Linux Distro Suggestions

Not for gaming :)

I love gaming under Linux, I love being free of the issues surrounding Windows.

There's more titles available on Steam under Linux than Xbox and PS4 combined. If even half those titles are rubbish, which they certainly are not, than there are still more titles available under Linux than either Xbox or PS4. The fact is that in a very short time, Linux has become the second most viable gaming platform under Steam.

Apple is the platform not suitable for gaming and gaming alone is not enough of a reason for me to use Windows 10.
 
I love gaming under Linux, I love being free of the issues surrounding Windows.

There's more titles available on Steam under Linux than Xbox and PS4 combined. If even half those titles are rubbish, which they certainly are not, than there are still more titles available under Linux than either Xbox or PS4. The fact is that in a very short time, Linux has become the second most viable gaming platform under Steam.

Apple is the platform not suitable for gaming and gaming alone is not enough of a reason for me to use Windows 10.

So what does having more total games than Xbox or PS4 have do to with anything on a PC? Also, do you also happen to include all the 360 compatible games and the OG Xbox games that will be coming out? Windows is straight up better than Linux for gaming and probably always will be. The fact that it is better in Linux than it was years ago does not mean that Windows was standing still the whole time and waiting for Linux Desktop to catch up. How about tooting the Linux horn on it's own merits alone, if you can?
 
So what does having more total games than Xbox or PS4 have do to with anything on a PC? Also, do you also happen to include all the 360 compatible games and the OG Xbox games that will be coming out? Windows is straight up better than Linux for gaming and probably always will be. The fact that it is better in Linux than it was years ago does not mean that Windows was standing still the whole time and waiting for Linux Desktop to catch up. How about tooting the Linux horn on it's own merits alone, if you can?

I'm talking about gaming, PC does not encompass all when it comes to gaming no matter whether such a perspective suits your argument or not. I never stated Windows was not better for gaming, in fact I specifically indirectly stated precisely that it was. What I stated was that gaming alone is not enough of a reason for me to use Windows 10 and accept it's issues - Issues that do exist whether you want to admit it or not.

EDIT: And I haven't even considered the thousands of extra titles available under Linux now as a result of Proton/SteamPlay. I'm loving Quake Champions, another update and game play/fps is fantastic.

And I'd like sound under WINE :D

And I like an OS free from viruses, malware and updater issues with a UI that's not fragmented within the one OS making my desktop behave like a mobile phone.
 
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And I like an OS free from viruses, malware and updater issues with a UI that's not fragmented within the one OS making my desktop behave like a mobile phone.

Then use Windows 10 fully updated and you will not have those issues. :D LOL ;)

I'm talking about gaming, PC does not encompass all when it comes to gaming no matter whether such a perspective suits your argument or not.

You are deflecting there, you are the one that cited specific things about non PC gaming, I called you out on it and now you are making unsubstantiated claims about my perspective. Exactly how many specific native only games play on Linux and I am quite serious about this. I mean games that are not Windows native games, do not require WINE and uses none of the Windows binaries. (Serious question, can you answer this?)
 
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So as an update... i got tightvncserver installed and working, but issue now seems to be getting a gnome session to start. Pretty much every time i connect trying to execute gnome session, it is giving me a grey screen ith black x. I ended up installing kde desktop and if i use the startkde instead, things start up fine and i get a desktop... but my keyboard inputs are a mess (possibly because i have never logged into the kde gui except remotely?) and trying to enter my password for authorizing the remote connection has the shift key and enter keys actually showing up as characters in the password field.
Debating restarting and installing Ubuntu 18.04 server version, and installing KDE there, getting rid of gnome.
Is there any reason to prefer gnome over kde? So far gnome has seemed to be its own source of some problems (something to do with with gnome also causes Steam Big Picture to flicker when navigating the steam interface).
 
