Lone Industries L2: Dual slot version of L1 anyone?

I did a bit more reading via Google translate and yeah cbinvb, the ZALMAN CNPS2X cooler is a complete waste for any amount you can throw at it. In all honesty, I came across your build log just a few hours ago and I yet have the tab up but I thought of finding some time and going through it with a fresh mind and yes, that's where I came across your massive cooler :D hehe

Perfect If I must say so myself... :)

As for the build log you've linked Stevo_, that build uses a matx board and although the system is running a dual channel kit - its not set in the left most slot rather offset by one dimm.

I could actually remove the heat spreaders on top of the kit but the thermals might be bad since they already run hot when I have them set at 2133MHz(xmp setting has it at 2000MHz).

Choices=more dilemma's
:)
 
L2 is so close...

loneindustries said:
Probably not supported out of the box. Stevo_ is looking to use a Flex ATX PSU. He may be able to comment more on how do-able this is? You'd for sure loose the ability to use the SSD/HDD bracket, but may be able to mount one 2.5 inch drive to the existing mounting holes at a 90 degree angle.
Click to expand...

Lutfij said:
I was about to suggest the extra clearance behind mobo tray to accommodate ssd's or 2.5" drives
Click to expand...

Here's my idea for L3.

Flex ATX PSU located where the current dual 80mm case fans are. This way a normal power cable can plug directly into the back of the case. I dislike having to rely on external power bricks. Also, quite nice Flex ATX PSUs are available in the 150*81.5*40.5 mm size. Seasonic makes the SS250-SU which is 80 Plus Bronze at 250W, and FSP makes the FSP300-60LG which is 80 Plus Bronze at 300W. Those are just the first two I found that seemed decent. This might add several mm to the top of the case, but IMO worth it to not require an external brick. Regarding noise, since they use a 40mm fan, I have the Seasonic PSU and under idle conditions it is darn near inaudible. I have not tested under full load, but I'd imagine that the CPU and GPU fans would be spinning up as well.

So, the PSU there blocks the fans. Well, put the fans where the current 2.5" drive mounts are. This changes the airflow to front>rear, which IMO is better than the current design. Right now, where is air coming from? A graphics card will somewhat block air from the bottom vents. To balance air coming in the front, vents will be needed on the rear next to the I/O. And of course, bottom vents are still needed for the graphics card.

Hmmm, is there an option of flip-flopping the case, so that the PSU is on bottom and GPU on top?

Also, a few mm thicker to mount 2.5" drives under the motherboard would be great. Have an option of mounting two 2.5" drives on the side panel for those who don't use taller CPU coolers.

Of course, in aluminum. Is anodizing an option instead of powder coating?

I'd buy such a case. Biggest thing for me is having the entire PSU inside the case, instead of using a brick.
 
I'd like to see it as well. I'm not a brick-o-phobe and don't mind working with a pico psu but I'd like to see what others can bring to the table. This may make the case bigger but Lone Has a pretty good eye for aesthetics so I think if he decides to implement an L3 it would be a nice one. But I think he'd start opening the flood gates for full size GPU with risers etc ;) this case as it stands meets my needs for size and power.
 
Zap said:
L2 is so close...





Here's my idea for L3.

Flex ATX PSU located where the current dual 80mm case fans are. This way a normal power cable can plug directly into the back of the case. I dislike having to rely on external power bricks. Also, quite nice Flex ATX PSUs are available in the 150*81.5*40.5 mm size. Seasonic makes the SS250-SU which is 80 Plus Bronze at 250W, and FSP makes the FSP300-60LG which is 80 Plus Bronze at 300W. Those are just the first two I found that seemed decent. This might add several mm to the top of the case, but IMO worth it to not require an external brick. Regarding noise, since they use a 40mm fan, I have the Seasonic PSU and under idle conditions it is darn near inaudible. I have not tested under full load, but I'd imagine that the CPU and GPU fans would be spinning up as well.

So, the PSU there blocks the fans. Well, put the fans where the current 2.5" drive mounts are. This changes the airflow to front>rear, which IMO is better than the current design. Right now, where is air coming from? A graphics card will somewhat block air from the bottom vents. To balance air coming in the front, vents will be needed on the rear next to the I/O. And of course, bottom vents are still needed for the graphics card.

