Libretto W100 vs iPad in pictures

[phide]

No device introduced this year including the iPad has taken such a HUGE risk in doing something that’s just out there. I applaud Toshiba for having some guts to try something that truly is unique.

So the iPad is not unique? Regardless of how you feel about it, I have a hard time imagining how someone could accuse it of being ordinary.

 

[heatlesssun]

The iPad is nice and no doubt a great achievement in the slate computer space but it's still just a slate and those have been around for a long time. A laptop with no physical keyboard is far more unique, regardless of how you feel about the W100.

 

[Bahamut]

So the iPad is not unique? Regardless of how you feel about it, I have a hard time imagining how someone could accuse it of being ordinary.

It's a quadruple size iPod touch, hardly unique, and no I'm not being facetious - the only thing it offers over the iPod touch aside from being a bit faster and having 3G is... well, it's about 4x larger.

Hardly unique at all...

 

[phide]

The iPad is nice and no doubt a great achievement in the slate computer space but it's still just a slate and those have been around for a long time. A laptop with no physical keyboard is far more unique, regardless of how you feel about the W100.

I didn't ask you if you thought the W100 is more unique, I asked if you thought the iPad is unique. And, for what it's worth, I never said I thought the W100 was not unique. It is, quite obviously, unique.

Would you care to name another device that is largely similar not just in terms of form factor but also with respect to the software it runs and the user experience it provides? (And not a future product, but a product that existed by the time the iPad launched) There may have been other devices that have closely resembled its form factor, but what about the user experience they've provided compared to what the iPad provides?

It's a quadruple size iPod touch, hardly unique, and no I'm not being facetious - the only thing it offers over the iPod touch aside from being a bit faster and having 3G is... well, it's about 4x larger.

Like I've said before, the size changes the experience considerably. It doesn't just tweak the equation, it turns the equation upside down. Yeah, there are major similarities to the iPod touch in terms of what it is — it's effectively just a big iPod — but not in terms of the user experience. That is, by no real stretch of the term, dramatically different, but not necessarily easy to define. Considering the iPad is designed specifically to offer a different type of user experience in its form factor, it's pretty foolish not to take that into account when talking about it, and boiling down to "it's a big iPod touch" really indicates a lack any meaningful (and I don't mean five minutes) hands-on experience with the iPad itself.

The first thing I said about the iPad when I saw the announcement was that it had to be some kind of joke. Look back the iPad announcement thread in FPN and you'll see exactly what I said. I didn't think it could possibly offer any value to anyone. Eventually, I opened to up the idea a little bit more, but not enough to run out and buy one: $500 is no small chunk of change. After about a week of using it, though, it became impossibly clear what it is, what it's meant to be and how it could fit into my day-to-day. I still don't think it's magical or revolutionary, but unique, yeah. Absolutely. You really can't get a good feel of it until you can actually sit down with it and work out what its purpose is. To say that it offers nothing beyond the iPod indicates a pretty blatant level of narrowmindedness (or just genuine lack of experience), to put it lightly.

 

[Aurelius]

Those who say the iPad is just a big iPod should also be prepared to call a notebook just a big netbook.

After all, it's the same core idea: take a smaller device, give it a bigger screen and increase the performance. But of course, as we all know, it's that very difference that matters. There are certain kinds of apps you can run on an iPad that you can't on an iPod, just as you would expect to do more on a 15-inch Core i5 notebook over a 10-inch Atom netbook.

As for the Libretto W100: given that it's supposed to get about two hours on a battery charge and will only rver have limited app support, there's a good reason why it's a limited edition. A cool idea doesn't necessarily translate to a sustainable production run. It's an experiment, and it probably won't be the future of computing for some time. Neither is an iPad, but it also doesn't start at $1,100.

(Just to prove I practice what I preach, this was written on an iPad)

 

[Bahamut]

You really can't get a good feel of it until you can actually sit down with it and work out what its purpose is. To say that it offers nothing beyond the iPod indicates a pretty blatant level of narrowmindedness (or just genuine lack of experience), to put it lightly.