So as an update... i got tightvncserver installed and working, but issue now seems to be getting a gnome session to start. Pretty much every time i connect trying to execute gnome session, it is giving me a grey screen ith black x. I ended up installing kde desktop and if i use the startkde instead, things start up fine and i get a desktop... but my keyboard inputs are a mess (possibly because i have never logged into the kde gui except remotely?) and trying to enter my password for authorizing the remote connection has the shift key and enter keys actually showing up as characters in the password field.
Debating restarting and installing Ubuntu 18.04 server version, and installing KDE there, getting rid of gnome.
Is there any reason to prefer gnome over kde? So far gnome has seemed to be its own source of some problems (something to do with with gnome also causes Steam Big Picture to flicker when navigating the steam interface).
Happy to see an update!
The difference in display managers is preference. Some things may or may not work between them too. That's typically where "preference" is derived from, aside from the basic "look and feel" that's obvious. Try them all. Find the one that works for you. I'd recommend xubuntu if you haven't tried it already! Very lightweight, looks good, and I haven't ever experienced an issue with it. They do a really good job with it. Just remember, it's still Ubuntu at it's core.
 
Then use Windows 10 fully updated and you will not have those issues. :D LOL ;)

Bullshit you won't.

You are deflecting there, you are the one that cited specific things about non PC gaming, I called you out on it and now you are making unsubstantiated claims about my perspective. Exactly how many specific native only games play on Linux and I am quite serious about this. I mean games that are not Windows native games, do not require WINE and uses none of the Windows binaries. (Serious question, can you answer this?)

What?!

I am talking about gaming in general, you're trying to manipulate the discussion to PC only. The question about Windows binaries is ridiculous, naturally I can't answer that any more than you can, nor do I care as porting happens across all platforms. Fact is, considering gaming on the PC platform, Linux has come up as the second best platform for gaming in a very short period of time. In relation to gaming in general, Linux smashes both Xbox and PS4 - Two very serious gaming platforms.

Therefore, when it comes to gaming, Linux is very quickly becoming a very viable contender as a platform.

I know who's 'reaching' (to quote another thread) and it's certainly not myself. :rolleyes:
 
Bullshit you won't.



What?!

I am talking about gaming in general, you're trying to manipulate the discussion to PC only. The question about Windows binaries is ridiculous, naturally I can't answer that any more than you can, nor do I care as porting happens across all platforms. Fact is, considering gaming on the PC platform, Linux has come up as the second best platform for gaming in a very short period of time. In relation to gaming in general, Linux smashes both Xbox and PS4 - Two very serious gaming platforms.

Therefore, when it comes to gaming, Linux is very quickly becoming a very viable contender as a platform.

I know who's 'reaching' (to quote another thread) and it's certainly not myself. :rolleyes:

Realistically, you cannot really compare consoles to the PC, there are two entirely different platforms and serve different purposes. As for Linux being the second best, in what appears to be a two man race, with the winner being so a far ahead that they cannot even be seen, it does not mean anything. So, you are saying you have no clue how many native games there are? I can tell you right now that other than the DOS based games themselves, all Windows based games are 100% native.
 
Oh, and since when does what is being mentioned have to do with a distro suggestion? Looks like Fedora is the most solid and stable. Damn shame there is not one that rules them all, that would make a Hugh difference in the consumer market.
 
Realistically, you cannot really compare consoles to the PC, there are two entirely different platforms and serve different purposes. As for Linux being the second best, in what appears to be a two man race, with the winner being so a far ahead that they cannot even be seen, it does not mean anything. So, you are saying you have no clue how many native games there are? I can tell you right now that other than the DOS based games themselves, all Windows based games are 100% native.

When you're talking about gaming in general, you can include the Super NES if you want. Stop manipulating the argument to suite your own massively biased point of view...

As a gaming platform, Linux has very quickly become the second biggest platform regarding PC gaming, especially considering Vulkan support, quality of drivers and Steam Play/Proton. That's a fact you quite simply cannot argue.
 
And I like an OS free from viruses, malware and updater issues with a UI that's not fragmented within the one OS making my desktop behave like a mobile phone.
Ok, I love linux and all, but this is pure crap. First off, if you think for a second that linux is free from viruses, malware, and update issues, then I suggest you crawl out from under the rock you've been hiding under and read bleeping computer every now and again. Holy crap. Sure it's got less issues with this than Windows, but the belief that it's free from these issues is foolish. Update issues, yet again, far less common than with Windows or Mac lately, but it's in no way free from them.

