow! I was not expecting so many replies! As far as an amp is concerned, it would be something I would keep at the Desktop. Honestly, I don't listen to headphones at work. Kinda can't do that in a Helo, not to mention we are not supposed to wear headphones in uniform :cool:. This is purely an at-home device. As far as tube versus solid state, I have no freaking idea honestly. I guess I will have to look into the pros and cons of each. I would imagine it would depend on the can I choose? What would go good with my SR80s for rock and then any of the 750/780 or DT-770s mentioned?

Secondly, I will go research these 750/780s. Thanks on the heads up for Head-Fi as well, it seems like a great forum to do research and to look for a good deal. The problem is, ironically, that it almost seems as if it is TOO MUCH information to go though! It seems like it all boils down to personal opinion, but how are you supposed to know without auditioning or dropping ALOT of money buying and trying to return several models. *Grumbles*

I guess I got more reading to do hehe...
 
I was able to try a set of HD650's before, and they were pretty good as well, just much more expensive than the Audio Technicas mentioned above, without performing much better. As far as tube vs. solid state, it mostly depends on if you're going with just a headphone amp, or something driving actual speakers. If it's headphone....just go with solid state as most preamps are class A anyway, and SS will be smaller, and much easier to fit on a desk. You probably won't hear a difference between tube and SS preamps. Most of the "warmth" and "magic" talked about is from the power tubes, and a few things affecting them. I mostly play guitar and bass, and both types have their merits. Bass usually requires a lot of power, and the distortion doesn't seem to be as audible in that band so a MOSFET based power amp for bass is usually fine. Heck, I use a SS bass amp because it's not as heavy, and puts out more wattage with less heat. Some will argue the point, but it's a very fine one. Treble, however, definitely sounds better with a tube.
If you just want good all around sound, try checking up on Ebay for an old (but well taken care of or possibly restored/rebuilt) Dynaco, Lafayette, Heathkit, Zenith, Leak, Harmon Kardon, or Macintosh amp. They'll be better quality than what is produced today simply from being point to point circuitry (no printed circuit board, just wires from one solder joint to the other).I prefer EL-84 or EL-34 based power amps, although I won't discount 6L6 or 5881 tubes.

Pros of transistor: Smaller package, lower power draw (unless it's a very large amp), less prone to microphonics, transistors usually don't have to be replaced, and much less heat (unless driven hard). Less $ in general.

Cons: Power amps tend to have "brittle" sounding treble reproduction. If pushed into clipping they sound like butt. Usually harder to diagnose if something does break. Won't withstand power surges/sags as well, and will be destroyed by EMP. Lots of junk products on the market.

Pros of a tube: Simpler circuitry, easier to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. Very reliable components, and superior sound in the treble range. Clipping is more linear and subtle, without the harsh "crackle" of a transistor. Very resistant to surges/sags, and unharmed by EMP (the military still uses tube amps because of this).

Cons: High heat output, larger packaging, more power draw per watt, tubes will have to be replaced at some point, and the amp possibly re-biased (unless auto-biasing circuitry is involved). Less wattage output in general, prone to microphonics if dropped or jostled heavily. Modern tubes tend to not be as good as antique ones, so finding the perfect tube to listen to can be tricky (I'm fond of Raytheon preamp tubes, but they're hard to find). A lot more expensive (various reasons). Also a lot of junk on the market.

Again, if it's just a headphone preamp, just go transistor as you probably won't hear the difference between that and a tube model.
 
TheAMAZINGNorad said:
Secondly, I will go research these 750/780s. Thanks on the heads up for Head-Fi as well, it seems like a great forum to do research and to look for a good deal. The problem is, ironically, that it almost seems as if it is TOO MUCH information to go though! It seems like it all boils down to personal opinion, but how are you supposed to know without auditioning or dropping ALOT of money buying and trying to return several models. *Grumbles*

I guess I got more reading to do hehe...
Click to expand...

