Linux, iTunes Coming to Microsoft's App Store

Megalith

Megalith

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Geez, Microsoft had a lot more surprises up its sleeve than I could have imagined. As some of you were quick to point out, the much-ridiculed Windows Store is getting a significant shot in the arm with three different versions of the free Linux operating system (Ubuntu, Suse, and Fedora). Even Apple is jumping in with an iTunes app by the end of this year. Now Microsoft just needs to figure out who at Google to hold hostage so they get UWP Gmail, YouTube, Maps, etc. Is this the genuine turning point?

It sounds weird, but it makes perfect sense. In early 2016, Microsoft announced the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL), a way for developers to use full versions of Linux within Windows 10 itself. Putting aside the historical ramifications here — Microsoft spent the 90s unsuccessfully trying to stamp out Linux, a free alternative to Windows — it was a move intended to bait programmers into using Windows 10. Here's the thinking: Developers like using Linux software, Windows 10 supports Linux software and Windows software, so maybe consider doing all your development with Windows 10. It was well-received by developers, and has apparently emboldened Microsoft to go further.
 
PeaKr said:
Yeah that's what i want, my linux downloaded from the windows store.
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I am using the built-in Ubuntu bash and it works pretty great. You add an X-Win package and you can run Linux GUI programs right over the top of Windows. Not something I ever thought I would be able to do without a VM, and as an IT guy it is a good feature.
 
Shmee said:
I am using the built-in Ubuntu bash and it works pretty great. You add an X-Win package and you can run Linux GUI programs right over the top of Windows. Not something I ever thought I would be able to do without a VM, and as an IT guy it is a good feature.
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Are there some instructions somewhere on how to do that? Thanks.
 
Megalith said:
Geez, Microsoft had a lot more surprises up its sleeve than I could have imagined. As some of you were quick to point out, the much-ridiculed Windows Store is getting a significant shot in the arm with three different versions of the free Linux operating system (Ubuntu, Suse, and Fedora). Even Apple is jumping in with an iTunes app by the end of this year. Now Microsoft just needs to figure out who at Google to hold hostage so they get UWP Gmail, YouTube, Maps, etc. Is this the genuine turning point?
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There are a number of quality YouTube apps in the Store already, HyperTube, myTube and AwesomeTube or ones I've used. Google will be a tough one but as more stuff comes to the store and as Windows 10's install base gets larger, and it will even if it's not as fast as could or should be, I think they'll probably at least get an official YouTube player, maps and mail clients.
 
zamardii12 said:
That's the biggest hurdle they have other than the quality of apps.
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The numbers will come from the enterprise, this isn't like Windows 8.x in that regard, enterprises are going to move to 10 in numbers. That's already in motion in a lot of places.

As for app quality, there are good apps there, a lot of junk, that's not really a lot different from iOS and Android but clearly with the much larger app selection are more quality apps. But unless you're just politically opposed to the Windows Store, there's no reason not to use things like Netflix or Hulu or the YouTube apps, etc.
 
Seems to me ms is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks at this point. Can't wait for the next entertaining episode.
 
PeaKr said:
Seems to me ms is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks at this point. Can't wait for the next entertaining episode.
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The Linux subsystem stuff has been in the works for over a year while and getting more apps in the Store is obviously a big to do item. And they have been working on AR/VR stuff for years.
 
Nice to see this happening, even though I do not use it myself. (ITunes, that is.) It does make sense though and I can understand better that there must be a collaboration going on between MS and Apple, which is most likely why we saw just iPhones on stage and nothing else.
 
Staples said:
What does this say about MS and their development of Windows.
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It's means they're excessively desperate to get as much 'content,' even if its duplicated content, in their storefront which they literally force in front of everyone. Totally reminds me of Paul Riser in Aliens, "it's really sad."

Well, if it works for you, have at the shovelware. I'll have noone of it.
 
Staples said:
What does this say about MS and their development of Windows.
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That they provide another way to get programs and apps installed on your computer, nothing more and nothing less. The person above who claims it is desperate and shovelware means he must think the same about Apple and Google play stores, since everything is a duplicate of what you can already do somewhere else, short of maybe games. :)
 
heatlesssun said:
What does it say about the development of Linux when Wine is used as a solution?
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To most, that is just a way to get programs some folks want to use over to it. To the person you quoted, the logic would mean that they must be desperate. (They are not but, I know what you are getting at.)
 
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So it'll take them 6+ more months to UWP wrapper the same old bloated pig of a Win32 program you can just download at iTunes.com.

Incredible progress.
 