Now, the one that really bugs me. The comment about no fragmented UI. You've got to be kidding. One example is all that's needed, QT and GTK. As an example, I use KDE Plasma, and as such I tend to try and use QT applications as much as possible for the very thing you claim doesn't exist. Mainly, I have my network shares set as favorite locations in Dolphin. Guess what doesn't give a crap about that? That's right, literally every damn GTK app under the sun. I get the shitty Nautilus file manager display in Firefox, which doesn't sort files and folders the way I like, with no exposed setting to control that without installing Nautilus or dconf editor on my Plasma desktop, and my favorites aren't present. No fragmentation? Give me a damn break. I love linux, but to sit there on your high horse and pretend like it's the second coming is absurd. What people in the OS forum in particular need is some damn perspective. None of the OSes we use, be it Windows, Mac, or Linux are perfect. Nor will they ever be. They each have issues, problems, vulnerabilities, as well as strengths. This "my platform is superior to yours bickering" is pointless and utterly stupid. It doesn't convince anyone else of your position, and just serves to get people yelling back and forth at each other.

Also, to claim that Linux is a stronger gaming platform than the consoles is objectively wrong. Numbers don't mean anything. It's about quality, not just in the available games, but also in the experience. Proton is great, I'm glad it exists, but it's also too little too late I'm afraid. It still requires workarounds to get some games working, and it unfortunately came about right as Steam started getting some actual competition in the PC games store marketplace (i.e. Epic Games Store). More and more big name developers are moving to their own storefronts, which means the advantages of Steam when it comes to AAA games is going to dissolve rapidly. I've recently switched to exclusively gaming on the Xbox One X, with a few PC exceptions, because considering the limited time I have to play games anymore (I'm the proud papa of a 1 year old now), the hassle of dealing with multiple storefronts, tweaking game settings, or trying to get a game to run on Linux just isn't worth it to me anymore. Sure consoles have their issues, but for me the convenience is paramount. Now, that's a subjective argument, but for the points given previously I think we can agree that objectively, Linux is still not a better platform than consoles or Windows for the vast majority of gamers. Most people want a frictionless experience with playing their games, and yes that means PC as well. Most PC gamers aren't like us. They don't have the level of knowledge we do, nor do they care to. They just want to be able to click buy, install, and play in that order without any fuss. Linux can not currently provide that, even with some natively supported games. Case in point, any Feral Interactive game on Arch based distros. Hence the reason Arch provides two Steam runtimes.
 
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Ok, I love linux and all, but this is pure crap. First off, if you think for a second that linux is free from viruses, malware, and update issues, then I suggest you crawl out from under the rock you've been hiding under and read bleeping computer every now and again. Holy crap. Sure it's got less issues with this than Windows, but the belief that it's free from these issues is foolish. Update issues, yet again, far less common than with Windows or Mac lately, but it's in no way free from them.

Now, the one that really bugs me. The comment about no fragmented UI. You've got to be kidding. One example is all that's needed, QT and GTK. As an example, I use KDE Plasma, and as such I tend to try and use QT applications as much as possible for the very thing you claim doesn't exist. Mainly, I have my network shares set as favorite locations in Dolphin. Guess what doesn't give a crap about that? That's right, literally every damn GTK app under the sun. I get the shitty Nautilus file manager display in Firefox, which doesn't sort files and folders the way I like, with no exposed setting to control that without installing Nautilus or dconf editor on my Plasma desktop, and my favorites aren't present. No fragmentation? Give me a damn break. I love linux, but to sit there on your high horse and pretend like it's the second coming is absurd. What people in the OS forum in particular need is some damn perspective. None of the OSes we use, be it Windows, Mac, or Linux are perfect. Nor will they ever be. They each have issues, problems, vulnerabilities, as well as strengths. This "my platform is superior to yours bickering" is pointless and utterly stupid. It doesn't convince anyone else of your position, and just serves to get people yelling back and forth at each other.

