Logitech G430 7.1 Surround Sound Gaming Headset - $40

Are they any good? My experiences with surround headphones has been pretty bad.
 
GORANKAR said:
Are they any good? My experiences with surround headphones has been pretty bad.
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I have the wireless version G930 which also have 7.1 and I will say the positional sound is decent, there's only so much you can do however from a stereo source to mimic true positional sound. Definitely better than something like Dolby Surround headsets from a source trying to mimic surround sound (EAX sound card with CMSS-3D enabled).

The nice thing about these wired headsets is they allow you to unplug the 3.5mm miniplug so you can plug them in directly to a sound card or amp if you prefer.

Also as an FYI, the wired version G930s have been on sale for as little as $65-70 around the holidays each year and generally go for ~$80 on sale throughout the year, so if you prefer a wireless version you may keep an eye out for those.
 
GORANKAR said:
Are they any good? My experiences with surround headphones has been pretty bad.
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This is my first real surround sound headphone setup and I have to say tinkering around in CS:Go, it isn't too bad. I can definitely distinguish where the bullets and footsteps are coming from. I had a early generation Gamecom 5.1 setup but that was a joke.
 
I've found true surround sound headsets to be much better than the virtual one I tried (G930 in my case). The G930 sounded worse than my stereo HD555's while my new tiamats have amazing positional audio.
 
hajalie24 said:
I've found true surround sound headsets to be much better than the virtual one I tried (G930 in my case). The G930 sounded worse than my stereo HD555's while my new tiamats have amazing positional audio.
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what kind of offerings are out there for true surround sound headsets?
 
Razer Tiamat 7.1 is what I have and really enjoy. People are probably going to crap all over this post saying you can get better sound out of stereo headphones plus virtualization software but in my experience it just doesn't compare. I had a Turtle Beach 5.1 headset before and even that was much much better at positional audio than my HD555s.

I'm not too sure on the other true surround sound headsets, I know there's quite a few, but I think the Razer is the only true 7.1 headset, unless that changed recently.
 
hajalie24 said:
I've found true surround sound headsets to be much better than the virtual one I tried (G930 in my case). The G930 sounded worse than my stereo HD555's while my new tiamats have amazing positional audio.
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gc86 said:
what kind of offerings are out there for true surround sound headsets?
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There aren't many, mostly just marketing gimmicks.

Tritton tried a set with 7-8 tiny speakers in the cups, which failed. Sounded like crap, and when speakers are against your ears, you only need one each. Multiple tiny speakers that close interfere with each other and the speakers are too small to give full clear sound.

If the headphones are designed well for stereo positional audio, and the game dev codes the sound right, you don't need "surround" for headphones. You will get better positional audio from stereo. Surround is only needed for speaker sets due to distance and placement.

https://teksyndicate.com/videos/gaming-audio-myths-avoid-bs-save-your-audio-life
Go to ~13min in the vid.


The Beyerdynamic DT990 Pros are great for positional audio, and are open design, super comfortable, and best part of not having an inline or USB DSP, 0 hiss/fuzz.
 
It's very difficult to tell if a sound came from behind or in front of me with my HD555s. It was easier to tell sounds coming somewhere to the side of me, but it was still iffy and you really couldn't aim your sights at a spot until you actually see the person.

With my tiamats it's absolutely clear that a sound was behind me. The gap between where a player might be is less than my old headphones too.

I guess every game I played with the headphones for the past 4 years were just coded wrong, and also the CMSS-3D in my sound card was also coded wrong.

Edit: I know about virtual barbershop, but went to the video again this time skipping straight to the middle, and yea it was hard to tell where he was even when he was moving. Not sure if there's a higher quality option I secretly have to do or if virtual barbershop is really just your brain telling you where he is from past ques.

edit again: It was something wrong with my 3.5mm extension cable, the virtual barbershop is still indeed impressive, but I've never seen a game implement sounds as well as it. I also wonder if it's because there isn't much going on as you would get in a video game.
 
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Tiamats have awful sound quailty, even for gaming headsets which are not known for it. I bought a pair after reading good reviews about them to replace my worn out 930's. Ended up returning them in 3 days and getting the 430s instead, boomy bass and distortion on highs and lows, and Im the type that doesnt return anything.
 