This is what I did. I don't have any hi-fi audio shops around here. Or if there are, I can't seem to find them online or in Yellow Pages. So I am stuck with "buy and try". That's why Head-Fi is so great. You can buy and try so easily because the buying and selling of used AND new audio equipment just happens fluidly and frequently. Of course, that means you will have an ever decreasing cash flow into your wallet since your income will steadily be spent more and more on auditioning more and more expensive audio equipment. But hey, if you enjoy it, then no biggie.
 
UnexplodedCow said:
I was able to try a set of HD650's before, and they were pretty good as well, just much more expensive than the Audio Technicas mentioned above, without performing much better. As far as tube vs. solid state, it mostly depends on if you're going with just a headphone amp, or something driving actual speakers. If it's headphone....just go with solid state as most preamps are class A anyway, and SS will be smaller, and much easier to fit on a desk. You probably won't hear a difference between tube and SS preamps. Most of the "warmth" and "magic" talked about is from the power tubes, and a few things affecting them. I mostly play guitar and bass, and both types have their merits. Bass usually requires a lot of power, and the distortion doesn't seem to be as audible in that band so a MOSFET based power amp for bass is usually fine. Heck, I use a SS bass amp because it's not as heavy, and puts out more wattage with less heat. Some will argue the point, but it's a very fine one. Treble, however, definitely sounds better with a tube.
If you just want good all around sound, try checking up on Ebay for an old (but well taken care of or possibly restored/rebuilt) Dynaco, Lafayette, Heathkit, Zenith, Leak, Harmon Kardon, or Macintosh amp. They'll be better quality than what is produced today simply from being point to point circuitry (no printed circuit board, just wires from one solder joint to the other).I prefer EL-84 or EL-34 based power amps, although I won't discount 6L6 or 5881 tubes.

Pros of transistor: Smaller package, lower power draw (unless it's a very large amp), less prone to microphonics, transistors usually don't have to be replaced, and much less heat (unless driven hard). Less $ in general.

Cons: Power amps tend to have "brittle" sounding treble reproduction. If pushed into clipping they sound like butt. Usually harder to diagnose if something does break. Won't withstand power surges/sags as well, and will be destroyed by EMP. Lots of junk products on the market.

Pros of a tube: Simpler circuitry, easier to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. Very reliable components, and superior sound in the treble range. Clipping is more linear and subtle, without the harsh "crackle" of a transistor. Very resistant to surges/sags, and unharmed by EMP (the military still uses tube amps because of this).

Cons: High heat output, larger packaging, more power draw per watt, tubes will have to be replaced at some point, and the amp possibly re-biased (unless auto-biasing circuitry is involved). Less wattage output in general, prone to microphonics if dropped or jostled heavily. Modern tubes tend to not be as good as antique ones, so finding the perfect tube to listen to can be tricky (I'm fond of Raytheon preamp tubes, but they're hard to find). A lot more expensive (various reasons). Also a lot of junk on the market.

Again, if it's just a headphone preamp, just go transistor as you probably won't hear the difference between that and a tube model.
Click to expand...
What did you amp them with? The 650s scale very well, even with 10,000-20,000 worth of gear.. And they thrive balanced.
 
TheAMAZINGNorad said:
Well first off, wow! I was not expecting so many replies! As far as an amp is concerned, it would be something I would keep at the Desktop. Honestly, I don't listen to headphones at work. Kinda can't do that in a Helo, not to mention we are not supposed to wear headphones in uniform :cool:. This is purely an at-home device. As far as tube versus solid state, I have no freaking idea honestly. I guess I will have to look into the pros and cons of each. I would imagine it would depend on the can I choose? What would go good with my SR80s for rock and then any of the 750/780 or DT-770s mentioned?

Secondly, I will go research these 750/780s. Thanks on the heads up for Head-Fi as well, it seems like a great forum to do research and to look for a good deal. The problem is, ironically, that it almost seems as if it is TOO MUCH information to go though! It seems like it all boils down to personal opinion, but how are you supposed to know without auditioning or dropping ALOT of money buying and trying to return several models. *Grumbles*

I guess I got more reading to do hehe...
Click to expand...
Go to headphone meets. Problem solved. I bought all my cans cold, and didn't hate any of them.
 
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