Linus Has Some Things to Say about Core i9 and X299

I agree with him on a few points. I never understood the Kaby Lake inclusion on x299. The point is high end, but they include a dual channel, relatively lower end CPU option? That's the opposite of what this platform is.

I was not aware of the RAID key thing, and I agree that's really shitty of Intel to do.

Intel does seem to be taking a wait and see approach. If Threadripper does well they can open the floodgates, but if it does poor they can just cancel their future plans.

Intel doesn't really want to commit to this yet, they just want to say they have an answer to people buying TR.
 
I enjoy most of the videos produced by my fellow Canadian. This one had some solid points that I myself had been pondering. I tried explaining this new chipset to a friend last week...it didn't go smoothly.
 
I thought Intel was just overcharging for all their chips as their SOP but thier chips had the edge in processing power so it was ok. However 5% speed increase for a 100% price premium makes so little sense.

The fact they are crippling their boards and features behind massive paywalls unless you go for the top level is absolutely anti-consumer and will drive people to go Threadripper.

Thinking about it, i had a i7 920 for 8 years, and only upgraded because I wanted newer features, not because of processing power. Intel has been lazy and milking consumers for years and so happy to see AMD finally step up.
 
AMD will continue to be a consumer friendly option, but only for as long as they need to. Personally I can see buying a threadripper, I don't game, I do productivity stuffs and I'm hoping it will cheap vs what you get from the blue team. The pricing on these multi core behemoths should all shake out in a reasonable amount of time.
 
If he wants to understand the intricacies of largest semiconductor company in the world, then he should either go work in a large corporation or get to know people working the day to day job (not the PR press release crap).

You can't just judge these companies solely by their end product.....so many other factors go into decisions that have ZERO to do with customer wow factor. Guy is way too over emotional.
 
For purely talking about the consumer's view of things, judging the end product is the primary concern for consumers. Looking at Linus's video in context of him complaining about Intel in regards to consumers, it's quite clear that the things he's saying are perfectly valid, maybe a little emotional, but I guess that comes from the disappointment of having Intel do what's it's doing.
 
westrock2000 said:
If he wants to understand the intricacies of largest semiconductor company in the world, then he should either go work in a large corporation or get to know people working the day to day job (not the PR press release crap).

You can't just judge these companies solely by their end product.....so many other factors go into decisions that have ZERO to do with customer wow factor. Guy is way too over emotional.
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Pretty sure you can and what 99% of what people do.

You judge everything based on the end product or the lifestyle they are selling. The end user wont give any shits what happens inside thier computer, let alone inside Intel.
 
Spire3660 said:
Like it or not, Linus burned all his IT cred when they revealed their production server was run on X99 after it melted down. No SLA, no fallback, just a cluster fuck of amateurism.
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Wait... wait... LTT had IT cred? Have you seen his videos on "whole room water cooling"? Much of their deal for the past year or so seems to be comedy over anything else. At least they're honest in their stupidity at times.
 
Yes, but there are many other things that go into designing this, it's not just about performance or features. You have to worry about reliability, not just 90 days from now, but 5 years from now, 10 years from now. It's a very complex design so there are probably tons and tons of red tape and bureaucracy within the company. And then you have ALL the other facets of technology that Intel has their hands in. Sure, we all have a laundry list of these we'd like to see.....but it doesn't mean that what we want is practical.
 
Snowdog said:
I wonder if his channel would have got of the ground if his name was John. I am thinking mistaken identity got him a lot of hits.
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Not really, his following started due to making videos for NCIX , Canada is a heavy tech and internet consumer and he had a following before he wandered off to his own channel. Canadians get around and linked him on forums like these and it sort of evolved. I bet his name had little to do with it, it's not an uncommon name at all.

Having said that, I don't like him, it's like tech for kindergarten.
 
So many people say we must just buy what is good for us. Usually that is true, but we need to think carefully. Intel has taken the whole world for a ride for ten years. They first used unethical means to basically destroy AMD and then just sat on technology, not going anywhere, just like any good old monopoly does. Now the rants might follow of how this was just business. If so, why did Intel get a huge fine for? So you want to argue that the courts are wrong and you are right? The only thing I believe the courts did wrong, was to give Intel a way to small slap on the wrist.