If I had never used a tablet device I might tend to agree with this but, since I've been using such devices for well over a decade in a variety of forms, that's where my "Hardly unique..." comes from - it's nothing new, even though it's in the right form-factor and has somewhat decent battery life for it's given purpose. I never said it wasn't a decent device, just that it's not all it's hyped up to be as most everyone has.

And yes I've spent time with one but, since I have so much background using slate/tablet devices for so long it's what I've said since day one (and you'd probably agree with): the iPad is not a revolutionary device, and you already said it's not "magical" either which it isn't. It's simply evolutionary, just as I keep telling people that someday keyboards with physical buttons and mice to move cursors simply won't be the primary forms of input anymore.

All this stuff is evolutionary - I haven't seen anything truly revolutionary in the computer industry (or even consumer electronics) in decades...

 

[heatlesssun]

I didn't ask you if you thought the W100 is more unique, I asked if you thought the iPad is unique. And, for what it's worth, I never said I thought the W100 was not unique. It is, quite obviously, unique.

Would you care to name another device that is largely similar not just in terms of form factor but also with respect to the software it runs and the user experience it provides? (And not a future product, but a product that existed by the time the iPad launched) There may have been other devices that have closely resembled its form factor, but what about the user experience they've provided compared to what the iPad provides?

Would you care to name another device that is largely similar not just in terms of form factor but also with respect to the software it runs and the user experience it provides? (And not a future product, but a product that existed by the time the iPad launched) There may have been other devices that have closely resembled its form factor, but what about the user experience they've provided compared to what the iPad provides?

I was only talking about the form factor. yes the iPad has some slick software but at the same time slates is slates. If we’re talking about games the iPad will kick the shit out a W100 overall but if we’re talking about web surfing, email, eBooks, movies, music, and note taking honestly the experience isn’t necessarily all that different. Yes the Apple faithful might disagree but at the heart of all the experiences I’ve mentioned is EXACTLY the same content. And this would apply to Android or whatever slates as well. So the experience might be a little different between the devices but the heart of that experience, the content is IDENTICAL. Smooth pinch scrolling and slow web page loading aside, the web page or the movie isn’t going to be any different. Unless that web page contains Flash. And I’m not trying to make any comparisons between the devices, merely that for a lot of things the value of the experience is THE SAME, regardless of other considerations.

Like I've said before, the size changes the experience considerably.

Couldn’t agree more, indeed long before the iPad or iPhone Toshiba was creating devices with the Libretto brand approaching this problem in reverse, miniaturization. Whether you like it or not a 1.5lbs laptop the size of an iPad is a different beast than a conventional laptop.

I still don't think it's magical or revolutionary, but unique, yeah. Absolutely. You really can't get a good feel of it until you can actually sit down with it and work out what its purpose is. To say that it offers nothing beyond the iPod indicates a pretty blatant level of narrowmindedness (or just genuine lack of experience), to put it lightly.

Yes this thread is full of narrow mindedness, most coming from the Apple faithful, not you this time however. But I agree, you have to look at things before coming to conclusions. I’ve spent close to ten hours on an iPad and I think I get it overall, not saying I’m an authority but yes it’s a great entertainment device. Very mediocre at a lot of traditional computing tasks however. It’s a fun and slick device overall and unique in that regard.

 

[CrazyCuz2k]

The last revolutionary device that came out was the 3D accelerator.... the original Voodoo and Nvidia Riva 128. Proud owner of both .. and before that the mouse. Other than that it's been evolutionary steps in computing. I will caveat that the first touch based computing device will probably be considered revolutionary as that's where computing is headed. The iPad though not revolutionary since it isn't the first touch based tablet, did bring touch based computing to the masses. Something noteworthy unto itself. Just as RIM's blackberry brought smartphones to the masses, iPhone be damned

 

[heatlesssun]

As for the Libretto W100: given that it's supposed to get about two hours on a battery charge and will only rver have limited app support, there's a good reason why it's a limited edition. A cool idea doesn't necessarily translate to a sustainable production run. It's an experiment, and it probably won't be the future of computing for some time. Neither is an iPad, but it also doesn't start at $1,100.

(Just to prove I practice what I preach, this was written on an iPad)

Up to 4 hours on the big battery and limited app support? Like Office, Photoshop, Chrome, Firefox you name it there's an app for that app support of Windows 7?