Also, to claim that Linux is a stronger gaming platform than the consoles is objectively wrong. Numbers don't mean anything. It's about quality, not just in the available games, but also in the experience. Proton is great, I'm glad it exists, but it's also too little too late I'm afraid. It still requires workarounds to get some games working, and it unfortunately came about right as Steam started getting some actual competition in the PC games store marketplace (i.e. Epic Games Store). More and more big name developers are moving to their own storefronts, which means the advantages of Steam when it comes to AAA games is going to dissolve rapidly. I've recently switched to exclusively gaming on the Xbox One X, with a few PC exceptions, because considering the limited time I have to play games anymore (I'm the proud papa of a 1 year old now), the hassle of dealing with multiple storefronts, tweaking game settings, or trying to get a game to run on Linux just isn't worth it to me anymore. Sure consoles have their issues, but for me the convenience is paramount. Now, that's a subjective argument, but for the points given previously I think we can agree that objectively, Linux is still not a better platform than consoles or Windows for the vast majority of gamers. Most people want a frictionless experience with playing their games, and yes that means PC as well. Most PC gamers aren't like us. They don't have the level of knowledge we do, nor do they care to. They just want to be able to click buy, install, and play in that order without any fuss. Linux can not currently provide that, even with some natively supported games. Case in point, any Feral Interactive game on Arch based distros. Hence the reason Arch provides two Steam runtimes.

Under my chosen distro, GTK and QT applications render quite well in relation to the chosen theme, Windows is by far not perfect in this regard either and is actually intentionally 'designed' with two fragmented UI's in the one OS. Naturally, if you choose to use KDE than Qt is going to be more apparent as an issue, that's the direction this specific DM has chosen to take and due to so called 'fragmentation' luckily we all have the choice to use another DM under Linux. If we were running Windows 10 our options would be very limited - Essentially non existent.

As far as viruses and malware are concerned, there is absolutely no doubting whatsoever that Windows as a platform is plagued with such problems and Linux as a platform is not - No 'rock' involved, that's the absolute reality of the situation. Why Linux is virtually issue free in this regard in direct comparison to Windows I don't care to speculate, however I can assure you that it's got more to do with the simple popularity of Windows.

Also, to claim that Linux is a stronger gaming platform than the consoles is objectively wrong. Numbers don't mean anything. It's about quality, not just in the available games, but also in the experience. Proton is great, I'm glad it exists, but it's also too little too late I'm afraid. It still requires workarounds to get some games working, and it unfortunately came about right as Steam started getting some actual competition in the PC games store marketplace (i.e. Epic Games Store). More and more big name developers are moving to their own storefronts, which means the advantages of Steam when it comes to AAA games is going to dissolve rapidly. I've recently switched to exclusively gaming on the Xbox One X, with a few PC exceptions, because considering the limited time I have to play games anymore (I'm the proud papa of a 1 year old now), the hassle of dealing with multiple storefronts, tweaking game settings, or trying to get a game to run on Linux just isn't worth it to me anymore. Sure consoles have their issues, but for me the convenience is paramount. Now, that's a subjective argument, but for the points given previously I think we can agree that objectively, Linux is still not a better platform than consoles or Windows for the vast majority of gamers. Most people want a frictionless experience with playing their games, and yes that means PC as well. Most PC gamers aren't like us. They don't have the level of knowledge we do, nor do they care to. They just want to be able to click buy, install, and play in that order without any fuss. Linux can not currently provide that, even with some natively supported games. Case in point, any Feral Interactive game on Arch based distros. Hence the reason Arch provides two Steam runtimes.

Linux has more titles than both Xbox and PS4, the number's don't lie and there's nothing wrong with the quality of the titles available under Linux. What you're attempting to claim is that gaming under console is somehow better because console receives a number of AAA ports, problem is gaming is very subjective and AAA doesn't equal 'better'. There are all sorts of gamers and the raw numbers don't lie, there are more titles available under Linux than Xbox and PS4 combined and even if half of those titles were garbage there are still more titles available for Linux than either Xbox or PS4. Linux also gets a number of AAA titles from time to time.

I've never had to use any workaround to get a title downloaded off the Steam platform working under Proton - I just download, install, run and in no way do I see Proton as "too little, too late", in fact considering the push from the Vulkan consortium in relation to DX12 and DX12's limitations in relation to OS support, even under the Windows platform, I see the timing of Proton as perfect - The point of Proton is to encourage developers to stop using overzealous DRM and anticheat systems and adopt Vulkan as the common API of choice. Fact is: In a very short span of time Linux has become the second most viable PC gaming platform and it works very well with very good performance in most instances - That is no small achievement.

