Linux Desktop requires patience

Discussion in 'Linux/BSD/Free Systems' started by ManofGod, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. FNtastic

    FNtastic Gawd

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  2. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Soon. :D Soon. :)
     
  3. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    It feels odd defending our friend mog. He has said though he tried 2 different netplan running distros and... although I agree there is 100% a way to do what he wants of course, just the basic setup wasn't perfect. Switch to a non netplan running distro and things worked with minimal setup.

    As I said I'm not trying to slam Ubuntu. Its a fine distro and people seem to like it. I'm guess it is Netplan that is causing said behaviour.. it seems to be the source of the issue imo. Manjaro as he states was click and go. I bet Fedora Suse or Debian would all likewise just be click and go for his specific setup. I like the idea of netplan and I can see how it could be advantageous to someone setting up a complicated network with mulitple private and public setups and potentially many LAN cards. (I know from experience having multi lan card systems and having to replace one requires a bunch of work... from what I have read netplan could potentially make such instances a lot quicker swap and go)

    So 2 potentials as I see it for mogs issues;
    1) Ubuntus use of netplan requires some sort of added setup for whatever his config is exactly
    2) Manjaro is possibly running a newer version of the kernel with an included driver revision. (I tend to think its not this one however as Intel tends to be really good about getting their hardware drivers in the kernel before things ship... and Intel drivers are written by Intel not someone else) That and the newest Ubuntu LTS isn't that old... its not like it would be on a year+ old kernel or anything.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  4. FNtastic

    FNtastic Gawd

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    I walked away from Arch altogether when they pushed package updates that hard broke the system. I don't have time to hand hold my operating system when I need to be using my computer. That's my criticism with that whole Rolling Release model. Manjaro is included. During any update, be prepared to read through the developers instructions and possibly understand code ManofGod
    There are pros and cons to both. I figured since Debian base is getting its fair share of getting aired out, I'd point out that Arch (and therefore Manjaro) can and will intentionally break your whole system "because it's your responsibility" to read and understand every release note for every single package and change...
     
  5. tbg

    tbg Limp Gawd

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    Sure its possible netplan has a bug, well i know it has bugs, but before everyone goes throwing that out there as the cause of this issue take a look at what it actually does, and dosn't do. It doesn't actually configure the interfaces, setup routes, change dns, all it really does is shove the settings its configured for into systemd-networkd or networkmanager, those are what actually deal with the interfaces. Sure it may have settings for interfaces, routes, dns, but it does not actually do any setting up of those itself, and even then only tells those services to do something if you have made changes to the yml files. the OP said he was sing the gui, so i am doubtful that netplan is even coming in to play.

    Also this is not specifically addressed at the OP. Distro hopping when your run in to a problem is only going to slow down your learning of how things work. A lot of people do it, i have done it myself, more so when I started out then now. At some point you will probably learn that actually all the distros suck, just in their own special way, and you are best off just sticking with the one that sucks in the way that annoys you the least and fighting through the problems as they pop up. You will spend a lot less time reinstalling and a lot more time learning that way.
     
  6. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Only thing is, at least in this case, although I know it is not directed at me, it still needed to be determined if it was something to do with the Ubuntu Distro or not. I can live boot Ubuntu anyways but the crazy thing is, why would these distributions not have something as basic as IFConfig installed already? (I am quite serious about that.)
     
  7. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    Manjaro isn't Arch. In the same way Ubuntu isn't Debian.

    Manjaro is rolling but not bleeding edge rolling. Standard Manjaro archives are held for testing. Manjaro has an unstable repo which is basically just arch. So you can choose with Manjaro bleeding edge arch with the manjaro installer and tools... or Manjaro as its aimed at every day users. Where packages are tested for days to months as needed to ensure stability. (its really no different imo then running ubuntu or fedora where there are multiple minor versions between LTS releases)

    I wouldn't argue Manjaro is a great server OS, its not. However IMO its the much better desktop OS vs Ubuntu and pretty much everything else. The thing with Ubuntu everyone I know that tries to use it as a desktop OS end up with 10+ PPAs setup to install bleeding edge versions of software with ZERO testing being done vs the distro repos. Yes its possible to install the latest greatest just released today Nvidia drivers... or the just pushed to GIT version of any bit of software if you install the right PPA. Of course then your basically just running hodge podge of old packages and bleeding edge new.