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As an native Linux user and MS system administrator, I still don't see the need for this. It's not like I can run HTTPD with selinux inside Windows and get somehow better performance. I can run emacs just fine using the Windows version but the other little Linux things are missing like highlight to copy, emacs bindings for all apps etc. It's not the same and why bother when you can use a VM? Or a real install. Diversity is the big buzzword but maybe we want to me left alone and use our software in our own little world.
 
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I'd wait to see how restrictive the versions of Linux are, if/when they actually show up.

Microsoft won't let you change your search engine on their "Free" Windows, but they will let your Run Linux where you can just run any software/browser/search engine?

Somehow, I don't think that will work out.
 
Snowdog said:
I'd wait to see how restrictive the versions of Linux are, if/when they actually show up.

Microsoft won't let you change your search engine on their "Free" Windows, but they will let your Run Linux where you can just run any software/browser/search engine?

Somehow, I don't think that will work out.
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This isn't new, Ubuntu was already available just not through the store.
 
Shotglass01 said:
It's means they're excessively desperate to get as much 'content,' even if its duplicated content, in their storefront which they literally force in front of everyone. Totally reminds me of Paul Riser in Aliens, "it's really sad."

Well, if it works for you, have at the shovelware. I'll have noone of it.
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I'm not entirely sure why the "force it on everyone" thing always comes up. I have been running Windows 10 for close to a year and I have yet to see the store open. I imagine if I scrolled down my apps list it would be there, but unless I open it manually, I'll never see it.
 
heatlesssun said:
This isn't new, Ubuntu was already available just not through the store.
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The Windows Store and Windows S compatibility is the whole point though.

So it remains interesting to see how this inter-works with Windows S restrictions.

I really don't expect them to allow this to work fully with Windows S, one way or another.

Even if they start out allowing it, I figure they will kill it when they realize it subverts just about any of their rules for the store.

Just because something gets into the store, doesn't mean it guaranteed a place forever. Microsoft recently removed and banned game emulators.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...bans-and-removes-emulators-from-windows-store
 
Snowdog said:
The Windows Store and Windows S compatibility is the whole point though.

So it remains interesting to see how this inter-works with Windows S restrictions.

I really don't expect them to allow this to work fully with Windows S, one way or another.

Even if they start out allowing it, I figure they will kill it when they realize it subverts just about any of their rules for the store.

Just because something gets into the store, doesn't mean it guaranteed a place forever. Microsoft recently removed and banned game emulators.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...bans-and-removes-emulators-from-windows-store
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So they just arbitrarily banned game emulators just because, is that it? Damn man, people get upset that MS is a supposed monopoly and then get upset when they enforce the rules they are required to do, such as banning emulators. It was not some arbitrary thing that was done. But hey, it is MS so it must be so.
 
Snowdog said:
The Windows Store and Windows S compatibility is the whole point though.

So it remains interesting to see how this inter-works with Windows S restrictions.

I really don't expect them to allow this to work fully with Windows S, one way or another.

Even if they start out allowing it, I figure they will kill it when they realize it subverts just about any of their rules for the store.

Just because something gets into the store, doesn't mean it guaranteed a place forever. Microsoft recently removed and banned game emulators.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...bans-and-removes-emulators-from-windows-store
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You have a good point and I agree. I doubt this would be allowed to Windows S devices and for numerous reasons. As I've said, I don't think that Windows 10 S locked down devices is the endgame here. There were demos of Windows 10 ARM devices just downloading Windows software from internet and running them today. This is not a zero sum game.
 
ManofGod said:
So they just arbitrarily banned game emulators just because, is that it? Damn man, people get upset that MS is a supposed monopoly and then get upset when they enforce the rules they are required to do, such as banning emulators. It was not some arbitrary thing that was done. But hey, it is MS so it must be so.
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Let's see. STOP DOING THAT MICROSOFT probably came from a nice lawyer somewhere? I hate it but I guarantee you that won't be the last thing, like all of this YouTube ad free apps once Google takes notice of them and Microsoft wants to play ball with Google for some of apps in the Windows Store.
 
UWP Google apps sounds dangerous for Chromebooks and Android tablets with Windows 10 S.
 
heatlesssun said:
Let's see. STOP DOING THAT MICROSOFT probably came from a nice lawyer somewhere? I hate it but I guarantee you that won't be the last thing, like all of this YouTube ad free apps once Google takes notice of them and Microsoft wants to play ball with Google for some of apps in the Windows Store.
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Exactly. My point was Microsoft's App store will end up like other App Stores with similar restrictions, which is why I can't see a fully functional Linux Distro system(allowing any Linux application), working on the App Store locked Windows S.