In relation to games stores, I personally see Epic games as blatantly ignorant, but I understand the importance of their main title in relation to platform popularity. Yes, it's disappointing that the owner of the company can't see past his own overinflated ego, but Steam's still the common PC gaming platform of choice and it's not going anywhere any time soon. Valve have recently tweaked their pricing to make their platform more attractive to developers, so they're by no means sitting on their hands doing nothing while the world passes them by.

Gaming alone is by far not enough of a reason for me, personally, to put up with Windows 10 and I find gaming under Linux to be improving at a very impressive rate. Nothing I have claimed is untrue or inaccurate and the fact that I say it in defense of Linux does not indicate that it's in any way invalid as an opinion in comparison to your own. You know just where you can stick your 'pure crap' comment.
 
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It is pure crap.

You're weaseling around the facts to support your narrative, and in doing so you're equating pong-grade ports to AAA-games. It'd be funnier if it weren't so sad.

Worse, is that you'd rather run with some theological conviction than use the right tool for the job.

So many things in Linux are equivalent in name only; and we cannot even pay to get real equivalents. The ecosystem limitations and the UI fragmentation are very real. And the criticism of the Windows UI is silly- it's as if you've never heard of Classic Shell.

Last, you tout Linux security as a plus- but security through obscurity is not security! Praying that vulnerabilities remain unexploited is not a security posture!
 
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Under my chosen distro, GTK and QT applications render quite well in relation to the chosen theme, Windows is by far not perfect in this regard either and is actually intentionally 'designed' with two fragmented UI's in the one OS. Naturally, if you choose to use KDE than Qt is going to be more apparent as an issue, that's the direction this specific DM has chosen to take and due to so called 'fragmentation' luckily we all have the choice to use another DM under Linux. If we were running Windows 10 our options would be very limited - Essentially non existent.

As far as viruses and malware are concerned, there is absolutely no doubting whatsoever that Windows as a platform is plagued with such problems and Linux as a platform is not - No 'rock' involved, that's the absolute reality of the situation. Why Linux is virtually issue free in this regard in direct comparison to Windows I don't care to speculate, however I can assure you that it's got more to do with the simple popularity of Windows.



Linux has more titles than both Xbox and PS4, the number's don't lie and there's nothing wrong with the quality of the titles available under Linux. What you're attempting to claim is that gaming under console is somehow better because console receives a number of AAA ports, problem is gaming is very subjective and AAA doesn't equal 'better'. There are all sorts of gamers and the raw numbers don't lie, there are more titles available under Linux than Xbox and PS4 combined and even if half of those titles were garbage there are still more titles available for Linux than either Xbox or PS4. Linux also gets a number of AAA titles from time to time.

I've never had to use any workaround to get a title downloaded off the Steam platform working under Proton - I just download, install, run and in no way do I see Proton as "too little, too late", in fact considering the push from the Vulkan consortium in relation to DX12 and DX12's limitations in relation to OS support, even under the Windows platform, I see the timing of Proton as perfect. Fact is: In a very short span of time Linux has become the second most viable PC gaming platform and it works very well with very good performance in most instances - That is no small achievement.

In relation to games stores, I personally see Epic games as blatantly ignorant, but I understand the importance of their main title in relation to platform popularity. Yes, it's disappointing that the owner of the company can't see past his own overinflated ego, but Steam's still the common PC gaming platform of choice and it's not going anywhere any time soon. Valve have recently tweaked their pricing to make their platform more attractive to developers, so they're by no means sitting on their hands doing nothing while the world passes them by.