Now, if you are going to continue to support such a behemoth (rather Leviathan) of a company, then after AMD is dead and buried, don't cry why there is again no progress in technology. You'll then have to wait for ARM to progress for the next few decades to begin touching only slightly on Intel's ground. I have to admit that currently I do have an Intel notebook, but only because my employer gave me no other options. But even if I did buy one myself, there were no real alternatives available. What has changed now? There is an alternative! It is a good alternative and let's say AMD is 10% or even 20% slower than Intel, it is way safer to buy them now in support than to support Intel into staying a monopoly. I say this, because their onslaught is not broken yet, but this is do or die, you choose, because you have the means to make a difference!!!
 
Simplyfun said:
Not really, his following started due to making videos for NCIX , Canada is a heavy tech and internet consumer and he had a following before he wandered off to his own channel. Canadians get around and linked him on forums like these and it sort of evolved. I bet his name had little to do with it, it's not an uncommon name at all.

Having said that, I don't like him, it's like tech for kindergarten.
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I enjoy him. However, you gotta understand what his target audience is, and that's consumer level gaming. If you aren't in that crowd, you're not going to like him.
 
westrock2000 said:
Yes, but there are many other things that go into designing this, it's not just about performance or features. You have to worry about reliability, not just 90 days from now, but 5 years from now, 10 years from now. It's a very complex design so there are probably tons and tons of red tape and bureaucracy within the company. And then you have ALL the other facets of technology that Intel has their hands in. Sure, we all have a laundry list of these we'd like to see.....but it doesn't mean that what we want is practical.
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Sure, and by that metric, why on earth would they add in the complexity of kaby lake-x chips into x299 chipset? They make things harder on themselves with customers and motherboard companies. It ends up being a waste of time for everyone, that as Linus stated in the video, mobo makers are going to skip supporting some features or the chips themselves.
 
So far my upgrade boat is paddling toward Threadripper, 128gb ram, 2 500gb-1tb m.2 in raid 0, have to see TR4 reviews first though.
 
I agree with some things he says, but he comes off as being one a forum member or two here. I'm almost surprised he didn't mention taking the buckets to 11 or that AMD is utilizing portals or something.

I don't like the guy, but he's not really wrong here.

As an aside - what's his appeal? He's a mediocre speaker, nothing special, not bringing a lot to the table. He's not funny from the few videos I've watched, and when he tries to be it's very forced and scripted with poor acting. I just don't get the guy. Must be a Canadian thing. I'm going to blame Canada.
 
Ur_Mom said:
I agree with some things he says, but he comes off as being one a forum member or two here. I'm almost surprised he didn't mention taking the buckets to 11 or that AMD is utilizing portals or something.

I don't like the guy, but he's not really wrong here.

As an aside - what's his appeal? He's a mediocre speaker, nothing special, not bringing a lot to the table. He's not funny from the few videos I've watched, and when he tries to be it's very forced and scripted with poor acting. I just don't get the guy. Must be a Canadian thing. I'm going to blame Canada.
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This is the first time I've watched a video and truly the only reason I did is I did think it was going to be Linus Torvald. I think his "appeal" is the angst and raw emotion he brings to an otherwise dull, possibly boring, topic. Just my 2¢.
 
maybe adding kabylake-x to x299 was to ensure that in 1080p gaming the higher stock clocked kabylake quad core would reign supreme?
 
Snowdog said:
It's Kaby-X. WTF is that about? Kaby-X is useless and really screws up the platform.
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I have a feeling that the HEDT x299 will be the overclocking platform. They'll remove the K skus from the main stream platform, and you'll be stuck with the HEDT if you want to overclock. But they're trying to throw too much into the single chipset.
 
Chuklr said:
This is the first time I've watched a video and truly the only reason I did is I did think it was going to be Linus Torvald. I think his "appeal" is the angst and raw emotion he brings to an otherwise dull, possibly boring, topic. Just my 2¢.
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Ah... My late teenage years and grunge music (which is still awesome, but some of the topics were pretty angsty and messed up).

I can see the different angle on a more 'boring' subject (I love it and don't find it boring... unless it's ITIL or Project Management, fuck that shit... which, I found a couple ITIL videos and the one with a more upbeat presenter makes it a lot better, so I can see your point).
 
KazeoHin said:
Dude: Intel is roping off NVM-express RAID as an extra charge with X299. Essentially the feature is DLC for your mainboard.

This is one of those situations where knowledge of the OP and subject is paramount.
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I don't watch/listen to Linus for tech news updates and I haven't read this anywhere yet, although I could have glossed over it during the reveal. Anyways Intel is rumored to be charging for their VROC driver, nothing was mentioned that they would lock down normal raid modes that don't sit in the VROC domain. The only one whose reported on this in a more coherent way was TR and it looks like Raid 0 is free.