Hmmm, is there an option of flip-flopping the case, so that the PSU is on bottom and GPU on top?

Also, a few mm thicker to mount 2.5" drives under the motherboard would be great. Have an option of mounting two 2.5" drives on the side panel for those who don't use taller CPU coolers.

Of course, in aluminum. Is anodizing an option instead of powder coating?

I'd buy such a case. Biggest thing for me is having the entire PSU inside the case, instead of using a brick.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with pretty much everything said here. I've loved L1 from the start, except for having to use an external pico PSU. Maybe it's me but it seems like too much to fiddle with when it comes to those.

I would love to see an L3 version that

1) Houses a flex atx PSU inside and at the bottom by flipping the mobo (but PSU on the top would be just fine too),
2) Has a 120mm side vent (removing the vents from the bottom and adding a side vent would benefit the CPU and mobo cooling, without sacrificing from size, and low-profile CPU coolers are designed to take advantage of this),
3) Has two slots for GPU just as it is with L2,
4) Has SSD location just as it is with L2.

I wouldn't change anything else. Adding thickness for additional 2.5" drives would make the case too large for what it is. It seems to me, there is space for a third 2.5" drive in the front anyway, isn't there?

A version like this would be only just a bit taller, without having to change any other dimension, and I would definitely buy one without a blink.
 
Hey, thank you for the feedback, and kind words! Those are some good ideas, and I'll give them some consideration. I can do an anodized finish, but I'd need to look into it more. Also, there is probably room for a third 2.5 inch drive, maybe even a fourth, but the more you add, the less room there is for wiring/working.

Part of the problem I do have with something like a FlexATX/SFX/ATX PSU is the experience. For me, I love working with a PicoPSU (or equivalent) because of the lack of wires, and because it's totally silent. I've never found I had to mess around. Quite the opposite, and perhaps maybe a little too easy for most enthusiasts.

I would wholeheartedly recommend investing in an NCASE M1 if this is what you're after. The NCASE M1 is actually quite small, and actually not a whole lot bigger than the L2 (both are the same height) when you consider what you can stuff in it. (Disclaimer: I do not own an M1, and am not affiliated with NCASE in any way). :)
 
What I think could be more interesting is building a case around the Alienware x51 PSU. Only problem with that is how insanely restricting it is(not many other like form factor PSUs and the price is $150-ish IIRC). Dual Pico-PSUs could be cool too but that would probably require some weird rewiring if it'd even work. Flex-ATX PSUs would probably be a horrible idea unless they were heavily modded(new or no chassis/sleeved/shortened cables/more/better heatsinks) and the expertise required would probably alienate a lot of people.

Honestly, I think the L2 should just be improved on in late revisions. We should just wait to see what the market brings.

Loneindustries, have you ever considered making low-cost/high margin aux. connectors/components to sell along-side the case? Everything listed here is something that shouldn't be hard to build from scratch almost. System screen/fan controller included.

Here are some ideas that I think could be interesting:
  • USB 2/3 connector
  • 2-3 fan controller
  • System screeen (something simple)
  • Sleeved connections or adapters based around common PicoPSU setups
  • LP GPU Backplates
  • Sound insulation attachment (probably not even necessary)
  • SATA cables
  • Removable/replaceable fan exhausts
  • Case stand
 
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Ryleh, thank you for the ideas. I have thought about offering custom PicoPSU wiring. When you say "LP GPU backplates", are you referring to expansion slot covers? Nice flexible SATA cables are really nice to use also. What I may have to do is start with a list of recommended parts, and howto links, or something?
 
loneindustries said:
Ryleh, thank you for the ideas. I have thought about offering custom PicoPSU wiring. When you say "LP GPU backplates", are you referring to expansion slot covers? Nice flexible SATA cables are really nice to use also. What I may have to do is start with a list of recommended parts, and howto links, or something?
Click to expand...

