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Discussion in 'Displays' started by illli, Sep 9, 2019.
I'll have the 77" for that . You can't get a GSYNC OLED in 32" so we're making 55" work.
I didn't say I was 8' away from my 70' tv due to desktop/app use and text vs ppi, it just so happens that it is the viewing distance that is best for the couch and room layout from the center of the couch in order to watch movies and tv shows while also being able to have 7.1 rear speakers placed appropriately.
However it does give me another actual usage scenario to reference for 4k pixel sizes and viewing distances along with my other screens, and I can move my head closer or sit on my ottoman to check it out. I don't think I'd be much closer than 5' if I was using a 70" 4k for desktop/apps/text reading regularly. 3' is good for a single 43" 4k, but I'm using a wide array of three monitors so I sit back a bit farther away at 3.5' with my current setup..
It seems like if you subtract about 1/6th of the monitor's diagonal size you get a rough estimate of a reasonable "nearest" viewing distance to work from. (rough "nearest" estimate, not necessarily "best" distance).
Monitor size divided by 6 , times 5 = viewing distance
15" = 12.5" (around 1')
27" = 22.5" (a bit under 2')
32" = 26.6" (a few inch past 2')
43" = 35.8" (about 3')
55" = 45.8" (3.8' - 4')
65" = 54.16" (4.5')
70" = 58.33" (4.86' - 5')
So if I were going by that, 3.8' to 4' is a bit less than I was arguing earlier so I may have been a bit off saying 4k 55" and it's ppi should be 4.5 - 5'+ as a minimum rather than as a comfortable viewing distance. Still 3.8' to 4' distance is a big difference from 2.5' for viewing a 55" (at 4k ppi of 93.24ppi) and compared to it's overall size vs comfort factor at 2.5'.
For my muti monitor array I would have to sit farther away than that 3.8' to 4' with a 55" in the middle to still make more use of my side monitors though.
Ignoring the gpu power and hz limitations of technology for games for the moment - if they were large 8k screens instead of 4k ones the viewing distance could be nearer as far as the poor ppi aspect goes I suppose, within reason.
I guess I should have clarified that I am gaming from a recliner in the living room.
Is it not possible to send audio over another HDMI connection, or with a Displayport>HDMI adapter? Not as clean, but it would get you playing at 4k120 with 7.1 audio a couple years earlier.
This is how I feel with my 55" oled. Even though my desk is 1.2 meter deep. Really fucking tired of this.
Dam this really makes me want to upgrade form my c6. Which if anyone is wornding in the 3 years I uesed it as computer monitor I have had no issues with burn ir issues (if I look for it on 100% color slides I can see very faint ir sometimes but never much and allways goes away once I play a different game or something) I know some people worry about burn in on theses things but it's way way less of an issue then say a plasma.
If only they had something in the 40 range it would be the ultimate gaming setup for anyone on the fence about uesing a tv just do it the oled stuff blows everything out the water
I thought my 49" 5120x1440 Samsung CRG9 was just a crazy format when I saw it at a store but it started slowly to make sense so I bought one. For me at about half a meter away it fills my field of view quite nicely, without having to look up or down but I do have to look side to size. It's so immersive that I think my favorite size might be 5120x1600 if they ever manage to make one: A bit more space up top while keeping the wide field of view. In games where the display works well having proper peripheral vision is really very nice.
But what's the input lag?
Very low on the LG OLEDs. https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9-oled#comparison_2486
Relatively low, even in 4k HDR. 4k60 latency is just under a frame, which is acceptable. I wouldn't use it competitively per-se, but it's more then fast enough for normal FPS gameplay.
... and 50ms in any non-game mode for C9. Game mode looks like pos on my C7, which is not even possible to calibrate. From the other hand, the c9's support hardware calibration. Then, yeah, it's fine. Really fast response times, if you can hardware calibrate the game mode or if you are ok with its rendering by default...
I've always had to use game mode on my tvs and turn off enhancements. Of course enhancements add lag they are more processing. You can usually tweak your game mode settings to still look very good, I'm guessing extremely good still on a oled.
The input lag is lower on LG OLEDs and the Samsung Q9f series TVs when running 120hz. This is yet another reason nvidia lacking hdmi 2.1 is hobbling the use of these tvs off of a pc (at least at 4k native resolution).