 

[BillNutz]

Up to 4 hours on the big battery and limited app support? Like Office, Photoshop, Chrome, Firefox you name it there's an app for that app support of Windows 7?

Thank you for your personal review of this product, I didn't know I wanted a clamshell tablet until I saw this.

A couple of questions for you, have you tried Remote Desktop Connection on this thing? How's the virtual keyboard and touch functionalities?
Is the RAM upgradeable? If so, what's the max?

I view this device as the Blackberry of tablets, it's more business oriented.
We live in a Windows world and need a Windows device. The Androids and iPads of the worlds can't change that.

 

[heatlesssun]

Thanks for your remarks and your assessment of this device is dead on, the W100 is essentially a miniature business class laptop that just so happens to be all touch based.

My dead level honest opinion is that this keyboard setup is about the best touch screen keyboard I've ever used. If you're a touch typist you're not going to fall in love with it but it is actually productive and it's the first touch screen keyboard that I don't only not hate, I actually kind of like. I think most can do real productive work with it for extended periods of time.

The mouse is good but not at the same level as the keyboard. It'll get the job done on the go for things that can use a mouse, and there a few things that can on this size screen but at a desk I'm using a Bluetooth mouse, in fact I'm at work typing this on the virtual keyboard and using a Bluetooth mouse and it's not a half bad setup.

The machine unfortunately is sealed, the only thing that can be changed is the battery. The 62GB drive is enough to load a good number of apps but no room for data but you do have the micro SD slot and USB port for at least a little expansion.

And Remote Desktop works fine, no different than any other Windows machine just of course dealing with screen resolution differences between this device and my others.

Overall this thing is just because it's so portable and because 4G in my area is so good, it's the best portable web browsing device I've ever used because of it's size and because of 4G speeds. It would of course be nice if the battery life were better but 3 to 4 hours run time for a business device isn't that bad and for on the go if I know I'm going to want it to run longer than that I have the spare battery and of course and can keep it charged in the car.

 

[heatlesssun]

After ten days of using the W100 I have to say that I’m overall very impressed. A basic business class laptop in terms of performance essentially the size and weight of an iPad. If you had asked me three months ago I would say that it wasn’t feasible especially in a device running Windows 7 with only three physical buttons, that’s got to be some kind of record for a laptop if you count keys as buttons. The Libretto brand has historically crammed Windows into tiny form factors with good results and this machine is no different. It’s a LOT more useful than I thought it would be and while it does have weak battery life and the top screen does run on the warm side the pluses simply outweigh the minuses.

The coolest thing about this device is its prowess as a mobile web browser, when connected to 4G in a good area it’s just awesome. Desktop/laptop web browsing speed, choice and features literally in the palm of one’s hand at most people’s cable modem connection rates. Silky smooth 720P YouTube videos from the standard site without WiFi, tethering or a dongle, it bought a smile to my face.

Top 10 Cons and Pros of the Libretto W100:

Cons:
1. Battery life realistically is 3 hours on the large and 1.5 hours on the small battery without power optimizations. I’ve heard from another W100 user, actually a W105 owner, the American version without the WiMax radio that he was able to get 4.5 hours in standard balanced mode.
2. Top of unit gets warm, does not burn but it’s simply much warmer than the room temperature bottom part.
3. Portrait mode is uncomfortable because of the proceeding issue.
4. The fan can generate a good bit of noise especially in quiet environments which might annoy some.
5. The dual screens do complicate gaming; you usually have to turn off one of the screens for games that run full screen and thus things can be a little unbalanced with a dark screen. Plants vs. Zombies is cool on this device however!
6. Video playback at 1080P is subpar I believe as it seems to perform worse than a single core Atom based netbook with Intel 945 graphics, I think there’s a driver issue going on here and hope that this con can be fixed with a driver update.
7. The internal speaker is practically useless because of VERY WEAK volume.
8. Much of the Toshiba add on software is sluggish especially when loading.
9. I’ve tried three different capacitive styli and none works well enough to be useful with the W100, still looking. Also the built in Windows Tablet Input Panel doesn’t play nice with dual monitors.
10. It runs Windows 7.

