Something else must have been wrong, rather than just missing. The drivers for the Intel 210 Wifi cards are older than stone tools. You can't even download a Mint old enough to not contain them in the standard kernel.
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Linux for NewB question
- Thread starter narsbars
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Something else must have been wrong, rather than just missing. The drivers for the Intel 210 Wifi cards are older than stone tools. You can't even download a Mint old enough to not contain them in the standard kernel.
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Oddly enough, even though I have never installed Linux on my other PCs in ages, besides this laptop, all I can find for my wireless adapter is:
Network controller: Intel Corporation Raptor Lake PCH CNVi WiFi
Odd. Unless I am going crazy, this says ax210 on Mint, but I am currently using Arch. I still would expect the names to match.
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I'm not sure that's the same as an AX210.
Different issues but the users lists a bunch of interesting info about it.
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=289920
https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/current's-kernel-firmware-and-intel-corporation-raptor-lake-pch-cnvi-wifi-rev-01-a-4175738244/
https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/1bwbpuc/please_someone_help_me_please_my_internet_isnt/
It would appear it may have been a firmware issue with the usual firmware package and/or old LTS kernels in most distros.
That is a reasonable explanation.
However, it would be permissible to backport single pieces of firmware under Debian's release rules and Ubuntu LTS rules, as I understand them. Maybe the problem wasn't common enough to bother.
Because its a distro based on a workstation distro.
That is the bottom line with Mint.
My main issue with Mint. You want to try and bring over windows type users ok. Who are the most likely to come first? Power users right....
So lets base our distro on 9 month out of date bits and pieces from Ubuntu Long Term Service. A distro designed to sell Linux to corpo types, who only want to pay their IT people to do major updates once a quarter.
Sorry Mazz.
LTS is a bit misunderstood by most people
Long Term Service. Is not actually any more stable then normal rolling Linux. There I said it.
It is just what it sounds like its a long term service version that is mostly feature locked early. Companies like Canonical, Red Hat, Suse and the like commit to service these versions of the OS for long periods. So say you are a corporation that needs 100 Linux servers. You contract Red Hat... they sell you support for a year long period on the latest LTS. For that year they fully support the OS. They back port security fixes. So you end up with versions like 8.5.2 -> 8.5.3 -> 8.5.4 and so on security updates but Linux proper maybe is running 8.6 or 8.7 already. The LTS version is stuck with 8.5 as they are not adding new features but continues to back port security fixes. Nothing odd going on no new features. (which may make it less or more stable can go both ways) really what it gives that company is consistency. If they are developing in house software against that version of the OS they don't have to worry that OH no all of a sudden this new python version no longer understands an argument we used cause it was removed and replaced with something new. The corp in question is not going to have to worry about rebuilding their own internal software 20 times over the course of a year as things change. They are covered with security back ports but that is it. [and rarely a company like red hat may back port an actual feature if it improves security or something else... like at one point some years back they back ported kernel upgrading without rebooting mid cycle]
When the contract runs out... that corporation can now either EXTEND their contract and continue on with what they already had running assuming support contracts for that LTS are still an option. Or they move to the next supported LTS, possibly budging funds to update anything they have to do on their own software to make that work. Often there is nothing they really have to do but corporations love to budget such expenses to the next years first quarter.
So LTS is NOT actually more stable... its just a long term frozen version of the OS/Kernel that one of the server/workstation Linux companies is selling support contracts for. Yes Linus and the Kernel team designates "LTS" versions of the kernel. But I mean that is pretty intuitive. When a LTS designated kernel gets a little old and the versioning starts to break triple digits it might be time to designate a new one. Technially right now we have 6.6.69 - 6.1.123 - 5.15.175 - 5.10.232 - 5.4.288 with 4.19.325 now on the EOL End of Line chopping block. AND god help the poor bastard with the 8 year old phone on Kernel 4.19.325 after 325 security updates the ride is over. hahaha
LTS has its place... but its not on a personal computer. IMO
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This was one hell of an answer! Thank you so much, definitely tracking now.LTS is a bit misunderstood by most people
Long Term Service. Is not actually any more stable then normal rolling Linux. There I said it.