    Which is why ime I say if your an average Linux desktop user planning to play games on steam, use the latest office software, you want the bleeding edge video player ect. Go with Manjaro. Things will go smoother. They push all the latest stuff after holding it for as long as need be (normally 2 weeks or so) ensuring everything works and doesn't cause issues. In the last couple of years I haven't had a Manjaro system do anything stupid for me. The only bad thing I can say is at times they hold things for longer then I like... nothing worse then waiting for them to push a major Nvidia driver bump. lol

    If you need a server OS... I guess people like Ubuntu. IMO SUSE or even just vanilla Debian are better options.

    I get what you guys are saying though. Distro hopping every time you run into an issue isn't a great long term solution. Figuring out why things aren't working as you expect is always the best plan of action.
     
  8. tbg

    tbg Limp Gawd

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    Don't get me started on that, It drives me crazy, hehe. ifconfig is considered deprecated these days. I started with unix before linux so its hard for me to let it go. It seems like my list of 'standard' tools i got to install on a fresh machine is always growing. People love to reinvent the wheel, so now we have 'ip', its good to be able to work with both, but i don't see how its better.
     
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  9. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed Gawd

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    Why doesn't Windows have telnet installed by default? I use telnet for diagnosis of networking issues all the time.

    It's not hard to enter 'sudo install ifconfig' and no OS is immune from these issues. I also don't find ifconfig altogether that useful and can understand why it was depreciated, 'nmcli dev show [interface name]' is a far more useful command.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  10. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed Gawd

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    I still stand by the fact that I've had very little in the way of issues adding PPA's, and you know how many PPA's I have added to my system! if anyone's going to have issues, it's me. ;)

    Honestly, I really like the concept of PPA's. Like FNtastic, my experiences with Arch and reliability wern't overly great. This 16.04 install has been solid as a rock.
     
  11. FNtastic

    FNtastic Gawd

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    Oh I love the idea too. Don't get me wrong. Arch and Manjaro are great. Just not for me. And everyone, including OP, should be aware of the pitfalls.
    That's the beauty in Linux. You have distributions to choose from. Find what you like and what works for you.
    On another note, the industry standard for servers is not Ubuntu. It's CentOS, RHEL, etc. Fedora is their bleeding edge. So, if you really want a "server distribution", go with CentOS. It's much more stable. If you want a server OS with the "latest and greatest", then you have Fedora. Which gets you bleeding edge server OS. it's their test bed for RHEL...
    Ubuntu is making waves with some of their software like MaaS. However, I can't ever remember seeing their server distro installed on anything in production. But, with the introduction of some of their software, I'm sure some are adopting their OS.
    Part of using Linux is finding what works for you. And, there's likely a distro that already fits what you need. It's nice that testing could be done with different distributions. It's also nice that there are plenty of options for all of us to choose from.
    On another note, I am interested to see where Manjaro and Arch are today. If I get some free time, I might pop in a live CD and poke around. I don't think anything can convince me to move from LM 19 as it's been rock solid for me. But, who knows. Anything could happen.
     
  12. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    *Le sigh* This has nothing to do with the reason I started the thread. However, the Wireless-AC 3168 that I use in my Taichi system only has a max speed of 433Mbps and does not support MIMO. :( That means the best I will see is around 250Mbps to 300Mbps and I have a 400Mbps internet connection. Oh well, just a heads up, I am not going to use the power line adapters because I do not fully trust the wiring where I live. A couple of the sockets are wired backwards and although it works for power, it would probably not work for the power line adapters.
     
  13. tbg

    tbg Limp Gawd

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    Had no idea that Windows had dropped telnet, I am pretty sure it was included by default at some point 98/nt4.0 days. Yeah it can be a pain when its not there and you need it, and while it is probably more of a pain to add it back then say doing so in centos. I prefer not to use window did something wrong as a justification for any choice some other OS made.