Cecil said:
There aren't many, mostly just marketing gimmicks.

Tritton tried a set with 7-8 tiny speakers in the cups, which failed. Sounded like crap, and when speakers are against your ears, you only need one each. Multiple tiny speakers that close interfere with each other and the speakers are too small to give full clear sound.

If the headphones are designed well for stereo positional audio, and the game dev codes the sound right, you don't need "surround" for headphones. You will get better positional audio from stereo. Surround is only needed for speaker sets due to distance and placement.

https://teksyndicate.com/videos/gaming-audio-myths-avoid-bs-save-your-audio-life
Go to ~13min in the vid.

The Beyerdynamic DT990 Pros are great for positional audio, and are open design, super comfortable, and best part of not having an inline or USB DSP, 0 hiss/fuzz.
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Is it just me or does the volume in virtual barbershop seem prominent on the right side? I disabled the Dolby surround feature on my headsets and it seems louder on the right, albeit with it enabled it sounds balanced.
 
hajalie24 said:
Razer Tiamat 7.1 is what I have and really enjoy. People are probably going to crap all over this post saying you can get better sound out of stereo headphones plus virtualization software but in my experience it just doesn't compare. I had a Turtle Beach 5.1 headset before and even that was much much better at positional audio than my HD555s.
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tobi54 said:
Tiamats have awful sound quailty, even for gaming headsets which are not known for it. I bought a pair after reading good reviews about them to replace my worn out 930's. Ended up returning them in 3 days and getting the 430s instead, boomy bass and distortion on highs and lows, and Im the type that doesnt return anything.
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Hahahaha.

Anyways - I think Cecil is right. I would think that virtualization would make a lot of sense. Your ears work in stereo and it is my understanding that positional effects with your ears are worked out with timing, meaning stereo headphones with virtualization could do a better job since they would be able to sound right, and not waste space with extra (and tiny) little speakers. Granted, I've never heard surround headphones of any sort.

I bit on this deal, I need a new headset.
 
Draxanoth said:
I've had a pair of Sennheisers for 20 years, how long do $40 Logitechs usually last?
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Oh don't get me wrong, I'm sure the Sennheisers are superior products in many respects. But the person shelling out $40 for a PC gaming headset is NOT the kind of person to be in the market for a $250 headset.
Different parts for different markets. My point was that it's kind of silly to throw out a suggestion for a Ferrari in a thread about Camarys.
 
werdnahman said:
Hahahaha.

Anyways - I think Cecil is right. I would think that virtualization would make a lot of sense. Your ears work in stereo and it is my understanding that positional effects with your ears are worked out with timing, meaning stereo headphones with virtualization could do a better job since they would be able to sound right, and not waste space with extra (and tiny) little speakers. Granted, I've never heard surround headphones of any sort.

I bit on this deal, I need a new headset.
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Our ears work in stereo? Do our eyes work in 60 fps too?

Timing isn't helpful when playing a game. You're not going to get hints like in virtual barbershop that will tell your brain that one faint gunshot you heard is actually right.behind you. In myexperience the sound from behind you and in front of you is sightly different with stereo headphones, but its so slight that will all the chaos usually going on it can be hard to tell.
 
hajalie24 said:
Timing isn't helpful when playing a game. You're not going to get hints like in virtual barbershop that will tell your brain that one faint gunshot you heard is actually right.behind you. In myexperience the sound from behind you and in front of you is sightly different with stereo headphones, but its so slight that will all the chaos usually going on it can be hard to tell.
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I switched from Astro A40s to Beyerdynamic DT990 Pros, and the DT990s have better positional audio to me. Not to mention they sound 100x better with 0 hiss, and are far more comfortable.


You really need a pair of stereo headsets that are physically designed to handle positional audio well. Turning surround headphones to stereo mode, or using stereo headphones that are not designed for positional audio does not work the same.

With Amazon's super easy return policy, I suggest buying the DT990s and giving them a shot, even if you end up returning them. They really should be coupled with a good amp, but even without they are great.
 