It is just what it sounds like its a long term service version that is mostly feature locked early. Companies like Canonical, Red Hat, Suse and the like commit to service these versions of the OS for long periods. So say you are a corporation that needs 100 Linux servers. You contract Red Hat... they sell you support for a year long period on the latest LTS. For that year they fully support the OS. They back port security fixes. So you end up with versions like 8.5.2 -> 8.5.3 -> 8.5.4 and so on security updates but Linux proper maybe is running 8.6 or 8.7 already. The LTS version is stuck with 8.5 as they are not adding new features but continues to back port security fixes. Nothing odd going on no new features. (which may make it less or more stable can go both ways) really what it gives that company is consistency. If they are developing in house software against that version of the OS they don't have to worry that OH no all of a sudden this new python version no longer understands an argument we used cause it was removed and replaced with something new. The corp in question is not going to have to worry about rebuilding their own internal software 20 times over the course of a year as things change. They are covered with security back ports but that is it. [and rarely a company like red hat may back port an actual feature if it improves security or something else... like at one point some years back they back ported kernel upgrading without rebooting mid cycle]
When the contract runs out... that corporation can now either EXTEND their contract and continue on with what they already had running assuming support contracts for that LTS are still an option. Or they move to the next supported LTS, possibly budging funds to update anything they have to do on their own software to make that work. Often there is nothing they really have to do but corporations love to budget such expenses to the next years first quarter.
So LTS is NOT actually more stable... its just a long term frozen version of the OS/Kernel that one of the server/workstation Linux companies is selling support contracts for. Yes Linus and the Kernel team designates "LTS" versions of the kernel. But I mean that is pretty intuitive. When a LTS designated kernel gets a little old and the versioning starts to break triple digits it might be time to designate a new one. Technially right now we have 6.6.69 - 6.1.123 - 5.15.175 - 5.10.232 - 5.4.288 with 4.19.325 now on the EOL End of Line chopping block. AND god help the poor bastard with the 8 year old phone on Kernel 4.19.325 after 325 security updates the ride is over. hahaha
LTS has its place... but its not on a personal computer. IMO
I guess that leaves me to wonder how many companies are installing Mint vs Debian or Ubuntu... Why have an LTS for Mint? Like you said, Mint is the one always trying to poach Windows users, so an LTS doesn't really make sense, to me anyway.
Do you remember specifically what you downloaded, and where?
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IIRC, I downloaded them right from the Intel website.
Exactly. It really is completely illogical to base a distro on Ubuntu. Its a workstation distro, created to sell support contracts. I have nothing against Ubuntu... it's just not a logical base for a consumer type OS.
At least with red hat. You can sort of make a case for end users using Fedora. RHEL is the corpo locked down LTS version. Fedora is updated more frequently and without LTS hangups... its where Red Hat tests and figures things out. I still prefer a rolling release but I get Fedora. The only workstation related distro I believe has merit is Tumbleweed. SUSEs rolling release. It has many of the SLES tools, security packages and some cool toys... but is on a true rolling release. I still lean arch, if you want a rolling release from a Linux company though Tumbleweed is solid.
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I'm currently using Endeavour and besides the change from apt to pacman and yay, it's pretty clean. I spent many years using apt and sometimes habits are hard to kill.
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Nevermind... I didn't realize its not recommended for Arch Linux.
Pamac from Manjaro might be the way to go & its found on AUR.
https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Pamac
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I think it's just getting familiar with the Arch package managers and their syntaxs.
Sor example.. apt update and update make sense, from a layman's point of view. I am updating the package list and then upgrading my packages. Apt install <program> made sense to INSTALL.something..
As a comparison
pacman -S <program>
and
pacman -Syu
Are not as intuitive for the average little guy. Some day I'll read into the syntaxs. Some day between trying to finish Skyrim....
