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Looking at the Mora 3 Pro

N

Nightbird

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
1,067
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=59_457_912 - Is this not exactly that for which you are searching?

That is the 180mm-fan radiator section, and the Mora-3 series is listed. It's a monster of a radiator, and quite a good deal considering its cooling capacity.

Silverstone makes some 180mm fans (there are different models, ball-bearing, sleeve-bearing, air-penetrator (which I thought was a higher-RPM, directed-flow sleeve-bearing model). Edit: P-PCs shows the FN181 (sleeve) and FM181 (ball) Silverstone fan models, priced at $20 and $27, respectively. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=248471 - Very useful thread (I'm the OP, Vampiyer) concerning Silverstone's 180mm fans. It seems as though people prefer the more expensive ball-bearing model to the original. I never bought the fans though...gave up and settled for 120mm. I do know that the AP-model performs better in the Silverstone cases, but they are louder, and it remains to be seen whether or not the AP-model is of significant benefit when a radiator shroud will be employed anyway.

Another option is Thermalright's TY-140 fan: http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling/806539-thermalright-ty-140-review.html (In addition: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/thermalright-silver-arrow.html - concluding that the TR fans are superior to Noctua's included fans on the NH-D14, although this does not account for tonality). These fans are least expensive at SVC, from my last search, as they are $15 elsewhere. You'd need to make a custom mounting shroud - perhaps out of sheet metal or acrylic or plastic - but it seems you wouldn't get full coverage unless you made an oversized shroud for 9 fans... or 8-fans in push-pull perhaps.

About MORA rads: These are not flat-tube radiators, so I'm thinking the air-restriction may be higher than expected (though I can't be certain) due to a great amount of tube area obstructing airflow (not only the FPI). Even though the MORA-3 description claims that it is optimized for low-speed fans, I happen to have two similar radiators from Lytron (similar size and construction, but admittedly slightly higher FPI by observation), and they are restrictive. If that is the case, then shrouds and push-pull fan operation will be of greater benefit in this application. But hell... this WAS specifically designed for PC-cooling, so maybe WaterCool has alleviated that issue. Actually, Now I remember seeing a RedRaider forum test indicating that the MORA performed well with low-speed fans...I wish I could replace my twin Lytron setup with 2x Mora 3 radiators, to be honest (Not a normal PC-cooling application).

I wrote all of this because I'm fantasizing about the MORA-3 and my options :)
 
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Archmage said:
About MORA rads: These are not flat-tube radiators, so I'm thinking the air-restriction may be higher than expected (though I can't be certain) due to a great amount of tube area obstructing airflow (not only the FPI). Even though the MORA-3 description claims that it is optimized for low-speed fans, I happen to have two similar radiators from Lytron (similar size and construction, but admittedly slightly higher FPI by observation), and they are restrictive. If that is the case, then shrouds and push-pull fan operation will be of greater benefit in this application. But hell... this WAS specifically designed for PC-cooling, so maybe WaterCool has alleviated that issue. Actually, Now I remember seeing a RedRaider forum test indicating that the MORA performed well with low-speed fans...I wish I could replace my twin Lytron setup with 2x Mora 3 radiators, to be honest (Not a normal PC-cooling application).
Click to expand...

aren't the flat-tube type radiators generally more efficient than round tube not only because of the design allows for greater airflow (generally), but also because it has a greater unobstructed surface area?

I have no doubt that they may have improved upon their older designs, but I just can't see it realistically performing better than the newer design adoption (flat-tubes).
 
You're right. Per area, the flat-tube design is superior. A higher proportion of water remains in contact (or closer proximity, I should say - (wikipedia: boundary layer) with the conducting copper tube, flow-rates can be slightly higher, it would seem there is less air-obstruction at the same FPI, etc...

But the MORA is just so damned huge that it still outperforms even Quad radiators by a significant margin.

Here is some proof: http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=26600 - at low RPM especially, the MORA-2 is dominating.