Pros
1. Incredibly lightweight and compact design for what is essentially a business class laptop.
2. FANTASTIC virtual keyboard and mouse setup, it’s simply a top notch implementation and the dual screen design pays off for multitasking.
3. Because of item #2 and because this device runs desktop Windows 7 it’s a hell of a content
creation device for its size.
4. Solid business app level performance especially since it’s using an SSD and a U5400, a good bit faster than the most Atom based Windows 7 slates that are starting pop up.
5. Resumes from sleep and hibernation very quickly which makes opening and closing the unit practical and helps conserve battery.
6. Very sharp and bright displays. While they aren’t quite as bright as the iPad’s this unit does have twice the pixel density of an iPad, very good for document viewing and editing.
7. This thing is VERY cool web browsing device. Firefox 4 now supports multi-touch in Windows 7 and works reasonably well in the Beta. Pinch zooming has improved in FF 4 and the IE9 tech preview but nothing on the level of an iPad but it will be interesting to see how much Direct2D rendering will help as that gets rolled into FF 4 and IE 9. It’s cool to be able to run any browser you want with all of the cool things that we like about desktop browsers at desktop speeds.
8. Integrated 4G. I’ve in an area that has solid 4G support and while it’s not great at my house in most spots in town it’s truly great. Combined with the fact that this is a mini-laptop that runs full desktop browsers at desktop speeds you really have the ultimate 1.5lbs web browser and mobile network device
9. User replaceable battery. While the battery life isn’t stellar with both batteries that come with the Japanese version I can get about 5 hours of solid run time without power optimizations in just over 2lbs of weight, that’s actually not bad for a device of this performance level.
10. It runs Windows 7. This was in the con section to acknowledge that Windows 7 desktop isn’t optimized for touch and that on these VERY HIGH DPI and small screens it can be a little tricky. However it isn’t a problem on the W100, just pop up the track pad in situations where increased precision is necessary. Bottom line is that Windows does things especially from a business perspective that no other platform provide at this time, not in a device this size, with seamless integration with existing Windows computers and apps being a biggie. HomeGroups with the W100 is extremely powerful. I can work on documents on the W100 and without doing ANYTHING no synching or cloud or funky conversions or server apps necessary and move over to my tm2 or sig rig and pick up where left off. It just works.

With a digital pen this thing would have essentially been Courier and I think the W100 does a LOT of explaining as to why Microsoft didn’t proceed with the project. The W100 is about as powerful a device that can be put into this form factor. I don’t know what targeted platform for the Courier was ARM or x86 but I do know that at least in Windows 7, the handwriting recognition engine eats up a LOT of CPU power. I just don’t see how Courier would have been able to drive advanced HR without hardware at least on the level of the U5400. Maybe it could have run on ARM, I haven’t a clue but if it were x86 the W100 clearly shows the issues with the heat, battery life and price.

I can almost guarantee that we’ve not seen the last of this form factor, indeed it looks like the W100 is selling pretty well and I’ve heard rumors that Toshiba is making another batch for the US with 3G radios, just unsubstantiated rumors, I honestly haven’t a clue. It’s going to show up in an Android or Chrome device if those things do well in time. One last note, I’ve talked to 6 other W100 owners and they all love this thing. Maybe it’s the price of the puppy not letting us feel otherwise but I can honestly say that this is more useful to me than a pure slate tablet, at least one with no pen. I REALLY like this form factor and will by other products in the future that use it.

 

[Bahamut]

Damn, a post that rivals most of the ones I make, good job.

OK, WE GET IT, YOU LOVE THE DAMNED THING!!!

 

[heatlesssun]

I actually spent the last week putting that post together and waiting to hear back from other folks as they got their units. What's striking me as interesting is that everyone I've talked seems to very much like this device and for very much the reasons I do.

What's most interesting is that this really was a shot in the dark by Toshiba, I mean they said as much calling it concept device. It wasn't on anyone's radar until two months ago and it seems to be a hit.

Really if this device hadn't been well received I think it would have been VERY bad news for Windows slates after what has happened with HP Slate attempt.