The last time I checked, mainstream Mint releases (so not edge) were still running the 5.x kernel - At this point that's at least two years out of date and roughly two years behind the current Ubuntu LTS kernel. Mint isn't strictly an LTS release.So lets base our distro on 9 month out of date bits and pieces from Ubuntu Long Term Service. A distro designed to sell Linux to corpo types, who only want to pay their IT people to do major updates once a quarter.
Not when you consider kernel regressions that still slip past the Arch devs at times, memory leaks due to Mesa regressions are more common than could be considered ideal. There is a reason why Ubuntu LTS runs a few kernel releases behind.Long Term Service. Is not actually any more stable then normal rolling Linux. There I said it.
If you were to say that rolling Linux is better suited to AMD GPU's (regressions slipping through notwithstanding), I'd tend to agree.
As a consumer I've run LTS releases for years with very few issues. The only time I encountered issues I was running Mint. This is a little like saying that preview builds of Windows are the only variants of the OS suitable for consumer use.
Ubuntu LTS is still the only desktop OS officially supported by Valve's Steam platform, to the point whereby you can download the .deb of Steam direct from Valve and install it under Ubuntu LTS.
There's a common problem here, and that problem is Mint - Mint is shite.
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Don't disagree on Mint. Ubuntu is also shite. I know we disagree there... just having fun. I mean, I mean it but still...
lolYou haven't had any issues because you have been using Linux for years and know what your doing. Average users trying out Ubuntu and nothing else generally don't stick with Linux and go running back to Microsoft and or Apple. At least Red Hat differentiates between RHEL and Fedora. (fedora isn't a workstation distro) Having a desktop and server version of Ubuntu is a misnomer imho. Its Server and Workstation versions of Ubuntu. There is no desktop version of Ubuntu. (just my opinion man)
As for the Valve thing. Don't worry Valve has some announcements coming up. As nice as it will be to see them do some sort of steam machine 2. Hopefully its time for the Steam OS3 ISO downloads for the masses. Its time for things like Mint to die yes.
acquacow
Gawd
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As someone who spent a lot of time compiling kernels in the late 90s trying to keep linux working on the desktop, and who is still dismayed at how painful fast moving updates and kernel module support for hardware still are... I disagree.
When you're trying to get work done, and /need/ to get work done, nothing is better than powering up an OS that just works properly, every time. I don't want to have to remember how I got my latest video card driver to compile, or which git repo I got it from, what patch actually worked, etc... dkms worked last kernel update, why isn't it working on the new kernel!?
I spent years managing RHEL systems at work while trying to run fedora at home and just got so tired of chasing fedora updates and compatibility that everything at home eventually just got wiped and switched to centOS.
I recently stood up a dedicated linux gaming box at home to mess with some of the newer things in steam/proton to see how linux gaming is getting along and I still have to chase kernel modules and feature issues. Trying to get things working in xorg vs wayland is also a pain. Some things work in one, but others only work in the other...
I hate to say it in a linux room like this, but that's the reason my primary desktop remains windows. I work from home and I need my desktop to work every single time. I can't spend hours troubleshooting issues connecting to work because some library changed or a kernel module is having a bad day.
My personal recommendation to OP is to spin up linux in a VM on your main desktop and get used to install/setup/customization. Break it a few times, try to fix it a few times before reinstalling, take lots of notes. If you are dual-booting, at some point you WILL F up your boot loader and that will break both environments and you won't be happy. If you want a dedicated box, get a spare off marketplace for cheap and play there, but do not sacrifice your primary workstation to experimentation.
-- Dave
I went from Windows to Ubuntu LTS, I wouldn't consider myself any smarter than anyone else here, the learning curve wasn't that great. The biggest problem is transitioning Windows users that can't get used to the idea of PPA's - The concept isn't that difficult to grasp.
Vanilla Ubuntu with all it's Snaps is shite, distro's based on Ubuntu LTS are not. I've used Arch and everything in between, I always come back to Ubuntu LTS releases. In time as immutable distro's mature, perhaps that'll change - Right now I use what works, and it works really well with an Nvidia card.
I'm even running KDE Plasma 6.2.5 and Wayland multi monitor, not a problem in the world. Today I swapped between two Nvidia drivers with a single command each time under terminal, the process was about 2 - 3 mins each time.
