Linux needs a fool-proof distro

[ddogunl]

Why? Because I can't figure it out? No...it's for the good of the thousands upon thousands of suffering individuals with a Dell PC and are stuck with Windows XP and AOL optimized 9.0 with lightspeed technology (although I suppose it cant really help out the latter) its for people who have veins popping out of their neck over being on the phone for an hour to get an override code to activate windows. Its for people who have thrown their wireless mouse across the room because a windows firewall alert pops up everytime you click practically anything at all. Its to give Bill Gates the finger in creating an OS thats every bit as safe and easy an OS to have as Windows XP, without all the BS.
What am I talking about here? I'm talking about no compiling, no complicated install processes, even if it involves integrating the great Satan...the setup wizard. I'm talking about Computer illiterate families and grandmas using OpenOffice. I'm talking a easy-to-use Linux distro.
Anyone on my side here?

 

[Manzabar]

To quote Albert Einstein: "There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning."

You can make Linux better/faster/easier and even approach something that proof against today's fools, unfortuantely it won't be worth the disc it's burned onto against tomorrow's fool.

 

[[H]EMI_426]

I disagree. I'm perfectly happy with *nix being a geek's toy. If people really are motivated to change, they'll learn what's required to make things work. At least, that's how it'd be in a perfect world.

 

[abudhu]

I'm talking about no compiling, no complicated install processes,

What the?

*Inserts Linux SuSe 9.2 CD* *Turns on computer* *Watches TV*
What the hell can be more complicated than that?

Also,
*Inserts Windows XP *Turns on computer* *Watches TV*
What the hell can be more complicated than that?

I'm confused. I guess for some Linux Distro's it can be a pain in the ass?


Also, there is a Fool-Proof Distro, its called APPLE. Seeing as how Apple is a UNIX based OS Thanks Apple for doing so much to get the UNIX system into the Mainstream.
Granted, OS X doesn't work on PC's, but thats another story.

Anywho, If anything I'd just wish Linux became a larger player in the OS world (advertising wise). If people knew about it, and companies actually wrote programs for the thing Linux would be unstoppable. Except, by then it WOULD be mainstream and like all mainstream things people love to make viruses and such. Its best that linux remains the small loving OS that gets it props from happy users.

 

[doh]

Linux needs fewer fools.

I dread the day #gentoo is swarmed by hundreds of newbies who are too lazy to research their own answers...

Oh wait. It already is.

Frankly the learning curve involved with Linux (and other non-Redmond operating systems) is a good thing.

 

[ddogunl]

well look, I said A distro, not every linux distro...I have SuSE and I like it, I think its a step in that direction I was referring to, but its not for everyone. Thats true for just about every distro for Linux: some like it, others preferr another distro. The problem is is that there is no OS that caters to the somewhat computer challenged, if you catch my meaning.
Let me be clear, this isn't by any means a Linux hate thread. If anything its XP SP2 that pissed me off. Anyways, I like Linux....but most people around me would be confused by it...as another member said in this forum, Linux gives you just enough rope to hang yourself, and I am of the opinion that a certain distro wouldn't have to be that way

P.S. OS X? ya let me just throw down $XXXX for a new computer because windows is frustrating at times

Anywho, If anything I'd just wish Linux became a larger player in the OS world (advertising wise). If people knew about it, and companies actually wrote programs for the thing Linux would be unstoppable. Except, by then it WOULD be mainstream and like all mainstream things people love to make viruses and such.

If such a dist. of Linux would be made, Linux would be a larger player in the OS world. I agree viruses could become a problem, but it isn't as if hackers dont know about Linux already

 

[abudhu]

Ah, well, as it stands 1 of those companies (Distros) would just have to make that step. Its all on the companies, or it can be on Us. We users of linux can unite and try to make on of our own, but I'm pretty sure 65% of us are pretty lazy. I think Novell being such a large company as it is has the potential to push SuSE/Linux into the market but it just hasn't. I know it has its server side and such, but mainstream for the average user..no.