No, I meant backplates for common low profile GPUs. Metal or acrylic would work. A few extra bucks for slot covers would work too. Making one with the connectors for more USB ports could be nice though. Didn't cross my mind. Something like this could work. I would be willing to pay around $10 USD for each part. If you were to find a way to get them turned horizontally you could easily fit 4 of them. If you could source the parts and get the delicate solder work one made from scratch would be great.

A recommended parts list could be nice. A simple flash app with crude depictions(abstract) of how various motherboards fits in would be nice. If you were to sell replacement cables it could calculate the length and if possible whether or not various (recommended) heatsinks fits. TDP/PSU related stuff would be icing on the cake.

Here's another idea, custom cover for the connectivity area(?). Not sure what to call it but the (usually silver) ports where the audio/USB/DVI stuff is.
 
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I have submitted the L2 to manufacturing! If all goes well they'll be available in 4-6 weeks. Despite the lower than expected pre-order turn-out, I've gone ahead with a batch of 20 cases (13 matte black, and 7 matte white). That means, at the time of this message you can still pre-order an L2.
 
Loneindustries - I think you could have the OP dedicated in sections to a host of tutorials/how to's and guides for working alongside respective cases. A list of parts that are recommended to work inside one of your cases in case someone happened to pick up a case via stumbling upon. I cannot stress how helpful a coolers guide would be for this project since I've already spent about 3 days looking high and low for a cooler compatible with my unit and just last night decided to bite the bullet and remove the ridged heatspreaders on my Ridgbacks.

If that is a little beyond the scope then maybe make consecutive posts after mine and have them linked into the OP for the sake of those interested in getting an L2 chassis.

As for the pre-order, I'm yet trying t work some agendas out in order to meet that pre-order commitment.

Ryleh - are you talking about port covers? I personally was interested in suggesting the idea of front panel connectivity for the L2 or the latter revisions however I think the aesthetics of the case would be tampered with. Though since we are talking about some improvements, maybe have the power switch relocated tot eh top of the case alongside the fans and I think Lone could introduce some method of illumination for the HDD activity led. I dunno about other folks but I kinda like having a reset button and If some of you are like me where you have a anti-vandal switch with illumination, I love how the ring illumination works when hooked upto the HDD activity headers. Maybe then can we have some USB headers along the top for connectivity purposes. Ofc I'm looking at the case while it is standing vertically it would also look cool with the above suggestions if the case were laid on its side like a set top box.
 
It probably wouldn't be too hard to come up with a list of coolers that will work in the case. I'm a little limited on time though, and don't see myself giving up my day job anytime soon! ;)

Here's a start:

90 mm:
- Noctua NH-L9i
- Noctua NH-L9a
- Noctua NH-L12 (low profile mode)
- Phanteks PH-TC90LS
- Silverstone NT07

120 mm:
- Cooler Master GeminiII M4
- NEXUS LOW-7000 R2 (w/ low profile fan)
- Prolimatech Samuel 17 (w/ low profile fan)
- Scythe Big Shuriken 2
- Thermalright AXP100

Other:
- Stock heatsink w/ add-on fan
 
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Haha, I wouldn't want you to either mate!

Well, thanks for the headsup on the cooler info! :) Looks like we are making more progress...

Would heatsinks like this fit inside the L2 ? seeing how the Zalman CNPS7500 was crammed inside there by cbinvb

:)
 
Lutfij said:
Haha, I wouldn't want you to either mate!

Well, thanks for the headsup on the cooler info! :) Looks like we are making more progress...

Would heatsinks like this fit inside the L2 ? seeing how the Zalman CNPS7500 was crammed inside there by cbinvb

:)
Click to expand...

Sorry lufti, that cooler master is too tall. You have a total of 80mm of height off the cpu to work with and if you plan on approaching that you'll need to consider putting a vent over the fan lest you severely hamstring your cooler.
 
commander_ said:
Hello, I was wondering if this build would work for the L2.

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Commander_/saved/4iML

I need an extra pair of eyes! :p
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Yes, it looks like it will work.

Only serious issues I see: Only two 80 x 25 mm fans will actually fit in the L2 with this setup. I'm not familiar with the filter. You might run into fit issues?

Considerations: The 1TB mechanical drive will probably be the loudest component in the case. Also, unless it's changed the Noctua FR-8 will have very long wiring.
 
commander_ said:
Hello, I was wondering if this build would work for the L2.