120hz at higher fps yields appreciable sample and hold blur reductions as well as more motion definition and fluidity - especially in 1st/ 3rd person games where it applies to the whole game world moving relative to you when moving the viewport at speed..and as outlined below on these tv models - lower input lag.
The input lag at 1440p drops from 13.9ms at 60hz to 6.6ms at 120hz on the C9 oled ,
1080p 60hz at 21.4ms down to 11.1ms at 120hz on a samsung Q9FN (there is no 1440p 60hz to compare to, but 1440p 120hz is 10.8ms on the Q9Fn).
We can extrapolate from that trend that 4k 120hz will have similar lower numbers.
A frame at 60fps on a 120hz display is 16.6ms , at 100fps on a 120hz display is 10ms, at 120fps is 8.3ms. You can relate these numbers to the input lag amounts.
LG C9 (according to rtings.com review)
Samsung Q9Fn (according to Rtings.com review)
I feel like we need some perspective here - I've been running my B7 in Game mode since day one and it's still far and away the most gorgeous picture I've seen. I'd hardly classify it as looking like a pos (even when switching between the other modes) when it's still superior to any LCD that I've viewed or owned... What do you find lacking? I'm genuinely curious because I must not know what I've been missing, lol. I changed it to Standard mode briefly and holy brightness, Batman! After running mine in Game mode with a low OLED light setting for so long, Standard mode was retina searing, haha. I'm sure that I would need to make some adjustments to the various sliders in order to be able to make a good comparison because with the brightness and gamma levels being so different right off of the bat, it was just sensory overload.
That's good to know that the C9 supports calibration! The C9 is looking better and better with each passing day.
I'm with Lateralus, on my C7 game mode looks indiscernible in terms of image quality from other modes. Maybe I have poor eyesight (which I do), or am I missing out on something?
I hope lg fixes the earc issues in the future. Doesn't matter much now but will in the future. I don't want to have to buy a new receiver just so I can get all the new features of HDMI 2.1.
game mode has blue tint like a cheap gaming tn panel, if I remember correctly and it doesn't offer settings for calibration. so I use dark room preset which can be calibrated in and out. difference between calibrated and non calibrated oled is huge btw. probably I just look at the calibrated movie vs noncal. game presets. ]
One thing for sure though is that I never calibrated the hdr presets, and the hdr gaming preset definitely looks like pos to me vs the Movie HDR preset. Movie HDR preset for gaming looks absolutely gorgeous. For actual movies the Technicolor HDR profile looks a bit better imo...
Shocking news, TVs need to be calibrated. Rtings settings are "okish", but you should probably do a proper calibration for your specific set.
You can also use reference images and try to tune it up a little. I don't know if you have to access a service menu on those OLED tvs to get more options though. Calibration, even monitors with good factory calibration or using calibration hardware+software is a good starting point but displays benefit from further tweaking to your own lighting environment and your own eyes. Calibration is done right up against the panel usually without any light sources involved. Once you have any bias or room lighting whatsoever, our eyes will perceive contrast and saturation differently. If you allow your room lighting conditions to change it will swing either way then also. Some people prefer a little more saturation for games, etc. as well. I keep a bunch of named custom settings on my fald VA tv for different times of day//night and room lighting conditions and one just for anime/animated material for example.
Didn't they add some sort of support for autocalibration using a phone? Or was that some other tv
I don't know about autocalibration, but there is a free app that people on AVS Forum seem to like called Color Grab.
I did, using the i1display pro calibrator tool and free HCFR software. Several days of calibrating and in the end got a perfectly hardware calibrated sRGB display with maximum color deviation within dE<2.5 on 1 or two color tones, rest were within dE=1 mostly. Except gamma, because the display offers no options for gamma calibration, but thankfully, the default gamma was good enough on C7s.
I went through a calibration exercise with the isf Expert (Bright Room) mode using Calman with an i1display pro when I first got the b7. The initial calibration was actually quite good and it only required small tweaks that were hardly noticeable. I always have lighting on in the living room as I have a small baby at the moment so I didn't bother with the dark room config.
The gaming mode looked quite good to my eyes once the OLED light was adjusted - even back to back with media consumption on the "calibrated" picture mode. Just my two cents on that particular TV.