The W100 is simply proving my point that's a LOT of room for a lot of different devices at a lot of different price points and a lot of different capabilities.

All slate makers should probably be encouraged by the W100. There's simply room for other things than iPads in this market, a lot more.

 

[Bahamut]

Right, so gimme an iPad gutted and running off an Nvidia Tegra running Windows Mobile 7 (I can't bring myself to call it Phone anymore) and a slightly better LCD panel in it and we're on...

Just messin' with you, as usual. I'll keep hoping someone out there "does it right" by what I'm hoping to find. Nothing does so far, not the ExoPC, not even that Asus EeePad I was hoping for either, sadly.

Dammit I hate it when Apple beats people to the punch, even when the capabilities have been there for years... crap.

 

[heatlesssun]

Sounds like you want a phone OS device, there's tons of Androids to choose from and a few Windows 7 CE devices on the way. By this time next there should be something that you want out there.

 

[Bahamut]

No, I already have a cell phone, that's the problem nowadays - everything has a damned phone in it, which I could care less about. The downside is that it's nearly impossible to find something that doesn't nowadays, especially with the prevalence of 3G and now 4G moving in as well - I don't need another cell phone. Somebody needs to just sell data plans for devices without attaching a cell phone contract (for making voice calls, etc) - it's entirely doable but I've yet to see anyone do it except Apple and AT&T for the iPad but then they fucked everyone over by altering it and getting rid of the originally announced unlimited plan.

Bait and switch, if you ask me...

My perfect slate remains in my imagination where it'll stay forever it seems.

 

[heatlesssun]

Well that's how I'm doing my Sprint deal. Since my W100 had a WiMax radio in it I got my "contract' for two years with no early termination fee since Sprint didn't sell me any hardware. So a contract that I can walk away from with no fees isn't a problem from my perspective.

Now I need to figure how to turn this thing into a hot spot. The WiMax and WiFi radios can't be on simultaneously so I got a USB dongle but Connectify doesn't seem to like it. Ad hoc works ok but won't reestablish the Internet connection if it blinks out. Argggg!

 

[phide]

...they fucked everyone over by altering it and getting rid of the originally announced unlimited plan[/i].

Those who have already been on the unlimited plan have been grandfathered in on it. Unless you change plans, you keep the unlimited plan.

 

[Bahamut]

Those who have already been on the unlimited plan have been grandfathered in on it. Unless you change plans, you keep the unlimited plan.

Yah, that was the bait... letting everyone think "Hey, the iPad will have this cool unlimited plan for about $30 a month, I'll get one later this year" not realizing that Apple and AT&T "changed the rules" after the game had already started. Yes, the early adopters did get in on the unlimited plan and were grandfathered in when the switch happened but I just met a few people last week that had planned to get an iPad for their kids going to school thinking they'd get that unlimited plan for 'em as a package deal.

They heard about the unlimited data plan when they saw Steve Jobs announced the iPad back in January and I had to break the bad news to 'em that the unlimited plan he was so happy to announce so long ago had been tanked by AT&T months past and was no longer available. Pissed 'em off pretty bad I must say...

 

[heatlesssun]

The 3Gs ain't fun anymore. I'll probably cancel my standalone Verizon 3G and just tether to my phone when I'm out a 4G area if needed. It's like night and day.

I just need to figure out how to get the W100 working as an access point.

 

[Serpico]

So you don’t like it, you think its crap and that’s totally cool, if this thing printed 100 dollar bills the only way you’d like it is if it had glowing half eaten piece of fruit on the back.

No, my opinion is actually based in clear headed logic, believe it or not.

The flaws of the W100 stem from the fact that it is based around two very small displays separated by bezels and a hinge. This means that it is impossible, impossible, to get a full size keyboard from the soft keyboard. The keys are already smaller than the iPad's when it is in portrait mode, and when the iPad is in landscape mode you get a, tada!, full size keyboard. The physical configuration of the W100 also limits the size of the workspace when working on documents due to the fact that it is, again, two small screens.