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Commander_/saved/4iML

I need an extra pair of eyes! :p
Click to expand...

If you get the PWM version of the fans, they have short wiring with optional extension: http://pcpartpicker.com/part/noctua-case-fan-nfr8pwm

Edit: loneindustries, I came to agree that pico PSU is the best way to go for what your cases are and for their market: very small form factor.

I would still like to see these in the next iteration as I think it would make your case even more attractive:

1) Add a 120mm/140mm size grill on the side of the case, without any fan screw holes. I would actually make the whole side perforated. No screw holes would make the case much nicer. Grill can be made a bit denser than how it is now, similar to slanted grills Lian Li uses, or similar to backside grills on Jonsbo UMX2.

2) Drop the two 80mm fans at the top, shorten the case, lose the fan holes, keep the grills but make them match the side grill. I would also make the whole top perforated. This top grill would be the natural exhaust as the top-down CPU cooler draws fresh air in from the side.

This way, the case can be at least 25mm shorter, it would nicely accommodate CPU coolers up to 75mm height, it would cool the CPU better, it would be more silent with less fans, and it would look better without fan holes (except maybe the one on the bottom).
 
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There's already a case that does a flex ATX plus double wide low profile GPU, but you need to roll the dice on aliexpress ;) Seriously now that I'm on the brick I don't see the issue, in fact quite the opposite the ATX PSU is the biggest limiting factor for SFF. The flex ATX I was messing around with was fairly noisy and would have required silencing, and a much larger box to use without heavy modding.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Mini-ITX-HTPC-Computer-Case-All-Aluminum-with-original-250w-power-supply-Desert-Eagle-1/413246_760081770.html
 
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:) I think that case is commercially available as an In win H frame Itx but quite frankly you can pretty much get that sort of support from In win's entire ITX lineup with an included flex PSU.
 
theGryphon said:
Edit: loneindustries, I came to agree that pico PSU is the best way to go for what your cases are and for their market: very small form factor.
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Happy to hear that! :)

theGryphon said:
I would still like to see these in the next iteration as I think it would make your case even more attractive:

1) Add a 120mm/140mm size grill on the side of the case, without any fan screw holes. I would actually make the whole side perforated. No screw holes would make the case much nicer. Grill can be made a bit denser than how it is now, similar to slanted grills Lian Li uses, or similar to backside grills on Jonsbo UMX2.

2) Drop the two 80mm fans at the top, shorten the case, lose the fan holes, keep the grills but make them match the side grill. I would also make the whole top perforated. This top grill would be the natural exhaust as the top-down CPU cooler draws fresh air in from the side.

This way, the case can be at least 25mm shorter, it would nicely accommodate CPU coolers up to 75mm height, it would cool the CPU better, it would be more silent with less fans, and it would look better without fan holes (except maybe the one on the bottom).
Click to expand...

I think I have that exact case already modelled. I just have a few concerns:

1a. With a side vent, and no case fans exhausting air, how well would this work for people running low-profile, or stock coolers? Whole side perforated might be possible if the holes are spread out. Warping becomes a serious concern.

1b. No screws on side panels: Only supplier I've found has limited sizes which would require either an anodized finish, and/or thinner aluminum. There's also a good chance for wear/scratching, and fit issues. The fit issues could be addressed I imagine by using some additional bracing to make sure things are squared up exactly for the slide-on side panels. Anyway, definitely something I've been looking into, but it would require a prototype to test things out.

Pros for screws are that they are simple, customizable, durable (makes the case very rigid), and not very noticeable.

2. This was originally what I wanted to do with the L2, because I hated to make the L1 bigger. You don't get exactly 25 mm less height, but maybe 10-15 mm as you need a certain amount of metal around the IO shield cutout. Still, if this would work well, you wouldn't have to deal with case fans or their wires at all.

That said, it's not bad to have the option of case fans up top. I could make a vented side panel for the L2, and you'd have the free space up top for wiring, and a single case fan if you wanted a little more air flow to draw air into those openings to feed the components.