As I stated before, I would have preferred all along that Microsoft had done a separate Triple M (Managed/Mobile/Modern) OS to handle all of this stuff. I am not against it, I understand the value. I am just against it being wedged forcefully into traditional Windows. Trying to do it all in one OS is very messy. Trying to serve traditional open desktop users and Triple M users is at odds.

A fully functional Linux Distro system, might be a perfectly fine application for a more open store for a non locked down traditional Windows.
But it doesn't make sense for a locked down Windows S.

So why do they share the same store when they have conflicting models? Because they are considered the same OS, and we get mess.
 
Snowdog said:
As I stated before, I would have preferred all along that Microsoft had done a separate Triple M (Managed/Mobile/Modern) OS to handle all of this stuff. I am not against it, I understand the value. I am just against it being wedged forcefully into traditional Windows.
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But here's the thing. All that one invests in that Triple MMM system works on traditional Windows. Its a though people are arguing that Microsoft is creating a walled garden but then arguing against people who were using that walled garden moving away from it while keeping all that want from that walled garden while also using the most open and diverse software ecosystem ever created. I see it as have you cake and eat it too. I just don't see it as Microsoft trying to limit options when they seem to be providing more than any of the major tech companies currently.

Not that they are doing out of the goodness of their hearts but I simply don't see Microsoft working to support iOS and Android but dropping Win32 at this time. Or ever in my lifetime. There's no reason too.
 
heatlesssun said:
But here's the thing. All that one invests in that Triple MMM system works on traditional Windows.
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People with a different point of view would say half that work is making traditional Windows Worse (removing start buttons/menus, having a tile based start page), and most of the other half is irrelevant to traditional Windows ( The whole Touch UI thing).


Its a though people are arguing that Microsoft is creating a walled garden but then arguing against people who were using that walled garden moving away from it while keeping all that want from that walled garden while also using the most open and diverse software ecosystem ever created.
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That is hard to parse. I will just say, look at the angst and the anger in the Windows community about Windows S and what it signals to many about the walled garden. Again if this was a separate Windows Mobile, no one using traditional Windows would care about a locked down version of Windows Mobile. Hell we would expect it, even welcome it.

But instead we have anger/strife/resistance.

Trying to have all these elements in one OS is a big angry mess.
 
Snowdog said:
People with a different point of view would say half that work is making traditional Windows Worse (removing start buttons/menus, having a tile based start page), and most of the other half is irrelevant to traditional Windows ( The whole Touch UI thing).
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I've long been a supporter of ink and touch on Windows because it's natural. Even with Windows 7 which simply didn't do it well enough and I said that at the time. I believe and long have in a hybrid OS UI. And I think that argument is essentially over. Windows can never again be only a keyboard and mouse driven OS. But I didn't think Windows 8 got there particularly because of the full screen elements which I thought didn't translate well to the desktop. I didn't think the Start Button was a big deal and I was wrong there. But yes, at today's level of technology there's no reason why an OS can't work across different modes of input.


Snowdog said:
That is hard to parse. I will just say, look at the angst and the anger in the Windows community about Windows S and what it signals to many about the walled garden. Again if this was a separate Windows Mobile, no one using traditional Windows would care about a locked down version of Windows Mobile. Hell we would expect it, even welcome it.
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But why does it have to be separate? To me a walled garden is, buy apps for a tablet device and no access to them on desktop.

Snowdog said:
But instead we have anger/strife/resistance.
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So people are made that an app that bought for one device works across multiple devices?

Snowdog said:
Trying to have all these elements in one OS is a big angry mess.
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I agree. I just don't think there's any reason why things have to siloed because that's how it's always been done before. Way can't at least some apps bought for a phone be used on a laptop of desktop for no additional charge?
 
The choice as to whether Windows 10 should be a desktop OS, a touch OS or a mishmash of both should be totally up to the user as it's the users PC. But it's not, 'mishmash of both' is the only option with the exception of 'tablet interface' which has Windows 10 users scrambling for the PC tech as they think they've stuffed their OS when they inadvertently enable it and it's unnecessary when there's a keyboard and mouse available, peripherals that will always be superior to a touch interface.

Windows is not an open ecosystem and it's diversity is based around it's usage statistics and those usage statistics are solely due to the fact it's forced onto the consumer. Force any OS onto the consumer and diversity isn't difficult to achieve, doesn't change the fact that you have to force your product onto the consumer.
 
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ManofGod said:
That they provide another way to get programs and apps installed on your computer, nothing more and nothing less. The person above who claims it is desperate and shovelware means he must think the same about Apple and Google play stores, since everything is a duplicate of what you can already do somewhere else, short of maybe games. :)
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the-interview-19.jpg
 
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