Gaming alone is by far not enough of a reason for me, personally, to put up with Windows 10 and I find gaming under Linux to be improving at a very impressive rate. Nothing I have claimed is untrue or inaccurate and the fact that I say it in defense of Linux does not indicate that it's in any way invalid as an opinion in comparison to your own. You know just where you can stick your 'pure crap' comment.
Ok, I'm not going to keep going back and forth, but yeah, pretty much everything you've said is wrong. I'll keep this short. As far as Linux specific malware, ever heard of Mirai? If not, look it up. Just one example of the many existing Linux malware's out there. Now, as I said in my original post, WINDOWS IS WORSE AT THIS. I never said it wasn't. What I said, if you'd have actually read it you'd know this, was that Linux isn't completely free from malware. Just in the last year we've seen malware in the official Ubuntu Snap repo and the AUR. There are many CVE's written against the kernel alone, and let's not even get into the various services that have had issues, Drupal anyone? It happens whether you want to admit it or not. Links to examples are below.

As far as KDE, what the hell are you even going on about? I didn't say anything about rendering, nor have I had any issues with KDE rendering GTK or QT applications. My example had to do with different UI elements being used because of the fragmentation. That's why I gave an example about Firefox, a GTK application, using the Nautilus file manager dialog for saving files, and how it's inconsistent with my QT configurations. I put up with it, but to pretend it isn't a fragmentation issue is hypocritical.

Proton. Well, I'm happy for you, but a quick trip to Proton DB and looking at a few games shows a multitude of games that require workarounds. The whole "well it doesn't happen to me so it must not exist argument" is a fallacy made by people who can't provide evidence to back up their claims. As far as the timing goes, see my next point.

Gaming on Linux redux. Yet again you take my argument out of context. I brought up AAA games, because that's mainstream, not as an indication of quality. In fact, I made the argument that end user experience is paramount, i.e. how easy is it to play the games you want to play? Linux loses on this front. I put up with the issues when I play games on Linux because I love Linux, but most consumers aren't going to. I thought I had made this clear. The reason I said consoles are better for me is their simplicity. I also stated in my post that that was a subjective opinion.

Steam. Too big to fail. How many companies have failed that were the standard bearer and then died? Steam has had customer service and support issues for years, and now the AAA developers are starting to jump ship. Like it or not, AAA's are what drive most consumers to a platform. If you lose those your platform will fade away. The one exception I can think of being GOG, but that's been their model from the start. They found a niche, targeted it, and have been successful in doing so. This is not the case with Valve. But, only time will tell.

Conclusion. Not once in my previous post did I advocate for the use of Windows. All I attempted to do was point out that no platform is perfect, and that ideally we could all just agree to disagree or something. I didn't say you were an idiot for choosing linux, would be kinda dumb of me since I use it too. What I do see however, is you are blinded by fanboyism, hatred of Windows, or whatever else it may be to the point that you can't make objective reasonable arguments. The claims you've made in this thread are either hyperbolic or opinion stated as fact. And yes, in most statements you have been demonstrably wrong.

https://www.linuxuprising.com/2018/05/malware-found-in-ubuntu-snap-store.html
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/malware-found-in-arch-linux-aur-package-repository/

EDIT: One other thing I'd like to point out. The whole number of games on Linux argument you made. Now, this is a thought based purely on a guess, but based on the amount of shovelware I've seen on the Steam storefront, I'd put money on it that more than half of the available games on Linux are shovelware crap. Like I said, I have no evidence for this, but considering how widespread the problem is known to be between asset flippers, clicker games, rpg maker games, etc, I'd honestly be willing to make that bet. How many games are released daily that are Unity engine asset flips that support Linux? I bet the number is quite high. Granted, this is a Steam problem, their quality control is SHIT, but it does potentially poke wholes in your argument. You said that I argued AAA games equal quality, I didn't, but I would say that even some of the worst AAA games are better quality than the best asset flip. I'd also like to point out that quantity also does not equal quality.

EDIT2: One more Linux related security breach. Equifax. Heard of them? Yeah, their Linux servers running stupidly unpatched Apache were breached resulting in that hack. But you know, Linux and it's related applications never have security issues right?
 
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I never once stated that Linux was 'free from malware'. However, comparatively speaking in direct comparison to Windows, it literally is. Naturally you were speaking in relation to UI elements when discussing GTK vs Qt, personally I see the fragmentation regarding Windows 10 and their fail of a touch/desktop UI more of an issue than Qt vs GTK ever was. Off the top of my head, I have one Qt application that obviously struggles to conform to my DE's UI elements, but even then, it does a pretty damn good job of hiding the fact.