This is an old image I posted awhile ago. The fans in the bottom are just shown as an option:

10215266204_e4627d74ea_b.jpg
 
loneindustries said:
Happy to hear that! :)

I think I have that exact case already modelled. I just have a few concerns:

1a. With a side vent, and no case fans exhausting air, how well would this work for people running low-profile, or stock coolers? Whole side perforated might be possible if the holes are spread out. Warping becomes a serious concern.

1b. No screws on side panels: Only supplier I've found has limited sizes which would require either an anodized finish, and/or thinner aluminum. There's also a good chance for wear/scratching, and fit issues. The fit issues could be addressed I imagine by using some additional bracing to make sure things are squared up exactly for the slide-on side panels. Anyway, definitely something I've been looking into, but it would require a prototype to test things out.

Pros for screws are that they are simple, customizable, durable (makes the case very rigid), and not very noticeable.

2. This was originally what I wanted to do with the L2, because I hated to make the L1 bigger. You don't get exactly 25 mm less height, but maybe 10-15 mm as you need a certain amount of metal around the IO shield cutout. Still, if this would work well, you wouldn't have to deal with case fans or their wires at all.

That said, it's not bad to have the option of case fans up top. I could make a vented side panel for the L2, and you'd have the free space up top for wiring, and a single case fan if you wanted a little more air flow to draw air into those openings to feed the components.

This is an old image I posted awhile ago. The fans in the bottom are just shown as an option:

10215266204_e4627d74ea_b.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for responding ;)

1a. I think it would work great since hot air would easily escape from the top. Those users must be running a low-power setup anyway, and the airflow direction for stock coolers is for air to go in from the top (where the case lets fresh air in on the side), and hot air to be spread around (which will rise to exhaust from the top of the case).

Yeah, whole side perforated would be possible only with a thickness of at least 2mm. From aesthetics and rigidity point of view, you can leave the edges solid just to cover the frame. I don't know the material thickness but at least a 140x140mm2 area should be feasible. No?

1b. I was rather thinking no fans to be attached on the side panel at all. Let the fan on the CPU cooler do the job. After market coolers some of which you listed have very good fans or fan installation capabilities. The fan on the CPU cooler would draw fresh air in from the side and hot air would exhaust from the top. Currently with L1 and L2, the fan on the CPU cooler is suffocating since the only way for it to get air in is from the bottom of the case, and that air is likely to be warmed up by the GPU; if one uses the top 80mm fans, then the airflow is confused and there is no way for hot air to escape.


2. Yeah, you're right, not exactly 25mm but from direct comparison, I estimate 20mm savings. That would match L1's height of 200mm even with second pci slot. Yep, take out two 80mm fans and their cables! With only one large, silent, high air-flow fan on the CPU cooler, the setup would be very efficient.


True that with a perforated side panel option on L2, it's close. But vents on the top being too large and having fan screw holes, I think distracts the aesthetics of the case. Finer perforations with no fan holes, plus saving 20mm from the height, I think this idea would please many in a new iteration.

Also, any thoughts on having front IO? Audio and 2 USB3 maybe? Or, you decided that it's too much?
 
Lutfij said:
:) I think that case is commercially available as an In win H frame Itx but quite frankly you can pretty much get that sort of support from In win's entire ITX lineup with an included flex PSU.
Click to expand...

About the only resemblance to the h-frame is where the drives go, it's only single slot and very tight at that, with an even smaller supply sporting a reportedly noisy 40mm fan. Most of In Wins stuff is dicked up with 5 1/4" drive slots and shitty plastic, but yeah some of those B series are similar.
 
theGryphon said:
Thanks for responding ;)

1a. I think it would work great since hot air would easily escape from the top. Those users must be running a low-power setup anyway, and the airflow direction for stock coolers is for air to go in from the top (where the case lets fresh air in on the side), and hot air to be spread around (which will rise to exhaust from the top of the case).

Yeah, whole side perforated would be possible only with a thickness of at least 2mm. From aesthetics and rigidity point of view, you can leave the edges solid just to cover the frame. I don't know the material thickness but at least a 140x140mm2 area should be feasible. No?
Click to expand...

It may be worth looking into further and testing to verify results.

