Liquid Cooling System -- Enough to cool this machine?

[Epicenter]

I've been planning to build a new box for a long time now and now that I have enough income to do so, I'm planning to build my 'dream box'. Technically unimpressive to many I'm sure, but here are my plans. I intend to get a Mobile XP chip, high end graphics card, plenty of fast memory, a large, fast hard disk and a powerful liquid cooling system to overclock the hell out of everything (because it's just so damn fun.)

My planned parts:
Processor: Mobile Athlon XP 2400+
Motherboard: Albatron KX18D PROII nForce2 Ultra 400
Memory: 1024 MB of Kingston ValueRAM (DDR500)
Graphics Card: Albatron GeForce FX 6800 w/ 128 MB VRAM (AGP 8x Model)
Hard Disk: Samsung 160GB Parallel ATA Hard Disk w/ 2 MB Cache, 7200RPM Rotational
Speed
Power Supply: Antec True-Series True430
Case: Aspire X-Dreamer II

Cooling: Swiftech H2O-8600A w/ CPU, Chipset, VGA Waterblocks and an additional reservoir. 1/2" hosing, Arctic Silver 5 for contact on all cores.

I'd like to know if you think the cooling system I've selected is enough to pull off an overclock to, say, 2.5 GHz with decent temperatures. I realize I could go with a Koolance case and then just adapt everything to 1/2" hosing for the absolute best performance, but I really, REALLY don't want the same case 99% of PC enthusiasts are using.

Thanks!

 

[thewhiteguy]

What's wrong with running the same case as many watercoolers? Being different just for the sake of being different isn't a good idea.

That aside, the swiftech kits are pretty good. I don't know if that kit you mentioned is the double radiator but definitely get the double one or two of the singles.

 

[HiTech-Hate]

Liquid Cooling System -- Enough to cool this machine?
I've been planning to build a new box for a long time now and now that I have enough income to do so, I'm planning to build my 'dream box'. Technically unimpressive to many I'm sure, but here are my plans. I intend to get a Mobile XP chip, high end graphics card, plenty of fast memory, a large, fast hard disk and a powerful liquid cooling system to overclock the hell out of everything (because it's just so damn fun.)

My planned parts:
Processor: Mobile Athlon XP 2400+
Motherboard: Albatron KX18D PROII nForce2 Ultra 400
Memory: 1024 MB of Kingston ValueRAM (DDR500)
Graphics Card: Albatron GeForce FX 6800 w/ 128 MB VRAM (AGP 8x Model)
Hard Disk: Samsung 160GB Parallel ATA Hard Disk w/ 2 MB Cache, 7200RPM Rotational
Speed
Power Supply: Antec True-Series True430
Case: Aspire X-Dreamer II

Cooling: Swiftech H2O-8600A w/ CPU, Chipset, VGA Waterblocks and an additional reservoir. 1/2" hosing, Arctic Silver 5 for contact on all cores.

I'd like to know if you think the cooling system I've selected is enough to pull off an overclock to, say, 2.5 GHz with decent temperatures. I realize I could go with a Koolance case and then just adapt everything to 1/2" hosing for the absolute best performance, but I really, REALLY don't want the same case 99% of PC enthusiasts are using.

Thanks!

First of all, I have to say that its an INSULT to claim that 99% of PC enthusiasts use Koolance cases. Kits are for noobs, NOT for PC Enthusiasts. True enthusiasts approach watercooling for enjoyment and performance reasons, buying a prebuilt case that requires little to no work to watercool does NOT make one an enthusiast. Messing around with various components, ideas, etc. etc. and trying to get every last bit of performance out of ones system, and being genuinly proud of the work that one has put into building their rig, as well as the knowledge that they have gained is what makes someone a PC Enthusiast. I could go out and buy an expensive pimped out car but I certainly couldn't call myself a ricer ... I didn't do anything to the car myself.