I have to say, I've never had to chase a kernel module or feature to get a game running (what is a feature?). As for X11 vs Wayland, all my games run fine under both.
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Linux From Scratch or bare-bones Arch Linux maybe in the current era of tech.
Deadjasper
2[H]4U
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Last time I tried Ubuntu, and it was a long time ago, the desktop was complete and utter shit. a joke even. no way in hell would I use such a monstrosity. Moved to Mint Cinnamon and all was well. It's not perfect by any means but it is usable and that all that counts for me. And did I mention Ubuntu forces you to accept their cookies before they let you in their site? Fuck them.
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"Ubuntu a long time ago" and Mint now are not even close to the same. You would be just as happy with Ubuntu or Ubuntu MATE. Same shit, different pile.
Something to keep in mind OP and new linux users reading this. Sometimes it's a lot easier to just distro hop to something newer than ubuntu/mint/debian than it is to try to fix the problem. If all you're trying to do is basic home computer stuff and gaming through steam - any distro will do. You could take all the nerds hating on each other's distros, and all their complaints, and bitchin about why this team is doing xyz wrong - you could pick ANY random linux distro and give them a choice between that and windows, and they'd all very quickly agree "oh, ya, linux is linux. I like linux. Ya I'll happily use that distro I was just complaining about" You all know I'm right
If one distro works with your hardware over another - then distro doesn't matter - easy, hard, LTS, rolling release, x, wayland, snap, flatpak, whatever. Just use what works for you IMO and we'll all be golf clapping for you on the side.
If one distro works with your hardware over another - then distro doesn't matter - easy, hard, LTS, rolling release, x, wayland, snap, flatpak, whatever. Just use what works for you IMO and we'll all be golf clapping for you on the side.
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"Anything but Windows!" is the common phrase amongst us Linux/UNIX geeks.Something to keep in mind OP and new linux users reading this. Sometimes it's a lot easier to just distro hop to something newer than ubuntu/mint/debian than it is to try to fix the problem. If all you're trying to do is basic home computer stuff and gaming through steam - any distro will do. You could take all the nerds hating on each other's distros, and all their complaints, and bitchin about why this team is doing xyz wrong - you could pick ANY random linux distro and give them a choice between that and windows, and they'd all very quickly agree "oh, ya, linux is linux. I like linux. Ya I'll happily use that distro I was just complaining about" You all know I'm right
If one distro works with your hardware over another - then distro doesn't matter - easy, hard, LTS, rolling release, x, wayland, snap, flatpak, whatever. Just use what works for you IMO and we'll all be golf clapping for you on the side.
Once I got all the non-free packages added to Debian, I had no real issues playing Steam/Lutris games. I haven’t run my primary desktop in about two years now but with my upcoming movie/music server and gaming box, I’m thinking of using something other than a Debian-based system. Whatever it ends up being, it’s going to use KDE plasma.
Linux From Scratch or bare-bones Arch Linux maybe in the current era of tech.
There's little intellectual high ground in building Arch from scratch. Been there, done that many times over. Not too sure what you're implying regarding the current era of tech - As stated, if you run an AMD GPU, then Arch would be a better choice of distro due to it's rolling implementation (although there are PPA's available regarding the latest versions of Mesa under Ubuntu LTS). However, if you're running an Nvidia GPU, I'm gonna say you'll experience less issues running a distro based on Ubuntu LTS (there I said it). My current distro of choice is KDE Neon and I have all the fancy features, I had KDE 6 before it was available under Arch.
I agree, Vanilla Ubuntu isn't great due to Canonical's insistence on Snaps - But Mint definitely isn't much better. I mean, Mint 22 has only 'just' (as of July 2024) been released and at last the default kernel for a non edge variant is 6.8 - Not to mention all the other 'new technologies' that have only just been implemented under Mint that have been implemented under almost every other popular distro for quite some time now.
Totally. And yes, Plasma is awesome.
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Completely joking since that's the "go to" on Reddit when people are describing how hard things are with Linux.