It is an oversized Nintendo DS running Windows 7, which means two hour battery life (four with the bigger battery) and an OS running applications that are not 1000% tailored to that specific form factor. These are all the reasons I criticize the device. Sure, its "cool" that they did it, but practically speaking a notebook, netbook (never thought I'd say that), or tablet which has an OS and applications that are targeted and purpose-built specifically to the hardware such as the iPad, makes much more sense to me.

The W100 is a novelty, but that's fine, novelties are fun. For productivity I'd rather use a real notebook. And there is a weird opinion that a "content consumption" device isn't useful for productivity. On Shacknews there is a medical student who is using his iPad for reference and studies. My mother is a doctor and she and several other doctors use iPads at work now. I use my iPhone apps more for my own work, but there's a color correction app I've used on the iPad a few times, and its pretty good. Other than that, I email and so research on it all the time. If I'm going to hammer out something serious then I'll get on my desktop. I don't see how something so limited as a W100 can be taken seriously for productivity as I can barely get my head around the idea of using a netbook for such a thing.

That's all!

 

[CrazyCuz2k]

Yah, that was the bait... letting everyone think "Hey, the iPad will have this cool unlimited plan for about $30 a month, I'll get one later this year" not realizing that Apple and AT&T "changed the rules" after the game had already started. Yes, the early adopters did get in on the unlimited plan and were grandfathered in when the switch happened but I just met a few people last week that had planned to get an iPad for their kids going to school thinking they'd get that unlimited plan for 'em as a package deal.

They heard about the unlimited data plan when they saw Steve Jobs announced the iPad back in January and I had to break the bad news to 'em that the unlimited plan he was so happy to announce so long ago had been tanked by AT&T months past and was no longer available. Pissed 'em off pretty bad I must say...

That's why I have at the wifi only iPad and went with the clear spot. 25 a month 4g and no contract oh and it's unlimited. Works with all advices and some matchbooks. You can hack it to allow your androids and laptops as well. Caveat you gotta have 4g in your city. I'm one of the lucky few. I get 3 Mbps down and 1 up. Not so bad on the go

 

[heatlesssun]

No, my opinion is actually based in clear headed logic, believe it or not.

The flaws of the W100 stem from the fact that it is based around two very small displays separated by bezels and a hinge. This means that it is impossible, impossible, to get a full size keyboard from the soft keyboard. The keys are already smaller than the iPad's when it is in portrait mode, and when the iPad is in landscape mode you get a, tada!, full size keyboard. The physical configuration of the W100 also limits the size of the workspace when working on documents due to the fact that it is, again, two small screens.

It is an oversized Nintendo DS running Windows 7, which means two hour battery life (four with the bigger battery) and an OS running applications that are not 1000% tailored to that specific form factor. These are all the reasons I criticize the device. Sure, its "cool" that they did it, but practically speaking a notebook, netbook (never thought I'd say that), or tablet which has an OS and applications that are targeted and purpose-built specifically to the hardware such as the iPad, makes much more sense to me.

The W100 is a novelty, but that's fine, novelties are fun. For productivity I'd rather use a real notebook. And there is a weird opinion that a "content consumption" device isn't useful for productivity. On Shacknews there is a medical student who is using his iPad for reference and studies. My mother is a doctor and she and several other doctors use iPads at work now. I use my iPhone apps more for my own work, but there's a color correction app I've used on the iPad a few times, and its pretty good. Other than that, I email and so research on it all the time. If I'm going to hammer out something serious then I'll get on my desktop. I don't see how something so limited as a W100 can be taken seriously for productivity as I can barely get my head around the idea of using a netbook for such a thing.

That's all!

You've criticized the device on its screens, which are very good, not as bright as the iPad's but much sharper and now you're criticizing the device for its keyboard and not one person that has used it has anything to say but good things about it. I bet I can bang out text as fast ot faster on a W100 than most can on an iPad, hell it's only got six virtual keyboard layouts. And sure the battery life is weak, everyone's criticized it for that, but even then it's not that much different from an entry level laptop.

So no, most of your criticisms are not logical since you have no experience with the device and those that do are saying pretty much the opposite except on the battery life.