I'll reserve judgement to see if this is worth the price or not.
 
Its called Intel x299 the hot mess ripoff edition.
Last looked at intel cpus years ago i was already surprised at the feature cutting. They will do this no problem... AMD simply physically can't displace them.. plus people are stupid so there.
 
I think Linus is blowing things a little out of proportion. How about we wait on official review and benchmarks. The 7820X looks to be the sweet spot as far as price/performance, and honestly how is any of this a bad situation? I for one am really pleased to have more than one viable option for my next build.
 
He's spot on.

I got an email from NewEgg this morning $1600 for MB + 10 Core/20 Thread i9 Parts. I laughed and closed the window.

Good luck with that Intel.
 
trentchau said:
Uhm what about every other innovation like new ports. Etc. Are those just unremarkable throwaway's and speed is the only thing that matters?
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You mean USB-C....it's a nice little improvement, but has little relevance for now. There are no applications needed for USB-C that can't be handled by other ports currently in existence. That might change in the future with high data rates for monitors, or external NVMe drives. But for now, it's not needed.

The fact that Intel intentionally hampered QuickSync, NVMe, and castrated the RAID without expensive add ons is just a means to protect their margins on where their real bread and butter is: Servers. It's like intel went from toking us in the tail, to slapping us in the face with it.

Hey I got news for you Intel (if your read this) No one is buying your !@#$@# in the consumer space any more because you are NOT delivering VALUE.

I haven't upgraded in 4 years for one simple reason: If you can't double my performance, I'm not interested. I'm happily going along at 4.4Ghz on my ivy bridge. I'm not paying $1000 to get maybe 20% improvement overall. And I have a pretty decent disposable income.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
You mean USB-C....it's a nice little improvement, but has little relevance for now. There are no applications needed for USB-C that can't be handled by other ports currently in existence. That might change in the future with high data rates for monitors, or external NVMe drives. But for now, it's not needed.

The fact that Intel intentionally hampered QuickSync, NVMe, and castrated the RAID without expensive add ons is just a means to protect their margins on where their real bread and butter is: Servers. It's like intel went from toking us in the tail, to slapping us in the face with it.

Hey I got news for you Intel (if your read this) No one is buying your !@#$@# in the consumer space any more because you are NOT delivering VALUE.

I haven't upgraded in 4 years for one simple reason: If you can't double my performance, I'm not interested. I'm happily going along at 4.4Ghz on my ivy bridge. I'm not paying $1000 to get maybe 20% improvement overall. And I have a pretty decent disposable income.
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"I've kept my machine that's been able to hold its own now for four years cause it's maker offers me no value"

That whole idea in what you wrote just bothers be cause value isn't every new product that comes out. Value is also from the fact that you spent this much money on something and how long you can use it.

Intel is damned if you do and damned if you don't imho. Hell nVidia releases a pretty new product every year to 18*months in the titan and people complain about not getting value in their old titan. These are probably the same people complaining that since their 3770k is still working 5 years later they are also not getting value.
 
trentchau said:
"I've kept my machine that's been able to hold its own now for four years cause it's maker offers me no value"

That whole idea in what you wrote just bothers be cause value isn't every new product that comes out. Value is also from the fact that you spent this much money on something and how long you can use it.

Intel is damned if you do and damned if you don't imho. Hell nVidia releases a pretty new product every year to 18*months in the titan and people complain about not getting value in their old titan. These are probably the same people complaining that since their 3770k is still working 5 years later they are also not getting value.
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Oh I got great value out of my 3770K. But there is no point in me upgrading in something that offers similar performance. At least with AMD and NVIDIA they are delivering measurable and substantial performance increases. I can't say the same for Intel. Hence my gripe.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
Oh I got great value out of my 3770K. But there is no point in me upgrading in something that offers similar performance. At least with AMD and NVIDIA they are delivering measurable and substantial performance increases. I can't say the same for Intel. Hence my gripe.
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That's the irony of it all. Even now with those measureable increases in performance AMD mostly caught up with intel, not superceded them. Which leads now into people complaining about cost. Intel is so much more expensive over AMD....but with an incredible used market on the intel front you can buy for pennies on the dollar the same exact measureable increase gained from AMD for the same cost if you are comfortable with a used market. This used market is created by intel releasing upgrades yearly creating a nice saturation in the market that helps the end user.