Anyways, now that thats off my chest lol May I make some suggestions about your hardware, not that any of its 'bad' persay but I think you'd have a much better overclocking experience if you went for some better parts in some respects ...i'm not sure about that mobo, but I can say for sure that the top three overclocking Nforce2 mobos are the:

Abit NF7-S
DFI Lanpart Ultra II or whatever its called
and the Asus A7N8-X

Personally id recomend the Abit (the DFI can apparently get to mad FSB, but I love my abit, its a rock).

Second, you say you want 'fast' memory, yet you're opting for kingston VALUERAM, IMHO thats not advisable. With AMD systems especially tighter timings are crucial to performance (Intel is more reliant on bandwith), the value ram will not give you very good timings, and I have had nighmarish past experiences with value ram.


Third, the HD, why 2mB cache? 8mB cache drives are like either the same price or $5 more, and IMHO very much worth that $5, esp if you want a 'fast hard disk'. You might also want to look into WD raptors, they are a lil more pricey, but they are also 10000RPM SATA drives that are extremely fast (the highest you can buy atm is currently 74gB though, I don't know if this is enough for you).

Also you can get 200-250gB hds now for mad deals on outpost and others right now ...

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=799100

$99 for the 200gB

Unfortunately you just missed the 250gB sale which was $119

grabbed myself two of them, great drives, phenomanol price.

Now about the wc, swiftech makes good blocks, no doubt. If you want bleeding edge performance blocks though it seems that for the moment at least the RBX/TDX or (at least in my opinion) the White Water block.

im not sure what you mean by 'additional resevoir'. If you mean you plan on adding two resevoirs, I would not recomend it.

You didn't say anything about the rad/heatercore you wanted, but like many times before I suggest you go to autozone and buy yourself a heatercore, they are MUCH cheaper then rads, and perform just as well (rads are basically painted heatercores with a brand name slapped on them and sold and ludicrously high prices, honestly if you're willing to throw that money away, you may as well just give it to me ).

Hope some of this helped.

 

[jinu117]

First of all, I have to say that its an INSULT to claim that 99% of PC enthusiasts use Koolance cases. Kits are for noobs, NOT for PC Enthusiasts. True enthusiasts approach watercooling for enjoyment and performance reasons,

Err... sooo I am a noob now? If you are anything like me who can't keep same components for more than a month, Koolance excels far beyond custom kit just for sheer convenience of being able to disconnect, take out mobo, etc. I DO have feeling I went through way more hardwares (be it components, cooling methods, what not) and still a noob eh? For someone like me who just have to (well out of sheer enjoyment of figuring out) go through mucho hardwares, there is nothing like exos. There IS a reason why many review sites uses Exos when it comes to CPU testing, OC review, etc.

 

[DREW10]

cool down.........hes just saying most people that use kits are noobs, [H]ard people tend to make it themselves.....what you do is up to you.....but you would probably get more performance out of something you put together.......just my 0.02$

now.......you could probably go a bit higher with the CPU......mabye a 2800+ or a 64 bit.....

DREW

 

[HiTech-Hate]

Err... sooo I am a noob now? If you are anything like me who can't keep same components for more than a month, Koolance excels far beyond custom kit just for sheer convenience of being able to disconnect, take out mobo, etc. I DO have feeling I went through way more hardwares (be it components, cooling methods, what not) and still a noob eh? For someone like me who just have to (well out of sheer enjoyment of figuring out) go through mucho hardwares, there is nothing like exos. There IS a reason why many review sites uses Exos when it comes to CPU testing, OC review, etc.

Er I meant no insult. As far as I am concerned though ... yes anyone who uses a kit is a watercooling noob. I didn't say using the exos kit makes you an all around noob, just a noob when it comes to watercooling, and I stand by that claim.

Yes the EXOS has its advantages, and I don't mean to rag on it, it is a simple quick air cooling alternative ... but its use does not make one a PC Enthusiast, thats all i'm trying to get across here.