    Ifconfig is in the net-tools package, not ifconfig at least in centos/ubuntu, just in case someone is actually goes looking for it. which also gets back netstat, arp, route, and a few other things. It's fine if you are happy with nmcli. I never advocating removing any of the new tools, I still prefer the tools that are available on all the nix style OS. While it is easy to add the package when the you have access to the internet, the most likely time someone would go looking for those tools is when the network was not working. At least they saved that less then 1Mb of disk space. Anyways its not generally a problem for me, i know its not going to be there, so i make sure to add it on all my new installs, i only mentioned said anything about it since the OP mentioned it not being there.
     
  14. Algrim

    Algrim [H]ard|Gawd

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    Pretty sure you derailed your own thread by not following up for the most part with what the community was asking for to help you.
     
  15. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Nah, just no time at this time to do the other stuff. I have not forgotten though. However, any suggestions on what you quoted or short of getting a better wireless adapter, am I stuck? Thanks.
     
  16. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    Personally I tend to agree with this theory. I have had all sorts of problems with networking in Ubuntu that I have not had with base Debian or other Distros. I typically manually setup most of my network configurations, but for some reason Ubuntu likes to completely ignore manual setups. You occasionally have to go through extra effort in Ubuntu to do some networking tasks. I am not really sure what benefit netplan is supposed to have, but any advanced networking I typically do with my own configurations rather than relying on some fancy software package to try and do it for me.
     
  17. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    It was disabled for security reasons. Windows is made for the lowest common denominator. Telnet is an inherently insecure protocol. You can enable it through Program Features. That said, it is simple enough to download PuTTY which is much better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  18. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    Not sure what you are expecting from this? Are you suggesting this is an issue with the Linux drivers for the adapter or are you saying this is a limitation of the hardware itself? Are you wanting suggestions on better adapters that work well with Linux? You could also potentially add an Access Point with switch ports and then run a hard line to the system.
     
  19. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    More of a verification that the information I found was correct, thanks. I will get the other information that was requested sometime this week, no problem.
     
  20. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    That didn't answer any of the questions I was asking... If it's hardware, the only solution is to find better hardware. If it is a driver issue, there may be some other drivers you can try, people have been known to write their own drivers for Linux and share them.
     
  21. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    I believe- you'll want to research it yourself, but it's a start- that the adapter ASRock includes may be able to be swapped out like a laptop adapter. Intel produces much more modern adapters. Failing that, you may be able to find a PCIe adapter (usually passive) that would let you run the latest and greatest in a standard PCIe slot.
     
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  22. tbg

    tbg Limp Gawd

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    Disabling the telnet on the server for security reasons was fine, i don't think anyone would argue that. On the other hand taking out the client is annoying, it is useful for things other then actual telnet.
     
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  23. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't see any issue with it. The number of people that actually need it for anything are extremely limited to the total number of users. And those that need it should know how to install the feature or get another client like PuTTY.
     
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  24. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

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    I'll say that I agree with both of you... and PuTTY should be included as a locally installable tool by default, if an equivalent isn't developed.

    And an equivalent could just be putting that stuff into the SSH process that's available in Powershell. The client for which should be installed by default.

    Hate having to do that after an install so I can remote into my Linux stuff!
     
  25. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    Btw, Windows still has telnet that you can turn on locally on the system. So it wasn't completely removed. Or you can also get ssh for Windows.

    EDIT: Just listing the tools, I also have been annoyed in the past without having easily usable tools at my immediate command in Windows like I normally due with Linux. I also tend to like other programs (like PuTTY or Terminal Emulators) better than the inherent Windows programs.
     
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  26. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Have not forgotten, going to give those commands a go this weekend. :) The only reason I disliked the removal of ifconfig is it would be like Apple removing ifconfig or Microsoft removing ipconfig, it is just a command that has been around forever and is easy to remember.
     
  27. tbg

    tbg Limp Gawd

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    yeah, i agree it would be nice to have putty in windows default, its one of the first things I end up installing on the the few windows boxes I do use. Also since its web page is in some guys public_html dir, and i end up tripple checking i am at the right place before I download it.
     
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