Liquid Hydrogen Cooling?

kronchev

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Originally posted by mwarps
Below about 150K, silicon goes into a regime known as freeze-out.

The dopants in the lattice sites are no longer electrically active because there is almost no possibility of the electrons reaching the conduction band from the valence band. This means silicon starts acting like an insulator, and no longer a semiconductor. Devices no worky when so coldy.
yeh I learned that when I was in rochester too...although not from a class, from trying to use my computer :D
 

mwarps

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Originally posted by kronchev
yeh I learned that when I was in rochester too...although not from a class, from trying to use my computer :D
Did you keep it outside in the middle of winter? :p:D
 

kronchev

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Originally posted by mwarps
Did you keep it outside in the middle of winter? :p:D
might as well, my roommate didnt like having the heat on for some reason....damn weird upstate new yorkers
 

Stang Man

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at 0k... everything stops moving, ALL molecular motion stops. Electrons will collapse into their nucleus. what this is doing, is creating a vacuum now. what is a small vacuum? a baby black hole..

good bye everything around us :bye:

0K will never be reached by scientists, because each time you take away energy from it, you gotta put some into it. it's like dividing by 2 EACH time. divide 1 by 2, and see when you get to zero. NEVER.

Also, there is a temperature when molecules begin to slow down, thus making super super cooling a CPU counter-productive, not to mention the CPU's point of diminishing return.

also, scientists have accelerated particles FASTER than the speed of light.
 

lopoetve

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Originally posted by Stang Man
at 0k... everything stops moving, ALL molecular motion stops. Electrons will collapse into their nucleus. what this is doing, is creating a vacuum now. what is a small vacuum? a baby black hole..

good bye everything around us :bye:

0K will never be reached by scientists, because each time you take away energy from it, you gotta put some into it. it's like dividing by 2 EACH time. divide 1 by 2, and see when you get to zero. NEVER.

Also, there is a temperature when molecules begin to slow down, thus making super super cooling a CPU counter-productive, not to mention the CPU's point of diminishing return.

also, scientists have accelerated particles FASTER than the speed of light.
Um, vacuum != black hole, buddy. A black hole is a quantum-level tear in space-time, or extreme bend (depending on the theory you believe, Hawking or the guy he made the bet against), as far as we can tell, caused by an extreme field of gravitons (gravity). Again, you have no proof that the electrons will stop moving, just as we have no proof that they won't. They may fly off... they may cause some kind of reaction. We have NO way of knowing.

It WON'T create a black hole though, you have no way of generating that much gravity or causing that much of a change in the surrounding material to result in a change of any note in space-time.

And, cpu's don't care about molecules. The flow of molecules does not happen, it is the flow of current due to potential differences in the circut through a conductor. The CPU speed isn't based on moving molecules.

And no, we haven't accelerated anything faster than the speed of light. We can get to .999999999 C, but not any closer (unless you'd care to post links, which would be one of the greatest scientific achievements of our time and we would know about it). We can SLOW light (magnets, lasers, and some other strange things), but we can't get anything to the universal constant C. Theory says we can go faster, but again, we don't know.
 
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Originally posted by lopoetve
And no, we haven't accelerated anything faster than the speed of light. We can get to .999999999 C, but not any closer (unless you'd care to post links, which would be one of the greatest scientific achievements of our time and we would know about it). We can SLOW light (magnets, lasers, and some other strange things), but we can't get anything to the universal constant C. Theory says we can go faster, but again, we don't know.
I think he's referring to a set of experiments where they supposedly accelerated light.
They had it shining through a tube of something and detectors showed it leaving before it reached the middle, or something like that.
I might be bothered to look for articles later.

"Theory says we can go faster, but again, we don't know."
Heh, just like all speed bumps.
Travel under the limit and you trudge up and over them.
Go faster than the limit and a good suspension makes it feel like a small bump.
But actually do the posted limit and no matter what you're in it feels like something is going to break, and the car doesn't seem to fair any better.:D
 
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Originally posted by jagec
we have good data points leading up to it, and a rock solid model that explains pretty much all the behavior the system exhibits. Taking the limit as T->0 works just as well as measuring what happens when T=0
Kind of like the infallible E=mc^2?
 

lopoetve

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Originally posted by Kadarom Douhrek
I think he's referring to a set of experiments where they supposedly accelerated light.
They had it shining through a tube of something and detectors showed it leaving before it reached the middle, or something like that.
I might be bothered to look for articles later.