As far as im concerned though I don't know how you can claim that a custom setup makes it any more difficult to remove the mobo then the koolance kit???? When I need to take my mobo out, I take the waterblock off, move it to the side of my case (while it is still all connected) and remove the mobo tray, I have never needed to unhook any component of my watercooling loop to get at or replace a component in my computer.

 

[Epicenter]

Heh, sorry, I forgot to mention, the kit I picked would be with a CPU block, Chipset Block, VGA Block and NO reservoir, so I'm adding one. It relies on a 'fill and bleed' valve kit by default. I'd also be adding a SECOND 80mm copper radiator, also from Swiftech.

Think this is enough cooling power?

.. as for the RAM. I picked it because when I posted this list of parts on another forum I was called a 'retard' for 'buying gimmick Extreme XMS bulls**t RAM.'

On the case issue. I didn't mean to insult ANYONE. I just don't want the same case MANY, MANY people use-- the EXOS cases are based on the Chieftech/Antec case everyone has, with the grated front, the bay door, the weird fan holes with the orange clip-on things .. those. Everyone I know who is a geek has that same case, so I don't want to have the same.

 

[Royal]

Off topic for a sec sorry about this

Hitech just because soneone wants to use a preconfigured kit and not sit down and take more time to research and ask and ask and read and ask and research and read just to find the best blocs, res, tubing and rads out there does not make them a noob. It makes alot of us people with not as much time to put into and just want the best setup with out all the running around. So before you start calling every kit user a noob relax and realize that therye maybe other Fiscal or time constrains on asker side.

Nuf said and now back to your regularly scheduled forum thread.

Epicenter sounds like it should work. if not then get a proc that does the 2.5Ghz and tell everyone you are OC to that speed. naw taht should work. as for ram dude who cares what ever make you happy. Myself I tend for the cheap stuff at the local fry's its works and well if I lose 10th of a micro second on my computer reaction time who cares never gonna notice it

 

[HiTech-Hate]

Heh, sorry, I forgot to mention, the kit I picked would be with a CPU block, Chipset Block, VGA Block and NO reservoir, so I'm adding one. It relies on a 'fill and bleed' valve kit by default. I'd also be adding a SECOND 80mm copper radiator, also from Swiftech.

Think this is enough cooling power?

.. as for the RAM. I picked it because when I posted this list of parts on another forum I was called a 'retard' for 'buying gimmick Extreme XMS bulls**t RAM.'

On the case issue. I didn't mean to insult ANYONE. I just don't want the same case MANY, MANY people use-- the EXOS cases are based on the Chieftech/Antec case everyone has, with the grated front, the bay door, the weird fan holes with the orange clip-on things .. those. Everyone I know who is a geek has that same case, so I don't want to have the same.

I would not recomend you put a second rad in there unless you are also putting a second (or an 'abnormally powerful for watercooling' pump in there). THe addition of a second rad will signifigantly refuce flowrate ... which will in turn lead to poor performance in the CPU and GPU blocks (they rely on high head and flowrate, and perform poorly at lower flowrate). PS What pump are you getting? You didnt say.

I would suggest though that you get AT least a single 120mm heatercore (or rad whatever, just dont say I didnt warn you with the waste of money on a rad), the 80mm rads in my opinion are CRAP. You will not see performance any better then with air. The best would be a dual 120mm heatercore DD sells both the single and dual 120mm Heatercores ... ready to go for like $29.99 and $35.99 respectively (compare the $35.99 dual heatercore to like $80 for a stupid dual rad).