Sorry to hijack this thread but can anyone point me in the right direction for the best LG OLED C9 settings strictly for PC SDR & HDR gaming? I'm following this guide:
But I don't think it really has the best settings. For example, I noticed my blacks were not black but more of a light grey until I fiddled around and put the "Black Level" on "Low" which then gave me perfect blacks. I also much preferred the "Game" most presents over the "ISF Expert - Dark Room" settings the guide suggests as everything just looked dark and dim. I prefer more "pop" and vivid color versus 100% color accuracy. Any advice would be appreciated. I did some of the basics such as changing the HDMI input to PC. I know there's some various posts out there but not sure if things changed over time with software updates or if new & better settings were discovered overtime. Thanks!
Always set black level low if you are outputing full rgb. Your isf are going to be your most accurate if you somewhat calibrated it. I switch between that and the true color whatever is called mode. Also keep the oled light down in the 30s rang if you want little to no ir.....oled are not about the pop it's more about the pop form a dark scene looking amazing they don't have anywhere colse to the peaks of lcd....that said at night I could blind myself with mine if I wanted lol.
Honestly don't follow any hide do what you like the best just for the love of God don't be one of them that run a tv in vivid with Max everything lol.
How many hours are on it? On mine the pq changed somewhat over the frist few 100 hours to look more balanced for lack of a better word.
Seems like this is closest to the ideal TV, I might upgrade to this during black friday. Other than burn in, my biggest worry is loss of detail from black crush. When I was in Costco the C9 was next to a bunch of LG IPS and a Samsung QLED and while nothing could compete with the OLED with viewing angles and color uniformity/vibrancy, the lack of detail with darker colors kind of bothered me. For example there was a woman with black hair and you could see all the gradients and shadow detail on her hair on the LCDs, but on the OLED it just look like a giant black blob. I'm worried that would make darker games like Resident Evil 2 unplayable.
I guess you could turn the brightness up to the max to get some more detail in darker scenes, but trade-off with OLED lifespan.
Costco is lit with a half-billion flourescent lights. The absolute worst conditions for watching video.
OLED is best viewed in a dimly lit or dark room. If you always have a bunch of lights on in your place, or you play mostly during the day, then OLED might not be for you.
I'm sure those sets were carefully optimized for image quality by the Costco employees, too.
pippenainteasy there could be several adjustments that would have been necessary in order to rectify what you were seeing. Also note that brightness and OLED light level are two separate things and, AFAIK, the OLED light level has an effect on lifespan while brightness does not.
The point is there are lots of unknowns here so I wouldn't rush to judgment.
Unfortunately I need to RMA mine. I got a stuck red pixel in the top center and the internal power supply makes a high pitch squeal when displaying all black (common hit or miss issue it seems from internet research). The noise didn't bother me enough on its own since you have to be pretty close to the screen to hear it. I just don't understand the $1000+ monitor/TV market. I probably have a 75% rate of stuck pixels on my "premium high end" screens for the last 15+ years. I can't tell you how many Samsung 305T's, Apple Cinema Displays, and various G-Sync & ultawide monitors I've gone through until I found one that didn't have a stuck pixel.
I'm definitely getting another one though!!!! LCD = dead to me. No going back. Funny thing is, 60HZ OLED feels just as fluid to me as my previous 120HZ G-Sync display due to pixel response & technology. It feels roughly the equivalent of running a LCD at 100hz imo. I couldn't imagine once this sucker gets 4K 120HZ & VRR support.
Last I knew and last I played (springtime), RE2 had problems with proper HDR resulting in washed out / elevated blacks. I had to spend some time fiddling with the in-game HDR settings along with my OLED settings.
I ran a 25ft HDMI cable from the PC in my office out to my livingroom, turned my desktop resolution down to 1080p, cranked up all settings to max, and let the TV upscale. Looked pretty great in the end.
An odd thing.
I pass video through a Denon X4400H AVR and this doesnt expose the mode 1440p120 to my Q9FN.
But it does present 1440p60 and it looks/works absolutely fine despite the display alone not exposing this mode with a direct connection.
I can make a custom mode for 1440p120 through the AVR, this works fine.
fwiw I am using RGB full.
Atm I dont know why the Q9FN doesnt expose 1440p60 mode directly.
You have to keep in mind how many pixels these 4k TV's have and 95% of people don't ues TV's the way we do and will probably never look close enough to see them. It's why I buy all my TV's form local stores.