"Theory says we can go faster, but again, we don't know."
Heh, just like all speed bumps.
Travel under the limit and you trudge up and over them.
Go faster than the limit and a good suspension makes it feel like a small bump.
But actually do the posted limit and no matter what you're in it feels like something is going to break, and the car doesn't seem to fair any better.:D
I think that you're still talking about when they slowed light down, using a set of lasers, powerful electromagnets, and a noble gas, IIRC.

EDIT: Teh LINKAGE!

http://www.padrak.com/ine/NEN_6_9_4.html

http://www.msnbc.com/news/242698.asp?cp1=1
 

lopoetve

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Originally posted by DruSi3r
lopoetve and mwarps r smart. teach me about string theory now
Yikes!

http://superstringtheory.com/
http://www.theory.caltech.edu/people/jhs/strings/
http://turing.wins.uva.nl/~rhd/string_theory.html
http://theory.tifr.res.in/~mukhi/Physics/string.html

Read, enjoy!

String theory has MANY flaws though, it violates several accepted laws of physics that we thought were solidly proven (a discussion of that is beyond my knowledge), and has issues with the composition of the universe.

Anyway... have fun!
 
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lopoetve

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Originally posted by Kadarom Douhrek
That might be it.
Not real interesting either way.

I mean, so what if you can speed up/slow down light, does it make my pizza get here any faster?
I think not!:p
It's a quantum thing ;)
 

tehandydumke

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wow this stuff is cool i wanna learn about this when i go into college and shit!! blackholes are fun! btw im 15
 
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You should get some helium and drop it below 2.19K, great fun.
It actually stops being helium, it becomes helium II.
Helium II has practically 0 viscosity and experiences 0 friction.
The stuff will flow upwards.;)
 

CleanSlate

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No, I heard about the experiment where they shun a laser through zeon gas or something like that and it went faster than the speed of light.

~Adam
 

Spewn

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Originally posted by CleanSlate
No, I heard about the experiment where they shun a laser through zeon gas or something like that and it went faster than the speed of light.

~Adam
I know the experiment you're talking about. They detected it exiting the tube before it should have, essentially meaning one of two things. EITHER they got light to travel faster than the speed of light, OR they got it to travel forwards through time. That's a bit more complex though ;) And in-fact, according to some(like hawking for example), they're the same thing.

BTW, 150k is only -23'C, so to whoever said silicon starts acting like an insulator at that temp probably moved the decimal place over or something, because LN2 would be WAY below that, cpu's wouldn't even function at the temperatures LN2 can drop them to if that were true. And of course, there goes the whole phase change cooling industry in relation to computers.
 

lopoetve

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Originally posted by Kadarom Douhrek
You should get some helium and drop it below 2.19K, great fun.
It actually stops being helium, it becomes helium II.
Helium II has practically 0 viscosity and experiences 0 friction.
The stuff will flow upwards.;)
Indeed :D
 

lopoetve

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Originally posted by Spewn
I know the experiment you're talking about. They detected it exiting the tube before it should have, essentially meaning one of two things. EITHER they got light to travel faster than the speed of light, OR they got it to travel forwards through time. That's a bit more complex though ;) And in-fact, according to some(like hawking for example), they're the same thing.

BTW, 150k is only -23'C, so to whoever said silicon starts acting like an insulator at that temp probably moved the decimal place over or something, because LN2 would be WAY below that, cpu's wouldn't even function at the temperatures LN2 can drop them to if that were true. And of course, there goes the whole phase change cooling industry in relation to computers.
You need to recheck your numbers, buddy... :)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=150+kelvin+in+celsius&btnG=Google+Search

Looks like 150k is -123.15 c. :) Always helps to check! (btw, its c - 273.15).

Links to that experiment? Again, I haven't heard a thing about that, and it would be pretty big, google doesn't show a thing.