I would like to know who's telling you that XMS is gimmick bullshit ram????? These high performance rams are rated to perform often as low as 2-2-2-7 timings, your value crap is probably something like 3-4-4-8, for an intel system these timing like I said are less signifigant. For an AMD system, you would notice signifigant gains in tighting the timings, especially the CAS # (the first one). These 'gimmic bullshit rams' also use higher grade winbond chips (such as the infamous and ever loved BH-5) which can perform at higher voltages (and in BH-5's case its RATED ... up to 3.6v ) thus leading to better overclocks. These people on this forum need to be castrated, especially for suggesting in place of the 'gimmic bullshit ram' a brand of ram found at the bottom of the barrel. There is ram out there that is midgrade between the high performance Corsair, and the shit noname/kingston valueram.

And honestly, you really know many many ppl who use exos kits? Most of my friends gawk at people who use them, and I dont know in general all that many ppl who do, it must be a fad in your group of friends heh.

 

[HiTech-Hate]

Hitech just because soneone wants to use a preconfigured kit and not sit down and take more time to research and ask and ask and read and ask and research and read just to find the best blocs, res, tubing and rads out there does not make them a noob. It makes alot of us people with not as much time to put into and just want the best setup with out all the running around. So before you start calling every kit user a noob relax and realize that therye maybe other Fiscal or time constrains on asker side.

Actually, letting someone else do the work for you does in fact make you a noob. I stand steadfast behind this claim. And like I said, using an exos kit doesn't make you an all around noob, it makes you a watercooling noob. A noob is someone who doesnt

"sit down and take more time to research and ask and ask and read and ask and research and read"

as far as im concerned thats the definition of a noob.

At any rate, I dunno why im being ragged on here, i'm just trying to give the guy some advice as well as defend us TRUE PC Enthusiasts, who do this for the betterment of knowledge and understanding. If he chooses to go with valueram or whatever, so be it, my life will go on, i'm just trying to give what insight I can into what other options are out there.

 

[Royal]

hell no I totally agree with you on the ram issue Hitech the XMS is some of the best Sticks out there. I just disagree with calling all kit users noobs. I ended up using a kit because I have other resposablities that require my time and resources. SO if it makes me noob then so be it. then again I do remember about 6 or 7 years ago glueing a hollow PVC half cube to the top of a AMD K5 for a water block and using an old aqurium for res and an old car heater core from a 70 mustage(all I could get at the time) for a rad so I would like to thik I am beyond noob.

 

[Epicenter]

Actually, letting someone else do the work for you does in fact make you a noob. I stand steadfast behind this claim. And like I said, using an exos kit doesn't make you an all around noob, it makes you a watercooling noob.

Sorry, I really have to disagree here. I built a custom kit a while ago for cheap using an 80mm radiator, an aluminum waterblock, 1/2" hosing, some adapters for the 3/8" parts, and a 120v pump .. and it worked great. I'm not a 'n00b' because I wish to buy a kit-- I want the Swiftech set because buying the parts separately will cost me over $270 and this will cost me $220 at the most!

As for my pump. It's the Swiftech 12v model, which I've read has an extremely high flowrate .. better than the fastest 120/230v Eheim/Hydor device.

 

[HiTech-Hate]

I just dont understand how ppl cant 'find time' , all you need is 5 minutes here and there. I work 40 hours a week and im a full time uni student (35 hours of class a week). I also build comps for ppl on the side for some extra cash, I found time to read things. hell you're posting in this thread is proof that you have the time to read the forums a bit heh. I just think ppl are lazy, and thats what peeves me off. And im still adament, someone who doesn't research or understand what they use cannot be called an enthusiast! heh

 

[Epicenter]

You have to remember some people don't know HOW to build a liquid cooling system-- you may know how, I may know how, but everyone doesn't. They may end up buying a waterblock with 3/8" barbs and 1/2" tubing, get the wrong adapters, have an aluminum block and a copper radiator and have horrible corrosion issues, et cetera. By this token I cannot reasonably expect my computer-illiterate parents to build their own PCs just because they can 'find time' to do it. Even if they can learn to do it they may not WANT to invest the time required. So they ask me to build a box for them and I do it-- same as someone choosing to go buy an Exos or a Swiftech set.