I would understand more if AMD's ryzen completely trounced INTEL like 2x the performance in every factor, but it only equals or supercedes some of the chips. It is an incredible value currently, but it also took over half a decade to come out for other amd users to get their brand upgrade. If anything I would say the main company who fucked their fanbase over has been AMD. They release a great product in Ryzen and proceed to rebadge the 470-480 line immediately afterwards and now you can't even buy it for a reasonable price.

Anyways this is more a discussion and not an arguement. We each have a different perspective on what value is and what's important. Thanks for your input.
 
trentchau said:
That's the irony of it all. Even now with those measureable increases in performance AMD mostly caught up with intel, not superceded them. Which leads now into people complaining about cost. Intel is so much more expensive over AMD....but with an incredible used market on the intel front you can buy for pennies on the dollar the same exact measureable increase gained from AMD for the same cost if you are comfortable with a used market. This used market is created by intel releasing upgrades yearly creating a nice saturation in the market that helps the end user.

I would understand more if AMD's ryzen completely trounced INTEL like 2x the performance in every factor, but it only equals or supercedes some of the chips. It is an incredible value currently, but it also took over half a decade to come out for other amd users to get their brand upgrade. If anything I would say the main company who fucked their fanbase over has been AMD. They release a great product in Ryzen and proceed to rebadge the 470-480 line immediately afterwards and now you can't even buy it for a reasonable price.

Anyways this is more a discussion and not an arguement. We each have a different perspective on what value is and what's important. Thanks for your input.
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That's apples and oranges comparison. I was referring to video cards not Ryzen. And compared to Intel on NEW chips, AMD is offering incredible value that can't be matched. And when used RYZEN/Threadrippers show up on ebay, they will undermine intel as well there.

So again, where is the value?
 
Qchan said:
I enjoy him. However, you gotta understand what his target audience is, and that's consumer level gaming. If you aren't in that crowd, you're not going to like him.
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I'm in that demographic and I can't stand Linus. I don't even see LTT as entertainment. Never understood why he's so popular. I have the same opinion of JayZTwoCents, or whatever the fuck he calls himself.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
That's apples and oranges comparison. I was referring to video cards not Ryzen. And compared to Intel on NEW chips, AMD is offering incredible value that can't be matched. And when used RYZEN/Threadrippers show up on ebay, they will undermine intel as well there.

So again, where is the value?
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That we will have to wait to see, but using something like Steam survey as an example AMD has a bit to catch up. From April to may (a month after ryzen came out) the amount of AMD chips in use in steam actually went down, despite Ryzen being pushed as a gaming chip also. Amd is currently only 19% used in the gaming market compared to intel who is beating them 4 to 1. That right there tells me that there's a little bit of a value when 4 out of 5 people chose a certain product over another. And for us HEDT people we are a super small sliver of the actual practical market. Making a blanket statement that intel offers no value means their WHOLE product line. On every front right now starting from the insanely nice g4560 up to the 6950x you have a product that provides value to Most (not all) of it's user base. It's undeniable that the price of the ryzen chip is nice, and from what I've seen the performance is great. But even if I was an AMD fan I couldn't make a blanket statement that Intel provides no current value to their consumers.

When it comes to a matter of numbers, intel has a lot more chips out there than amd, and because of that the cost will go down. Its hard to say who or what will undermine who.

Hell it could be that AMD shot themselves in the foot and are charging way to little for ryzen in comparison to their R&D, and despite us as consumers feeling like it's a win theres a chance there will be no alternatives in about 3 years.

BTW I have no idea why you said apples to oranges comparison because both video cards and processors were seperated when we discussed it, and it was discussed...they weren't put int he same batch.
 
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Armenius said:
I'm in that demographic and I can't stand Linus. I don't even see LTT as entertainment. Never understood why he's so popular. I have the same opinion of JayZTwoCents, or whatever the fuck he calls himself.
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It took me months to not care for linus voice, and thank god that luke comes on once in a while. I consider linus a more annoying Leo Laporte (remember that guy) and I see his value. It is annoying though when the guys like "CHECK OUT MY MY MY MY NEW $8000 TV".
 
trentchau said:
That we will have to wait to see, but using something like Steam survey as an example AMD has a bit to catch up. From April to may (a month after ryzen came out) the amount of AMD chips in use in steam actually went down, despite Ryzen being pushed as a gaming chip also. Amd is currently only 19% used in the gaming market compared to intel who is beating them 4 to 1. That right there tells me that there's a little bit of a value when 4 out of 5 people chose a certain product over another. And for us HEDT people we are a super small sliver of the actual practical market. Making a blanket statement that intel offers no value means their WHOLE product line. On every front right now starting from the insanely nice g4560 up to the 6950x you have a product that provides value to Most (not all) of it's user base. It's undeniable that the price of the ryzen chip is nice, and from what I've seen the performance is great. But even if I was an AMD fan I couldn't make a blanket statement that Intel provides no current value to their consumers.