 

[heatlesssun]

And as for the W100 being "limited" I got a CSV from a coworker late last night, she needed me to create an Excel file, didn't work on her XP Office 2007 machine, almost 500,000 rows with 29 columns. Loaded into Excel in 38 seconds and I sorted on a column and that took about 10. On my Asus Eee PC 1000H netbook with a 160MB 5400RPM drive the same file loaded in 1:43 and took 20 seconds for the same sort.

No problem using Excel 2010 on the W100, if something is too small for touch, not a lot is that way in Office 2010 but the sort dialog is kind of small, it does have a mouse pad and as virtual as it is works pretty much like a real one.

And yeah, my tm2 is faster and my sig rig is a WHOLE lot faster but neither weigh the same as an iPad, at least with the 4 cell battery, 3 onces more with the 8 cell. With the Max radio in the W100 and the fact that it's a lot faster overall than most netbooks you're smoking crack to think that a W100 is limited compared to a typical netbook. When you take an app to dual screen mode, text based documents work very well in that mode, anything that breaks naturally isn't a problem with the hinge, you have twice the resoultion of a netbook and a sharper display than an iPad. And I'd love to see an iPad load an 80MB CSV file sort 500,000 rows and see how that works. Really, I'm curious if it would work and how well.

This is an entry level laptop that's compact and light weight and it was meant to do just this kind of thing well in those constraints. Why you think that this device can't do well the stuff it was DESIGNED to do never having touched it, no, not logical at all.

 

[heatlesssun]

Engadget did its review of the W100, actually the American version, the W105 yesterday and they slammed it hard, 3 out 10 stars and while Joanna Stern did make some valid points her lack of understanding of Windows 7 touch features is disturbing. At the 1:30 mark those of you that use Windows 7 on touch screen devices should get a kick: http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/08/toshiba-libretto-w105-review/#disqus_thread

Understand that this woman has reviewed a number of Tablet PCs, including the tm2 and yet she’s trying to scroll through the Programs list on touch screen device using the SCROLL BAR. OMFG. She has NO clue what she is doing and all the while complaining about the touch friendless of Windows 7.

After seeing this I simply can’t take her seriously anymore. This about the most incompetent thing I’ve seen in a while considering that Stern is supposed to be a Tablet PC expert.

 

[GreenMonkey]

Engadget did its review of the W100, actually the American version, the W105 yesterday and they slammed it hard, 3 out 10 stars and while Joanna Stern did make some valid points her lack of understanding of Windows 7 touch features is disturbing. At the 1:30 mark those of you that use Windows 7 on touch screen devices should get a kick: http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/08/toshiba-libretto-w105-review/#disqus_thread

Understand that this woman has reviewed a number of Tablet PCs, including the tm2 and yet she’s trying to scroll through the Programs list on touch screen device using the SCROLL BAR. OMFG. She has NO clue what she is doing and all the while complaining about the touch friendless of Windows 7.

After seeing this I simply can’t take her seriously anymore. This about the most incompetent thing I’ve seen in a while considering that Stern is supposed to be a Tablet PC expert.

LOL

You think she'd have noticed that you can finger scroll it just like anything else. Has she not ever used an ipod touch?

 

[Aurelius]

There's no doubt that you want to make sure you take advantage of every core touch feature before you judge that side of it.

That said, the W105 is definitely a niche device, and as it's built it's unlikely to go very far. To me, size is part of it. Seven inches works well for a pure slate, since you can thumb type if the keyboard is well designed (I'm looking forward to both the 7-inch iPad, if real, and the Samsung Galaxy Tab). But it falls flat in a dual-screen notebook for most, since you end up with a small amount of space and no really comfortable way to thumb type. At least, not how I'd like to do it.

 

[heatlesssun]

No comfortable way to thumb type?

What's better than this for thumb typing? Honestly NOTHING, not even an iPad touches this virtual keyboard right now. I've in three weeks typed more on this virtual keyboard than I have in the almost TWO YEARS of having other Windows 7 touch screen systems couting the beta.

 

[Sly]

Reminds me of the surface joystick demo. It does make sense. If you have a touch device, make up for the lack of tactile feedback with the ability to change the layout to fit your hand.

Is that a standard Win7 feature?

 

[heatlesssun]

The same thing crossed my mind about the Surface demo. Indeed why not Surface laptops? A W100 the size of a conventional laptop would be amazing. If Microsoft doesn't push to get something like this working in Windows 8 they will have missed a great opportunity.