Naturally, if you're going to attempt to run titles that aren't rated gold, than you're going to have issues. I don't run anything unless it's gold rated at minimum and from what I can gather based on the ProtonDB statistics, 28% of all samples submitted are rated gold and 24% of all samples submitted are rated platinum - That's pretty good statistics for titles that haven't even been whitelisted by Steam yet. Personally, I'm currently playing Quake Champions and forget that it's not a native Linux title.

Hard core users may enjoy tweaking the lower rated titles, getting them to run under Linux. But considering the average gamer, there's plenty there that's as simple as download, install, play - Just like native.

So once again, I disagree with your argument that games aren't simple to install and play under Linux. There's 'far more' shovelware under Windows than there is under Linux. As stated, if half the titles under Linux were crap (shovelware), there would still be more titles than either Xbox or PS4. Fact is, as I stated, Linux has fast become the second best gaming platform on PC, which is no small achievement.

Nothing I have stated is hyperbole.
 
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Don't bother replying with rubbish like that. Please.

You've shown that you're willing to redefine 'average gamer' in order to support your bias.

You're also very clearly showing that you believe gamers just need games to play, and that which games are available is somehow unimportant.
 
People talk about this apparent fragmentation of Linux distributions like it's a bad thing, then we have Gnome doing their best to lock down the Linux UI to what I consider to be the worst DE available for Linux - The greater issue is that the restrictions Gnome are placing on GTK+ are flowing upstream to other DE's.

For example, if I update my distro of choice (which is not using the Gnome DE) to 18.04, I loose the functionality to change the colour's of my theme, the tab that allows me to do so quite simply isn't there! The reason why it isn't there, as evidenced in a discussion with one of the developers regarding my distro, is solely due to GTK+ restrictions flowing upstream - What's more, the Gnome powers that be want to remove theming altogether!

No operating system's perfect, but one of the strength's of Linux is freedom of choice and the ability for the end user to tweak their operating system exactly as they like according to their personal preferences/needs. It's for this reason that I simply refuse to recommend any distro using Gnome as it's DE of choice.

It's bad enough the Government's of the world are hellbent on destroying certain freedoms and life choices without certain consortiums telling me exactly how I should use my PC and exactly how that experience should look and behave. Such freedom's are one of the reason's I prefer open source operating systems in the first place.
 
It is pure crap.

You're weaseling around the facts to support your narrative, and in doing so you're equating pong-grade ports to AAA-games. It'd be funnier if it weren't so sad.

Worse, is that you'd rather run with some theological conviction than use the right tool for the job.

So many things in Linux are equivalent in name only; and we cannot even pay to get real equivalents. The ecosystem limitations and the UI fragmentation are very real. And the criticism of the Windows UI is silly- it's as if you've never heard of Classic Shell.

Last, you tout Linux security as a plus- but security through obscurity is not security! Praying that vulnerabilities remain unexploited is not a security posture!

Classic Shell ? you mean that buggy windows reskin stuff. lol If your going to compare UIs you gotta stick to windows real stable one. If windows had an official sanctioned way to run alternate UIs I would agree with you. LIinux is designed to be modular windows is not.

There is no UI fragmentation in Linux. There is UI options. GTK, GTK+ QT.... are program frameworks. WIndows has 100s of them so give me a break. Adobe software uses QT and looks completely different from windows library software to the point of having to rezise things as well. Its an issue that effects every OS with the possible acception of MacOS as Apple just denies software that doesn't use their APIs from their platform.

On the last point. NO linux is not more secure through obscurity. I shoot this one down all the time... and it drives me nuts cause its one of the stupidest lines of reasoning I have ever heard. Linux is the most popular OS/Kernel on the planet. It powers android the largest consumer installed OS in the world. It powers 70-80% of juicy target corp data servers in the world. It powers 90% of the worlds web servers and the remaining 10% is mostly powered by Unix servers which share many of the same security bits.