Modred189 said:
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm sure the Sennheisers are superior products in many respects. But the person shelling out $40 for a PC gaming headset is NOT the kind of person to be in the market for a $250 headset.
Different parts for different markets. My point was that it's kind of silly to throw out a suggestion for a Ferrari in a thread about Camarys.
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Who decides that it is silly? Even if we pretend you must spend $250 to get a good set, personally I think it's worth encouraging someone to save their money and buy something of high quality instead of buying low quality stuff over and over again.

Additionally, discrete surround sound headphones are a scam. There isn't enough space inside that area to produce surround sound without digital effect. The same digital effect can be applied to stereo headphones, so even if you were going to only spend $40, why wouldn't you buy a $40 set of stereo headphones that will likely have far better capability purely because the drivers aren't a half inch in diameter?
 
I bought them for my wife in the other deal thread, to replace her G35. For what features it has, it is very solid. Worth 40-50 dollars to a gamer or anyone looking at them for comfortable multifunction use, for sure. Easily. No question about it.
 
Cecil said:
I switched from Astro A40s to Beyerdynamic DT990 Pros, and the DT990s have better positional audio to me. Not to mention they sound 100x better with 0 hiss, and are far more comfortable.


You really need a pair of stereo headsets that are physically designed to handle positional audio well. Turning surround headphones to stereo mode, or using stereo headphones that are not designed for positional audio does not work the same.

With Amazon's super easy return policy, I suggest buying the DT990s and giving them a shot, even if you end up returning them. They really should be coupled with a good amp, but even without they are great.
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But.. the A40s are just stereo headphones...

I have the HD555s, I think they count as good positional headphones. Though in my opinion they're not as good as the actual headsets with more than 2 speakers in them that I've tried. Way more comfortable though.

I actually planned on using Amazon's return policy on the Tiamats, since everyone was saying surround sound headsets suck. But after playing the titanfall beta with them I can tell you the positional sound is amazing and my HD555s don't come close.

If you haven't tried them I recommend trying them with a game like Titanfall with 7.1 support and lots of chaos going on. No doubt you'll probably think the sound quality is worse, I don't really recognize that stuff, but I don't know if you can say your stereo headphones are better for positional audio.
 
hajalie24 said:
But.. the A40s are just stereo headphones...

I have the HD555s, I think they count as good positional headphones. Though in my opinion they're not as good as the actual headsets with more than 2 speakers in them that I've tried. Way more comfortable though.

I actually planned on using Amazon's return policy on the Tiamats, since everyone was saying surround sound headsets suck. But after playing the titanfall beta with them I can tell you the positional sound is amazing and my HD555s don't come close.

If you haven't tried them I recommend trying them with a game like Titanfall with 7.1 support and lots of chaos going on. No doubt you'll probably think the sound quality is worse, I don't really recognize that stuff, but I don't know if you can say your stereo headphones are better for positional audio.
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I think most people who buy surround sound headphones don't really understand how surround sound works. How effective your headphones are at positional depends on the sound they are asked to reproduce, not how many speakers are inside the headphones.

Sound position is "felt" because of how the sound travels to you, bouncing off surfaces, penetrating your ear tissues, etc. 3, 5, 7 or 10 speakers in a set of headphones has no impact because they are sitting right on your ear canal, they cannot reproduce positional audio of any great value without software. Most 7.1 headsets come with software or USB interfaces that perform the mixing that takes 7.1 and emulates position. Having extra speakers is not what provides that effect.

That same mixing can be applied to stereo headphones if you configure it properly, but it's not as user proof as plug and play surround sound headphones are. You may not have a sound card with software for it, or games configured incorrectly, etc. One of the most common mistakes I see is someone changing their game audio to standard speaker stereo. Some have a "headphones" mode, but lots don't. If your game is outputting stereo sound you've already removed the surround sound channels, or it's emulating surround sound for speakers that are sitting in front of you, not on the sides of your head. In my case, I output 7.1 audio from games to mixing software/hardware, and it emulates that sound into surround sound stereo for headphones. One of the weirdest things you will ever hear is surround sound emulation software attempting to turn stereo output from a game into surround sound for your ears. Properly set up though, 2 large drivers in your headphones will provide far better audio than 10 small ones, and the positional will be just as good because they both need the same emulation to replicate it.
 
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The headsets I've used are purely analog with the USB for power only, no drivers etc.