I wouldn't perforate the whole side panel. It's do-able using the current material, but I'd have to have some prototypes made to make sure there's no warping issues.

theGryphon said:
1b. I was rather thinking no fans to be attached on the side panel at all. Let the fan on the CPU cooler do the job. After market coolers some of which you listed have very good fans or fan installation capabilities. The fan on the CPU cooler would draw fresh air in from the side and hot air would exhaust from the top.
Click to expand...

I totally agree, this is my thinking/preference also with a vented side panel. Ideally you'd still have some clearance between the side panel and the fan.

theGryphon said:
Currently with L1 and L2, the fan on the CPU cooler is suffocating since the only way for it to get air in is from the bottom of the case, and that air is likely to be warmed up by the GPU; if one uses the top 80mm fans, then the airflow is confused and there is no way for hot air to escape.
Click to expand...

To say that the fan on the CPU cooler is suffocating in an L1 and L2 isn't really an accurate statement. It depends on your hardware. People are free to push the boundaries of the design if they want, but you can't fault the design because of it. For example, if I put a huge turbo in my Toyota Pickup, and the turbo doesn't fit under the hood, it's not Toyota's fault that I have to cut a hole in the hood! (Note: I have not actually cut a hole in my hood). :)

Also, it's important to remember that the GPU heatsink isn't a solid block of aluminum that completely blocks the bottom vent. When I originally designed the L1, I actually didn't know that people would put a HD 7750 LP in it. :)

Anyway, I agree a vented side panel has it's place, and would match up well with some larger CPU coolers really well. The last time I asked if people wanted to buy a vented side panel though, I only had a couple people say they would like one. If it was included with the case, maybe more would like that? But then what about the people who don't want one (or is that just me?!)? ;)

theGryphon said:
2. Yeah, you're right, not exactly 25mm but from direct comparison, I estimate 20mm savings. That would match L1's height of 200mm even with second pci slot. Yep, take out two 80mm fans and their cables! With only one large, silent, high air-flow fan on the CPU cooler, the setup would be very efficient.

True that with a perforated side panel option on L2, it's close. But vents on the top being too large and having fan screw holes, I think distracts the aesthetics of the case. Finer perforations with no fan holes, plus saving 20mm from the height, I think this idea would please many in a new iteration.

Also, any thoughts on having front IO? Audio and 2 USB3 maybe? Or, you decided that it's too much?
Click to expand...

I'm not totally against front IO.

L1 is actually 220 mm tall, but yes the L2 without top case fans would be close to that. I'll definitely take your suggestions into consideration. The L1, and subsequently the L2 are really designed based on my tastes. Actually, I wouldn't even go as far as saying I designed it. I un-designed it, and under-engineered it! ;)

I'm not sure what the future has in store. The L2 may be the last thing I do.
 
Who would be willing to pay a little more (not sure, maybe $15-20) and have a vented side panel included with their L2 order?
 
Steve_ - True about the similarities, I suppose I've had a long day and the two cases seemed to look like one :p

You're spot on about that noisy 40mm fan mounted inside that PSU. I've been seeing some people report that the PSU found within the EVGA Hadron has some squealing stories of its own. Can't remember the link but pretty much a rare occurrence. Not the same that can be said about a (not so grand) brand name that is very popular in China.

Lone - would the venting on the side panel be identical to that found on the top and bottom of the L2? Has the rigidity been taken into account? since removal of material form a side panel may may it a little flimsy.

On a side note, J, what sort of packaging are we looking at here? Since I live in Bangladesh, the package may end up getting thrown all over the place and some bolstering may be needed.
 
Lutfij said:
Lone - would the venting on the side panel be identical to that found on the top and bottom of the L2? Has the rigidity been taken into account? since removal of material form a side panel may may it a little flimsy.

On a side note, J, what sort of packaging are we looking at here? Since I live in Bangladesh, the package may end up getting thrown all over the place and some bolstering may be needed.
Click to expand...

Most likely, it would not be like the top and bottom vents.

I haven't heard of anyone receiving a damaged product yet, so I think packaging is good.
 