Linux is more secure because it is. There are multiple reasons for this on the back end. But the biggest reason it is more secure for CONSUMERS is because it doesn't allow you to use an admin account as a user account. There are many reasons I find windows server to be a terrible security option... but the truth is windows itself isn't THAT insecure. I don't feel like going and finding the article again... but not that long ago one of the major security firms suggested 90% or so of all windows malware would die off if the practice of admin prviledge user accounts ended completely.

EDIT:

also classic shell isn't even actively developed anymore.
http://www.classicshell.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8147
 
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When/why did this thread devolve from a discussion on Linux distros into a Linux/Windows slap-fight? It's gone waaayyyy off topic.

Well, I did not start it but I am guilty of participating in it. Ultimately, if that had something that behaved just like OS/2 Warp 4, I would pick that up as my choice. (Not just look and feel.) I do miss those Amiga and OS/2 OSes of the 90's.
 
Well, I did not start it but I am guilty of participating in it. Ultimately, if that had something that behaved just like OS/2 Warp 4, I would pick that up as my choice. (Not just look and feel.) I do miss those Amiga and OS/2 OSes of the 90's.

Wouldn't mind a new version of warp. Who knows now that IBM owns red hat perhaps they will rename fedora... lol

Red Hat Warp. I like it.
 
Works great, and it isn't the only option.

Its no longer developed.

Sure there are others but they are all HACKS.

Linux uses a modular system run one or 20 different DEs if you like. Its designed to do that. No hacking of windows .dll libraries or registraies or anything else that may (or may not) cause you grief down the road. :)
 
And?

You're complaining about theory; there are actively developed alternatives available. Assuming that you are incapable of adjusting to new UIs, which if you've used more than one Linux DE, you've done.

These days I don't find the default Windows 10 UI an issue, but I don't find Gnome or KDE to be an issue either, and do like Budgie, but MATE I think is what I've settled on.

Of course, it's all about using the right tool for the job. I have quite a number of different distros and DEs that I use at home and at work.
 
The older I get the more firmly I cement the experience that distro's are just job oriented. If I HAD to put linux on a modern laptop for work I would use Ubuntu/Mint, although this is one area that windows 10 is pretty strong. Desktop I would only put debian stable or MX Linux (which has been on my desktop for years now.) Really old equipment or ultralight I would go with Peppermint, which is basically a linux version of Chrome OS from before there was a Chrome os...

For gaming, I just don't give a crap anymore. I purchased an Xbox one x, my first console that I actually used since Super Nintindo/N64 and it's fantastic for the 4-6 hours of gaming I do every 2-6 weeks.
 
Everything was slow and crashed- and drivers were buggy as hell?

Lol...

No, that's Windows. ;)

One from my very large personal collection. Gee, Yer don't say Microsoft. Thanks for the insight.

63RKnnQ.jpg
 
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Everything was slow and crashed- and drivers were buggy as hell?

Lol...

Think your remembering MS-DOS running machines. ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_TOS

Sadly the wrong MS Operating system won out cause ya business. Not faulting MS for pushing their own thing either... don't get me wrong. At&T screwed themselves. (or the gov screwed us all when they broke up bell... making their software division an important revenue generator)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_V
There was a time when everyone not IBM was betting on another path.... versions of System 4 was found on Ataris, Amigas, Apples, Sony, Sun ect. Companies like Atari even had Unix S5 shipping units for awhile powered by very nice hardware.

Believe it or not at one point the majority of Unix running computers in the world where running the system 4 complaint Xenix.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix

Its really too bad that when AT&T and Bell where broke up in the early 80s that the software division ended up being looked at as a revenue generator in a new way. They where happy to licence everything to MS prior... but at that point AT&T started selling their own system V OS. MS really didn't have much choice but to go their own way and abandon xenix. Thus was born IBM/MS OS/2 project... from which came NT and every version of windows since. If only when the Bell break up happened open source had been what it was today. I imagine today it would have ended up being spun out into something like the Linux foundation. If that had happened. "windows" would never have happened... and we would all likely be running Unix system 8 or 9 complaint Operating systems at this point. (perhaps even from multiple PC vendors... imagine Ataris and Commadores running MS Xenix 10) lol

Alt Universe stuff.... lol one where updates didn't break everything and BSOD would be a strange combo of keys to typo and nothing more.
 
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