 

[heatlesssun]

Here's a major IT media outlet that gave the W105 a GOOD rating! http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/toshiba-libretto-w105-l251/4505-3121_7-34167329.html#reviewPage1

But this is quite disturbing:

Unlike Apple's iPad, you can't simply use your finger to flick-scroll through Web pages or documents (although we also found some system windows where you could), and working tiny buttons and tabs was frustrating, even when using the onscreen touch pad instead of a finger. That said, the touch controls on the Libretto are among the most responsive we've encountered on a Windows-based tablet (although that's not really saying much, considering the laggy Windows tablets we've used in the past).

The thing is that ALL of this is just wrong. IE, FF support finger scrolling out of the box and Chrome can do it with exstensions and all of the Office 2010 apps have finger scrolling as well.

I emailed the author and he told me that he couldn't get finger scrolling to work on this unit but I've talked to a dozen W105/W100 users and NONE had mentioned this issue to be, which is pretty seriously bad. This was a favorable review and it shouldn't have been with if indeed the author couldn't get finger scolling to work in ANYTHING.


But yeah, the so called expert reviewers really don't seem to understand fuck about this device nor do they seem to actually talk to other people.

 

[Aurelius]

I was thinking more the orientation of the design than the onscreen keyboard layout.

As a notebook, it's still a folding device. I wouldn't know how comfortable it'd be to hold the W105 while you thumb type compared to a pure slate. The current iPad is almost too big to do it (though it does work!), but should a seven-inch model come out, it could be slick.

 

[heatlesssun]

It works very much like a tilt screen, the screen can be tilted or lay straight out like a pure slate plus the haptic feedback is great, much more feel to it than a phone. And it's WAY easier to thumb type on than an iPad, I've tried it.

 

[Aurelius]

Good! I imagine a lot of it has to do with simply being smaller. I still say that a seven-inch iPad could be very interesting indeed. The Galaxy Tab might have an edge in that area, but since it sounds like it might be tied to a two-year contract, it's too expensive for a lot of people.

 

[heatlesssun]

It'll be interesting, personally I think a single 7" is a bit small for a slate and too big for a phone but I really don't have a good feel for how this will play out. The Galaxy looks nice but it's pretty expensive. A 7" iPad would have to be cheaper is my guess.

 

[heavyharmonies]

Just a thought: As long as one is considering the W100 price point, why not look at the Sony Vaio X? I have one and love the dang thing.

11" screen, 0.5" thick, 1.6 pounds. 128GB SSD, 2GB RAM, Win7, built-in 3G. Three battery options, two of which ship standard (S and X) - The tiny S battery will get you 3 hours, the bolt-on X battery will get you 10+ hours. You can get an L battery (not released in the U.S.) that is the same form factor as the S, but gets you 5-6 hours, which is the battery I use the most.

It's the only laptop/netbook I've ever owned that would fit entirely inside my leather portfolio... with an extra battery.

The version I own is the exact one pictured here:

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/01/13/review-sony-vaio-x-series-notebook-pc/

There is no perfect solution for everyone, but there are options. Personally, I'm also considering getting an iPad just to experiment with (I love gadgets and have previously owned various UMPCs including the Sony UX series, the Samsung Q1 Ultra, and the Vulcan Flipstart).

 

[heatlesssun]

Nice machine but this is a very different puppy than a W100 because it's not touch based. Now this Vaio this size with dual screens and an active pen digitzer,
that would sell itself.

But you're absolutely right, none of the devices is the end all, not even the iPad, it all depends on what you need out of the device. The iPad is CLEARLY geared towards entertainment and that's cool but not what I want or need in a tablet device, though the W100 has entertainment ability like the iPad has office automation ability, it's just not geared for it.

 

[faiz23]

thanks for the pics appreciate it

 

[Ronco]

Real-life weight?

Real-Life wifi'd runtime (with power saving)?

Thanks.

Have X201T's, not entirely sure I want to go keyboardless but would like to give one a try - especially something much lighter than the Lenovo, as long as it's actually usable in my working life.