If you observe the flow-rates, it's right in the middle of the pack. It's not highly restrictive with respect to water flow.

http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17718 - Here is another review (no MORA) with an SR1-560 radiator for comparison. Bundymania is the reviewer again, so I'm hoping the test conditions were the same, and for some reason, the 560 is really kicking ass. It's nearly matching the MORA performance level.

So yes, I'd consider 560-radiators as well. In fact, because I have no size constraints (560-rad is long), and because I'm willing to fab some mounting gear, that would probably be the better option for me - but perhaps not for everyone. The MORA remains a convenient ready-made solution (relatively easy to secure in upright position compared to a 560-rad, which will require more work) that just plain works at an attractive price-point.

Edit: And obviously there is the review the OP linked. It shows the MORA-3 significantly outperforming the MORA-2 (at low-RPM I guess... they list volts). It's also flowing better. That's impressive.
 
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why not just go for an aftermarket copper car radiator? I'm sure a decent one could be found at the same, or even a better price.

I understand the mora is convenient, but if you got the tools and the time, why not take it to the next level? lol
 
Yep - I've been looking into that as well.

Alternatively, I could get an OEM 1.25" thick copper core radiator from various places for around $100, or something like a KOYO (good manufacturer) copper core radiator for $150-$200. I'm leaning toward the KOYO because I know them to be good... I had one (albeit Aluminum) in my now retired race car. There's also something called the 18-FPI "Optima Core" for standard copper radiators. It seems as though I could get them to send me one of their higher performance cores (and have a local radiator shop affix the tanks) or a custom radiator - but it seems costly, and I doubt it'd be much better than a KOYO copper S-core (Seems to be rebranded as Yashio in a few cases) if at all.

This project of mine is several months out, but it's something I've already done once over a decade ago (heh... in middle school). That was an Aluminum TEC-chiller loop, so I did use an Aluminum Racing radiator. This time, assuming I continue forward with the project, it'll be bigger, more efficient, and more versatile (multiple applications, including room-cooling, cooling of multiple electronics on-demand (quick-disconnects for modularity)).

As for larger fans: I think the Nissan Altima fans from a few years ago were shown to outflow Flex-a-lites... they seem pretty good. I have no idea what I'll do about that though... the radiators will be housed outside, so I'd need something weather-resistant. It's not a huge concern for me right now... this is a summer project.

Edit: (I think the graphs are gone... drat) http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://home.satx.rr.com/nissanweb/RadTest/RadTest.htm - Yep, the Altima fans: "With regards to fans, the Altima fans will outflow almost anything commonly available on the market. That is pretty good considering that they typically cost between $50-$100 a pair." + "The Permacool fans should not even be sold on the open market for how the[sic] performed."

Edit 2: The reason my posts are so detailed is because I end up re-searching my own posts for information. It'd be a PITA to organize a bunch of different documents full of irrelevant, outdated research, so I wait until I really know what I'm doing to compose those. I'm also hoping that others will find the information useful.
 
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nice bit of info. I was planning on going water cooling a while back so I did quite a bit of research on basics, but income has hampered that idea for a bit so I've been laying off really getting into specifics other than 120mm/140mm fans and some more common PC aimed components.

the custom "optima core" you mention seems like it'd be very interesting (though costly). any clue on the tube spacing with relation to the fins? (didn't find anything with a quick google search, unless I was looking for the wrong thing, lol). I never got too interested in the idea of using the larger radiators and looking at most aimed at PC cooling, it just seemed like a better idea to go straight to car radiators instead. most car radiators I've ended up detailing seemed to have a higher fin-density than the more "standard" low fin-density PC based rads, so the seemingly low density on that "optima core" has me a little interested (I'm into the more "silent" performance when it comes to water considering how bad fans like deltas get, lol).
 
I've been thinking about creating a radiator "box", attaching a 3M filter to the intake, and using it for both cooling and air cleaning. This would eliminate the dust I currently see on my radiator, clean the air, and save some $$ on an expensive air filter unit. Does anyone know what kind of CFM or static pressure I'll need to push air through a 3M filter?
 
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