If they did do that, it may just be an example of light/gravitons working strange. I won't know till I read it. Interesting concept, though! :)
 

CSx-2011

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hydrogen is too dangerous... liquid helium is something like -450F... that should be low enough, while being (semi)safe.
 

lopoetve

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Ok. To clear the air about that experiment:

No Particles went faster than light.
The Gaussian pulse that they used did not travel faster than light.
Energy did not travel faster than light.

The PEAK of a Gaussian pulse traveled faster than light.

Conventional wisdom slowly began to adapt to the idea that superluminal group velocities need not imply that the pulses are extremely distorted, as long as most of the energy in the pulse is absorbed. This absorption makes it possible for the velocity of the energy propagation, like the velocity of the information, to remain less than the speed of light regardless of the superluminal speed of a peak.
Much like the rotating lighthouse theory.

What is shocking is that such an effect has been observed for the first time without a great deal of attenuation, amplification or distortion of the pulse. It appears as though energy has, in fact, travelled faster than light.

Of course, this is not the case. The effect observed at NEC only works in the presence of an amplifying medium, i.e. a medium that stores energy. In this case the energy is stored in the pump-laser beams. The caesium atoms are prepared in a state that allows them to transfer energy from these beams to the signal beam. The faster-than-light propagation occurs because the pump beams preferentially amplify the leading edge of the incident pulse, lending power to the signal and being repaid by absorbing some of the energy in its trailing edge. (It is important to note that even the dramatic 60 ns advance is only one fiftieth of the width of the pulse.) This is exactly analogous to the intuitive explanation of normal dispersion, except that in this case the atoms temporarily amplify the light pulse rather than absorb it.
We still can't accelerate a "thing" to the speed of light :).

They are using stored energy to accelerate the tip of the wave, not the wave itself, or even it's energy... just the tip. It's very interesting.
 

Spewn

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Originally posted by CSx-2011
21.1 jigawatts!
1.21 actually :p

Anyway, that experiment is interesting regardless. I never said particles, energy, or information traveled faster than the speed of light. Simply that they observed the light exiting the chamber before it "should" have, which is to the best of my understanding, essentially true.
 

lopoetve

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Originally posted by Spewn
1.21 actually :p

Anyway, that experiment is interesting regardless. I never said particles, energy, or information traveled faster than the speed of light. Simply that they observed the light exiting the chamber before it "should" have, which is to the best of my understanding, essentially true.
Not light, a gaussian pulse. It's a little strange... it's the thing that carries the photon from the atoms in question. It somehow got there early. Not energy, just the wave. So yes, the effect of the light got there, but not exactly the light.

Kinda like the atoms were "anticipating" the arrival of the pulse. The effect came before the cause.

It is VERY interesting :) Thank you for sharing :)
 

CSx-2011

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Originally posted by Spewn
1.21 actually :p

Anyway, that experiment is interesting regardless. I never said particles, energy, or information traveled faster than the speed of light. Simply that they observed the light exiting the chamber before it "should" have, which is to the best of my understanding, essentially true.
my bad... its been awhile since I've seen those movies...

More is better right? :p
 

Spewn

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Originally posted by lopoetve
Not light, a gaussian pulse. It's a little strange... it's the thing that carries the photon from the atoms in question. It somehow got there early. Not energy, just the wave. So yes, the effect of the light got there, but not exactly the light.

Kinda like the atoms were "anticipating" the arrival of the pulse. The effect came before the cause.

It is VERY interesting :) Thank you for sharing :)
That's what I was getting at ;)
 

mwarps

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Originally posted by Spewn
I know the experiment you're talking about. They detected it exiting the tube before it should have, essentially meaning one of two things. EITHER they got light to travel faster than the speed of light, OR they got it to travel forwards through time. That's a bit more complex though ;) And in-fact, according to some(like hawking for example), they're the same thing.

BTW, 150k is only -23'C, so to whoever said silicon starts acting like an insulator at that temp probably moved the decimal place over or something, because LN2 would be WAY below that, cpu's wouldn't even function at the temperatures LN2 can drop them to if that were true. And of course, there goes the whole phase change cooling industry in relation to computers.
150K is -123C, son. :p

LN2 IIRC is -77C.

Looks like someone else dropped a decimal :)
 
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