When it comes to a matter of numbers, intel has a lot more chips out there than amd, and because of that the cost will go down. Its hard to say who or what will undermine who.

Hell it could be that AMD shot themselves in the foot and are charging way to little for ryzen in comparison to their R&D, and despite us as consumers feeling like it's a win theres a chance there will be no alternatives in about 3 years.

BTW I have no idea why you said apples to oranges comparison because both video cards and processors were seperated when we discussed it, and it was discussed...they weren't put int he same batch.
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It's way too early in the market to determine if AMD's Ryzen will make a meaningful impact on gaming (steam surveys can't be realizes yet). And while it does make an overall suitable gaming chip (not the best), it makes an even better all around chip.

And you are right. Ryzen may never make significant inroads just because they are a tad slower than intel @ high end gaming. But it's hard to say, and way too early. But if you asked me to buy a new system today that was more well rounded I would grab a Ryzen chip with a 1080ti and not think twice about it. It's because I rip (handbrake) movies from my DVD collection and stream them via PLEX. I also do some pretty damn serious compiles of workspaces under visual studio (Some take an hour).

We all know Intels bread n butter these days is in servers. I will freely admit that. So the only people spending serious money are corporations. The home market has fizzled due to lack of advancement. Well, Intel is about about to get trounced on by these new cheaper platforms from AMD unless Intel acts accordingly. All Intel is doing is giving us a weaker version of XEON for a slight price reduction. There is hardly any value there. $1600 for a 10 core + motherboard that is in many ways weaker than an i7. I don't f'n think so.

And if AMD can deliver an equivalent experience for less money in the server market, then I would say they have a couple aces in their hand that could change the tide for everyone involved from the top down.

And intel will keep giving the consumers the middle finger because they have margins to protect, so their stock price stays the same. There is no secret to this. Intel will only react when they start seeing a loss in market share. And this is their strategy as foolish as it may be.
 
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Ranulfo said:
Wait... wait... LTT had IT cred? Have you seen his videos on "whole room water cooling"? Much of their deal for the past year or so seems to be comedy over anything else. At least they're honest in their stupidity at times.
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Yeah, thats my secondary example of how inept they are. I would have AT LEAST talked to someone familiar with thermo-dynamics first. Hell last night i was researching simple line voltage drop for a raspberry pi powered over a 100 feet of wire. I probably spent 45 minutes calculating the various wire sizes and such.
 
trentchau said:
It took me months to not care for linus voice, and thank god that luke comes on once in a while. I consider linus a more annoying Leo Laporte (remember that guy) and I see his value. It is annoying though when the guys like "CHECK OUT MY MY MY MY NEW $8000 TV".
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Leo LaPorte was fun to watch! Especially when he'd try to demonstrate something and it'd blow up! :D
 
Spire3660 said:
Yeah, thats my secondary example of how inept they are. I would have AT LEAST talked to someone familiar with thermo-dynamics first. Hell last night i was researching simple line voltage drop for a raspberry pi powered over a 100 feet of wire. I probably spent 45 minutes calculating the various wire sizes and such.
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You do know they have voltage drop calculators online for this, that would be like 30 seconds work.
 
Shmee said:
The way I thought it worked is that all chips had to had to work on all boards. Not that all features of all the chips had to work on all boards. So sure all boards will have to have some sort of dual / quad RAM setup, but other things they can leave off provide the chip "works".
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So how do you have all the chips work on all the boards 100%, if the board does not support 100% of the features of the chips? The board would have to support all the features of all the chips out of the box in order for that to be true, or else having the chip is pointless. What is the point of buying the board if it can't support the processor you want in full?
 
Armenius said:
I'm in that demographic and I can't stand Linus. I don't even see LTT as entertainment. Never understood why he's so popular. I have the same opinion of JayZTwoCents, or whatever the fuck he calls himself.
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What is JayzTwoCents opinion? I'm subscribed to him on YouTube, but I've never really heard of his opinions on Linus.
 
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