And in my case it's not even a knowledge or time thing. I spent 2 hours customizing kits on different sites-- 6 of them-- and they all came out FAR more expensive than the swiftech, and entailed case modification to install. In addition, if I went with a custom set from Dangerden I have to buy one of their RBX/TBX waterblocks, which I find to be horrifically ugly-- compared to Swiftechs which are works of art. There are more factors than you think-- you can't just use a blanket opinion like "everyone who buys an Exos is a n00b and can't handle the real thing".

 

[HiTech-Hate]

epicenter .. exactly. People take the term noob to be so derogatory ... its not. It means you're inexperienced ... reasons aside. Hell I was a wc noob once, and so were you, I dunno why ppl take it as such as insult,it is a word used to describe someone that is new to a topic, for example I am a car noob cuz I really know NOTHING about cars lol.

and I wasnt knocking your selection. Just offering alternatives and my advice, there is nothing wrong with the swiftech stuff. And PS if you dont like the RBX look then take a look at the White Water block. Its actually the best block out there next to the Cascade atm, I dunno why more people don't know about it.. *shrug*

 

[TheRapture]

Would I be considered an "enthusiast" since I went to a local radiator shop, had them custom make an all copper radiator unit that measures 4"x4" square, 2" thick, with 1/2" fittings? With (2) 92mm Panaflo fans on it in push/pull config, it has been on a P4 2.4c @3.0ghz, an XP Mobile @2.4ghz, and now I am using it on my A64 3000+ @2.45ghz....

...While it seems on the small side, it has worked fantastic, fits damn near anywhere, is almost silent, cools about 10c better than moderate/high air cooling, and only cost me $50 which is not bad considering some of the ridiculous prices I have seen for some 80mm units...

 

[Epicenter]

What I'm going for is the AXP 2400+ Mobile running as fast as I can get it-- ideally 2.5 GHz+ .. with temps under 115F if at all possible. I'd use a peltier but they're the ultimate can of worms. New power supply needed, neoprene padding, dielectric grease, 300W of heat to sink in the water-- ubermess.

 

[astolpho]

Not everyone has the workshop or space to go into heavy modding. Still they can research and find the things they like. I like the premodded heatercores from DTEK, I don't have the tools or know how to mod it myself and for an extra $10 over Autozone they do it for me. I've researched almost every Waterblock set out there and I've decided I like the TT blocks from Polarflo, I don't have access to a machine shop or the machining experience to make my own, but that doesn't mean I'm less of an enthusiast. I like the 12v pumps from either swiftech or C-systems they are quiet small, can be mounted internally and turn on with the Computer power supply, and I like the double bay mount reservoirs again easily installed inside the case. I have a small space for my computer and I don't want things hanging out all over the place. Aside from a small drill, I have no tools to work on a case with so I want components I can mount with minimal modding. Does that make me less of an enthusiast? No, I'm just aware of my limitations and work within them.

 

[jinu117]

Well arguments aside, here is what I've gone through just on H2O setups.
Maze3, Maze4, MCW-5000p, MCW-5000PT(peltier one), MCW-50, MCW-50T(peltier one), Maze3(?) GPU block, few chipset blocks, Eheim 1250, 1048, Hydor L30, various 1/2" ID, 3/8" ID, BIX, Chevette Heatercore, BI Pro2, Bunch of different PSUs to power the TEC.

Unless it is peltiered, the temp difference between water cooling sets aren't as great as some of you might think. I am talking tops 4-7c load temp difference between exos vs something like white water, 1250 (or better pump), 1/2" ID, Heater core or BI Pro2, Maze 4 GPU chip. (custom setup will come out more expensive on this end btw) What I listed so far is the top notch custom set without going overboard on more exotic solutions (cascade, bigger radiator which I've been eyeing on for months now, iwaki pumps, etc) The difference might increase as the CPU gets hotter (if it does, at which point, computer becomes major household appliacne on power consumption).