However, if such a Distro did exist, you know what they would do? Just what I said earlier, instead of giving it away to the masses, they'd quickly become greedy, market it for 100 dollars and screw us over. After which, Microsoft would just buy them out and only a few would see the light of that Distro. But like I said earlier it'll just take one of those distros with enough money behind it to push for the unification of Linux and the marketing of it. Something that I don't think is happening soon.

Also, you have to think, if that one-fool-proof-distro did come out, then it would just be another OS. People, I believe, sway to linux to learn about an OS, and to have the power over what is going on. If that fool-proof one existed I am sure it would be stripped of all such powers. Unless they were smart enough to have a HOME/ADVANCE User verision of the software.

Oh, while I lost my train of thought: Lindows/Linspire is a Linux OS that looks like Windows and is pretty damn simplistic

I dread the day #gentoo is swarmed by hundreds of newbies who are too lazy to research their own answers...
Oh wait. It already is.

Also its people like ^^ That, that make going to Linux suck. Sorry for trying a new OS, and trying to learn at it. Sorry for being New. Sorry for stepping out of the box. Guess I'll go back to Windows because people are unwilling to help. Besides people post those questions, probably on forums catering to Linux users because they know they will find their answer quicker, and with someone that had already been through their problem, than searching through Google with tutorials that aren't helpful
^^ Not an attack at you "Doh" I'm just using that line and you as an example of the sterotypical elites Linux Community.

 

[Carlosinfl]

After reading the first 3 lines of your post, I suggest you stick with Windows.

 

[Gertrude]

Linux needs fewer fools.
I dread the day #gentoo is swarmed by hundreds of newbies who are too lazy to research their own answers...

Oh wait. It already is.

I would say most of the credit for that is due to people constantly recommending to use that distro regardless of the persons experience with Linux or computers in general.

 

[Carlosinfl]

I would say most of the credit for that is due to people constantly recommending to use that distro regardless of the persons experience with Linux or computers in general.

I could not agree more.

 

[disturbed]

I would say most of the credit for that is due to people constantly recommending to use that distro regardless of the persons experience with Linux or computers in general.

I tend to agree with you, and I am a gentoo user, but if the majority of forum users knew how to click the "search" button instead of the "new thread" button, then it would go a lot smoother.

Plus, on gentoo anyway, if you RTFM (which is a reply often given), it actually solves over 80% of your problems. The manuals they have available are very well written, and are very straight forward.

 

[doh]

Sorry for trying a new OS, and trying to learn at it. Sorry for being New. Sorry for stepping out of the box. Guess I'll go back to Windows because people are unwilling to help.

"abudhu",

I have no problem with people who want to learn. The people I have a problem with is those who are too lazy to read existing and easily available documentation. I have a problem with people who are too lazy to even try Google and the Linux Documentation Project or even man pages, or even a dead tree book.

I'm more than willing to help if you have a question that isn't covered by the documentation or is just really obscure.

Incidentally, it is not a requirement to put usernames in quotations - it just makes you look really silly.

 

[doh]

I would say most of the credit for that is due to people constantly recommending to use that distro regardless of the persons experience with Linux or computers in general.

Gentoo is an excellent learning tool. Distros that actively hold your hand and shield the real work behind some candy GUI is not helping anyone learn. Unfortunately in Windows land there is no easy way to bypass the GUI. There are no plain text config files because all of the data is stored in (binary format) the registry.

 

[[H]EMI_426]

I have no problem with people who want to learn. The people I have a problem with is those who are too lazy to read existing and easily available documentation. I have a problem with people who are too lazy to even try Google and the Linux Documentation Project or even man pages, or even a dead tree book.

I'm more than willing to help if you have a question that isn't covered by the documentation or is just really obscure.

Hear, hear!

doh is right on the money. If people are willing to work and can show that they've put forth at least some token effort towards solving their own problems before just asking for help they'll get much better responses from more experienced *nix users.