So you actually set games to 7.1? That's different, I've always set it to stereo/headphones mode. Admittedly I never spent much time using software/tweaking. Pretty much everyone claimed that setting your games to stereo was all you really needed. I tried with CMSS-3D on my sound card too, both times set to stereo/headphones, for years and it never was pinpoint accurate with positions.

What software/hardware do you use? I currently don't have my sound card and I'll probably be doing all testing on a laptop anyway, but I'm still curious and would like to see if I really can get it to sound just the same or better than my 7.1 headset. I know with the G930s I tried that have virtualization I didn't really feel anything, but I'm pretty sure I had it set to stereo.
 
hajalie24 said:
The headsets I've used are purely analog with the USB for power only, no drivers etc.

So you actually set games to 7.1? That's different, I've always set it to stereo/headphones mode. Admittedly I never spent much time using software/tweaking. Pretty much everyone claimed that setting your games to stereo was all you really needed. I tried with CMSS-3D on my sound card too, both times set to stereo/headphones, for years and it never was pinpoint accurate with positions.

What software/hardware do you use? I currently don't have my sound card and I'll probably be doing all testing on a laptop anyway, but I'm still curious and would like to see if I really can get it to sound just the same or better than my 7.1 headset. I know with the G930s I tried that have virtualization I didn't really feel anything, but I'm pretty sure I had it set to stereo.
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I'd need to know the model to tell you how it might work if it really is providing solid surround. I expect though you might iron out the options on your sound card and blow your mind with how marginal it was before. Also keep in mind some games do their own virtual surround, so when you set your computer to "2 speakers" the AAA titles might have their own surround emulation going.

Since the beginning of time it has always been you set your games/control panel/sound control to match your speaker count. Most people never think twice about it, so they set it to 2 because their headphones have 2. Surround emulation though needs that 5.1/7.1 input to mix it into virtual surround, if it never receives those channels from the game it doesn't have positional audio to mix. And some games support their own headphone emulation, I think Battlefield 3 is one of them; sending pre-mixed surround emulation into a sound card that is again mixing it for surround emulation... it's ugly.

I have SBX? Whatever the newest Creative version is. It seems to work spectacular on WoT and the zombie games I've been playing. When arty lands behind me it's a HOLY &*$(@ moment. You really do have to have it set up right though. When my control panel auto changed to 2.1 and I was mixing it for surround emulation it sounded like I was 2 miles down a mine shaft, every sound reverberated from all sides.

The old Creative one worked good too. CMSS? or was that the crystallizer nonsense? Anyway, it had a name, and it seemed to work great in games.

My friend is always touting Dolby Headphone, but I've always thought it worked better for movies than games. Might depend on taste of sound I suppose.

Razer has one that might be free. At least when I got it, it was free. I haven't ever tried it though since I've always had a sound card, I just figured it might be good to have a free copy in case I wanted to use it on my laptop. I'll give it a test run and shoot you a PM.
 
let me sum up everything you need to know about gaming audio. The headphones with a bunch of speakers in them don't work well in general, because they are too close together. If you get fancy with an elaborate design, maybe they can work well, but I suspect most of them don't work well. What you want is something that does surround sound through digital processing.

This logitech headset does do the surround digitally, but you're essentially paying for an external usb sound card and headphones. What would work better imo is to just get a sound card that has the digital processing and use any set of headphones you want, preferably open back with large angled drivers. Alternatives to buying the sound card are using razer surround, which does the processing in software, or possibly relying on the headphone setting in the game, but the latter is too inconsistent between games. The headphone setting in BF4 for example, seems like just a simple stereo downmix with a bass boost.

If you go this route, you need to make sure the game is set up to output surround sound, windows is set up not to downmix surround sound (control panel>audio>configure speakers to 5.1/7.1), and that dolby headphone/cmss 3d headphone/razer surround is on. The audio goes from the application, through windows, before it reaches the headphone processing, and you wanna make sure all the channels are maintained till it's converted to a headphone mix, so that the hardware/software knows the relative positions of the sounds.

Another thing to keep an eye out is for owners of hawaii gpu, amd can release something like razer surround that can work on the audio dsp on the graphics card, allowing you to forgo buying a sound card.
 
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