I don't know about some of you but when I had custom setup with 1/2" id, it was chore to take out CPU, replace it, GPU, replace it, or even worse MOBO. Something that took me 20 mins to do would be 1 hour job on custom H2O setup I had before. (I wish we had old sticky where I did put old pics in) Now it is maybe 30 min jobs on exos instead of 1 hour job. It also gives me incentive to be able to tinker with things such as volt modding which I dreaded when I had custom setup. (and following leak check whenever I rearranged components).

I guess [H]ardcore [H] wouldn't mind reassembling custom kit everytime he/she plays with something new in their rig... But for many of us who are not necessarily noob, but would like the flexibility and speed, Exos is hard to disregard.

Yes, I've been thinking about potentially plunging back into custom kooling but can't seem to find reasonable parts that are ready on market yet... (CSP-750x2, bit cheaper price on GPU block, etc) Maybe I will just give up on having comfortable room temp and get phase cooling... -_- (which is the exact reason I got out of peltier in first place)

 

[thewhiteguy]

I work 40 hours a week and im a full time uni student (35 hours of class a week).

If you're going to BS, at least be realistic about it. 35 concurrent units? Funny one there ...

 

[TheRapture]

If you're going to BS, at least be realistic about it. 35 concurrent units? Funny one there ...

He meant per MONTH....

 

[cosmos]

If you're going to BS, at least be realistic about it. 35 concurrent units? Funny one there ...

He said 35 hours of class a week... not 35 units... Let's review some basic math.

35 / 5 = 7

7 hours a day for class.

 

[thewhiteguy]

He said 35 hours of class a week... not 35 units... Let's review some basic math.

35 / 5 = 7

7 hours a day for class.

1 unit is one hour of class per week at all the colleges around here. You misunderstand the definition of a unit.

 

[cosmos]

1 unit is one hour of class per week at all the colleges around here. You misunderstand the definition of a unit.

haha. No, I don't misunderstand the definition of unit. Many technical classes are way more than a 1:1 ratio and even 2:1 ratio. "All the colleges around here" is a general statement and a few of my freshman classes were a higher than a 1 hour of class to 1 unit ratio.

No need to flame me because there can be a difference between units and hours of class a week.

 

[mustang_steve]

This kind of rnating makes my head hurt.

Look, if all you want is something that is quieter than air, and a little bit more cooling, then go ahead and get the Koolance.

...HOWEVER....if you want something that will more than likely last well into a decade or more, perform at near silent noise levels, and whoop ass compared to aircooling or Koolance, roll your own.

There is a difference between noobs and newbs. newb is the correct shortening of newbie.....noob is usually considered deraogatory, as in a someone who refuses to change their ways of stupidity and cluelessness. Oh well...

Really what kit you use doesnt make you better than someone else....some folks really dont have the time to do the work. Maybe they only have one computer, and they need it to be running. Doing peicemeal work on it won't accomplish anyhting in that case since you have to have it running again, therefore most of your time is wasted in assembling/dissasembling it over and over again. For some folks it really is good enough.

Plus what does constitute an entusiast? it seems every hobby has this problem....in cycling roadbike snobs will talk shit to anyone running triple chainrings....in W/C w talk shit about anyone using pre-built w/c rigs....in cars the exotic owners often turn their noses up at the "showroom tuners" like the saleen, firehawk, and Ruf. Really it doesn't matter....if you think your a better person due to your decision over something that has no bearing outside of your own system, maybe it's better to not start up about it. Now if that person was trying to use gasoline in his loop....then that is a whole different matter since htat is life threatening. Why not just tell him there are better options for the money, and not go into this religious crusade over BYO and kits?

Really guys....lets not start the snobbery again....lets reserve that for pastimes that have already had decade of history in it.

 

[jinu117]

This kind of rnating makes my head hurt.

Really guys....lets not start the snobbery again....lets reserve that for pastimes that have already had decade of history in it.

Artfully put. Thumbs up