People did survive using Linux before there were documentation projects, big user forums, etc. It can be done. Really. My first Linux experience was without an internet connection at all...For two years. I had man pages and HOWTOs, and since I was running SuSE a large portion of those were in German! Ya know what? I learned a lot doing things that way. Most importantly, I learned how to help myself solve the problems I ran in to. I really have a hard time finding sympathy for people too lazy to try to solve their own problems first.

 

[abudhu]

Well, I put your name in qoutes, because when I was writing it I thought people were just going to thing I said Doh!

Anywho

Yes, I understand your point, and I know that some people are lazy to read documentation and search through google, but the biggest thing is that for Most NEW people those documentation believe the user to already know so much about the system that they confuse the hell out of you. Take for instance my first experience building GAIM. What did the install Instructions say? Make -- Make Install -- ./configure

What did it say on the internet on how to compile/build things. That exact thing. Everytime I typed it I got dependency errors and didn't know what the hell it was talking about as nothing made mention of it. However, I was smart enough to figure it out, but for others thats where forums are a wonderful thing. And just because they post a question doesn't mean they haven't researched the topic. Now in the case of some this is true, but I don't think its that great a majority. And besides that, you know how much quicker it would be just to answer their question and be done with it, instead of flaming the shit out of them for asking the question in the first place?

Hehe

---

Back on subject:
I've got nothing right now

 

[[H]EMI_426]

What did it say on the internet on how to compile/build things. That exact thing. Everytime I typed it I got dependency errors and didn't know what the hell it was talking about as nothing made mention of it. However, I was smart enough to figure it out, but for others thats where forums are a wonderful thing. And just because they post a question doesn't mean they haven't researched the topic. Now in the case of some this is true, but I don't think its that great a majority. And besides that, you know how much quicker it would be just to answer their question and be done with it, instead of flaming the shit out of them for asking the question in the first place?

Maybe they should state what they've tried, where they've looked, etc.

It may be "easier" to just toss someone a bone, but that really doesn't help them any. You know, "give a man a fish and he'll be full for a day, but teach a man to fish and he'll have food for a lifetime," type stuff. If you teach people how to find their own help you're doing them much more good than just giving them the answer.

Nowadays I just don't bother responding to the questions I know can be solved with very little searching, etc. If someone else feels like responding, great...It's just easier for me to not respond at all.

 

[doh-nut]

to topic poster: you know theres a simple check box that turns off the pop up for when windows wants to open a port in firewall options.

after reading some replies, my opinion is this, I don't see any inherent good in a command prompt. Until you run your applications by typing 1s and 0s, you aren't really 'leet', so why put yourself above those who use a GUI? I don't see the good in making things difficult for yourself for the sake of it. I see the benefit of learning linux yourself, but I also see the downside to that for people with not a lot of time. I don't see the difference between changing my config on a command prompt or changing my config in the registry or in the control panel, as long as both get the job done.

after all the elitist bullshit between both windows users and linux users, it logically only comes down to one thing.

how can I make my computer do Task A with the least amount of money and time?

some of you linux users just don't seem to understand that this is the most important thing. and this is what im interpreting from what the topic poster is saying. i think linux is great. im a newbie, but ive been working on a slim debian server that hosts services on my LAN. i didn't choose it because I wanted to feel cool by installing linux, I didn't volunteer to only have a command prompt because I thought i was leet. I just wanted a slim, free OS that could host my services without lagging on a slow machine i had, and this was just the right choice. (freeBSD has been great too).

i don't see any reason not to agree with the topic poster. it would be great if linux became more popular with less-computer-literate-than-average-linux-users people. maybe someday we'd even see a version of linux competing with windows as a gaming platform.

 

[abudhu]

Maybe they should state what they've tried, where they've looked, etc.