Lutfij said:
Lone - would the venting on the side panel be identical to that found on the top and bottom of the L2? Has the rigidity been taken into account? since removal of material form a side panel may may it a little flimsy.
Click to expand...

Well, the best implementation would have finer perforations, which would be sturdier. Consider for example the perforations on top of Lian Li PCQ25. Think of these perforations in a large areo on the side, not the whole side panel:
4-Q25.jpg


What I have in mind is something like Jonsbo V3:
T2sHf2XdVaXXXXXXXX_!!481328995.jpg
 
Of course, the best implementation would have all the perforations match :) but I guess it's possible only in the next iteration...
 
theGryphon said:
Well, the best implementation would have finer perforations, which would be sturdier. Consider for example the perforations on top of Lian Li PCQ25. Think of these perforations in a large areo on the side, not the whole side panel:
Click to expand...

Thank you for the pictures. These companies likely have cluster punches, which can punch many holes at once. I'll see what I can do though.
 
Yeah, they would certainly have some advanced capabilities. The perforations need not match anything out there, I was just trying to give an idea with the pictures :)
 
Personally I'd rather have the case fans at the top, then at least you can have an exhaust or two exhaust fans moving air out of the case, and even even though there is minimal ventilation, it's definitely better than none.

I worry that the side panel vents may hinder the fans to do their job exhausting hot air out of the case, as depending on the placement of the vents, they could just as easily pull cooler air from the vents and then just vent it out the top.I could be really wrong though.
 
Daemos said:
Personally I'd rather have the case fans at the top, then at least you can have an exhaust or two exhaust fans moving air out of the case, and even even though there is minimal ventilation, it's definitely better than none.

I worry that the side panel vents may hinder the fans to do their job exhausting hot air out of the case, as depending on the placement of the vents, they could just as easily pull cooler air from the vents and then just vent it out the top.I could be really wrong though.
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Well, once you have the side panel vented, having fans on the top would really have marginal effect on temps, and observe what you're trading off. Two more fans, two sources of additional noise, extra volume for a case whose sole purpose is to be small, extra cables, and worse aesthetics. I would agree if this case was supposed to house a GTX780 or something, like the Raven RVZ01 where any fan/vent counts. But this case will most likely house a GTX750Ti at most, and the component that needs the most cooling is the CPU which will be taken care of the top-down CPU cooler that will draw in fresh air from the vented side. That hot air will naturally escape from the top due to the pressure created by the CPU fan, and the fact that hot air rises.

A vented side panel and no fans on top makes sense on all fronts; cooling, compatibility (since the case will be able to accommodate larger top-down coolers), silence, case size, case aesthetics, inside-case clutter.
 
Again, it's nice to say that in theory...but the only way to know for sure is to use a coloured smoke machine and see where airflow stagnates and where airflow moves.

I live in a sub tropical climate, I'd rather have the extra fans + panel if needed. Than no fans. But I do see where you are coming from.
 
So I did a little experiment that kind of validates both sides, ran with TV card gets CPU to 41-42C and mobo to 35-36C, then pulled the cover off CPU dropped to 39C but mobo went up to 36-37C. Ambient 26.5C.

So it appears the fans stop sucking air over the mobo, but CPU gets better ventilation as you'd think. Who knows how well the perforated panel would work, thinking now maybe not worth the effort. The 80mm noiseblockers are running really slow(140mm at 400RPM) as they have a bit of a buzz to them at higher revs plus you get air wooshing over the grille noise.
 
Stevo_ said:
So I did a little experiment that kind of validates both sides, ran with TV card gets CPU to 41-42C and mobo to 35-36C, then pulled the cover off CPU dropped to 39C but mobo went up to 36-37C. Ambient 26.5C.

So it appears the fans stop sucking air over the mobo, but CPU gets better ventilation as you'd think. Who knows how well the perforated panel would work, thinking now maybe not worth the effort. The 80mm noiseblockers are running really slow(140mm at 400RPM) as they have a bit of a buzz to them at higher revs plus you get air wooshing over the grille noise.
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Yeah I'm thinking, if the perforation was just near the GPU slots (like a small line, not an entire panel) and just extended a little above, then the fans could pull fresh air from the bottom up...to have good air flow.
 
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