It may be "easier" to just toss someone a bone, but that really doesn't help them any. You know, "give a man a fish and he'll be full for a day, but teach a man to fish and he'll have food for a lifetime," type stuff. If you teach people how to find their own help you're doing them much more good than just giving them the answer.

Nowadays I just don't bother responding to the questions I know can be solved with very little searching, etc. If someone else feels like responding, great...It's just easier for me to not respond at all.

I tend to agree with you. Better they learn themselves, then be spoon fed, but all the same sometimes they just need a nudge in the right direction.

 

[DR_K13]

Linux needs fewer fools.

I dread the day #gentoo is swarmed by hundreds of newbies who are too lazy to research their own answers...

Oh wait. It already is.

Frankly the learning curve involved with Linux (and other non-Redmond operating systems) is a good thing.

I think he is talking about me.

 

[doh]

after reading some replies, my opinion is this, I don't see any inherent good in a command prompt. Until you run your applications by typing 1s and 0s, you aren't really 'leet', so why put yourself above those who use a GUI?

There isn't any "eliteness" involved. The command line interface is in many instances far quicker and more straightforward than a GUI.

I think he is talking about me.

I'm a girl.

 

[ThomasE66]

"abudhu",

I have no problem with people who want to learn. The people I have a problem with is those who are too lazy to read existing and easily available documentation. I have a problem with people who are too lazy to even try Google and the Linux Documentation Project or even man pages, or even a dead tree book.

I'm more than willing to help if you have a question that isn't covered by the documentation or is just really obscure.

Incidentally, it is not a requirement to put usernames in quotations - it just makes you look really silly.

Yes and no. I don't mind pointing someone to the LDP or other good links. It's if they then persist to keep asking questions that are easily covered by said documentation that I tend to agree with you. Part of the problem is people a) want instant gratification and b) many feel daunted by even the thought of reading documentation.

I would submit that if you want to play you have to pay. If people don't want to read up and study, *then* ask followup questions if they need clarification, then they should stick with either the easier to install distros or with another choice altogether (Mac OS X, Windows XP, etc.).

 

[doh-nut]

There isn't any "eliteness" involved. The command line interface is in many instances far quicker and more straightforward than a GUI.

sadly there is for many, its part of what makes people feel so superior to windows users. :/

 

[Qualm]

However, if such a Distro did exist, you know what they would do? Just what I said earlier, instead of giving it away to the masses, they'd quickly become greedy, market it for 100 dollars and screw us over.

Too true. Exactly what yellowTAB is doing with Zeta (BeOS successor), which they want to sell for 99 Euros.

 

[ThomasE66]

Yeah, it's just so evil and greedy to actually put a lot of work into something (ever try to build your own distro, let alone a foolproof/idiotproof one?) and then do something like expect to make money off of it!!!

Frankly, even $100 for said mythical distro (that doesn't exist yet) would be a great deal. Have you looked at Windows XP prices?

 

[Qualm]

Greedy, yes. Evil, no. It's just a fact that many of these companies want to get paid for their time. I don't have a problem with that. I was just agreeing with abudhu's cogent observation that anyone ambitious enough to put together a great Linux distro is likely to want to get paid for it. It's "greedy" in the sense that these Linux repackagers are taking something 95% done by other people (linux and all the apps) and adding 5% "repackaging" labor and wanting to charge something approximating a full OS price.

Something Doh said I really don't agree with:

There isn't any "eliteness" involved. The command line interface is in many instances far quicker and more straightforward than a GUI.

I disagree. I think the command line is inherently "elite" because the sheer mental effort required to keep command-line OS details in active memory rules out "dabblers", even professional IT geeks like myself who happen to spend 90% of their computing time in the corporate Windows world.

 

[ThomasE66]

I disagree. I think the command line is inherently "elite" because the sheer mental effort required to keep command-line OS details in active memory rules out "dabblers", even professional IT geeks like myself who happen to spend 90% of their computing time in the corporate Windows world.

That's what sticky notes are for though!