Justgetmein
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2005
- Messages
- 148
Is there any good lcd for gaming or is CRT still better for gaming?
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LCD for gaming?
- Thread starter Justgetmein
- Start date
Tiger direct has a half decent mathmatical breakdown of milisecond delay that goes something like this:
The VESA (the video standards people) figure that 72hz refresh is required for CRTs in order not to be affected by screen flicker. That means 72 refreshes/second. LCDs dont use refresh rates but they do use responce time, which can be converted to refreshes/second. Say you have a 16ms LCD. That means that every second it refreshes approximately 62.5 times (1s/16ms). 62.5 refreshes doesn't cut it according to VESA, so you will need a screen that does at least 12ms which means 83.3 refreshes/s.
But sensativity to flicker/refreshes is different for every person. Some people are not bothered at all by 60hz refresh, for some, they aren't satisfied unless their CRT runs above 100hz. Depending on which you are, you will likely be more or less bothered by slower refresh rates.
The fact of the lcd world is that no real innovation is being made. It's the same technology but with overdrives and subsequent tradeoffs in quality or viewing angle etc. The small progress that is being made might make a difference to you, but the point is that there will be no LCD that comes out anytime soon and is all of a sudden crownd the most amazing gamming LCD. What's out there has been out there for a while, and what's around the corner often is only slightly improved from it's predecessor. Since you are focused on gamming you could go for a monitor that makes tradeoffs twords a responce time end. Fast TN pannels produce very low responce times but watch out because they are often only the lowest responce time measure, not the average.
Since the numbers are already out there for the specs on LCDs I'll tell you that after staring at displays at bestbuy the only one that really impressed me with responce was the Samsung SyncMaster 930BF. If all you care about is gamming, i'm sure that monitor will do the job and beyond. Of course, it's native resolution is a lackluster 1280x1024.
The VESA (the video standards people) figure that 72hz refresh is required for CRTs in order not to be affected by screen flicker. That means 72 refreshes/second. LCDs dont use refresh rates but they do use responce time, which can be converted to refreshes/second. Say you have a 16ms LCD. That means that every second it refreshes approximately 62.5 times (1s/16ms). 62.5 refreshes doesn't cut it according to VESA, so you will need a screen that does at least 12ms which means 83.3 refreshes/s.
But sensativity to flicker/refreshes is different for every person. Some people are not bothered at all by 60hz refresh, for some, they aren't satisfied unless their CRT runs above 100hz. Depending on which you are, you will likely be more or less bothered by slower refresh rates.
The fact of the lcd world is that no real innovation is being made. It's the same technology but with overdrives and subsequent tradeoffs in quality or viewing angle etc. The small progress that is being made might make a difference to you, but the point is that there will be no LCD that comes out anytime soon and is all of a sudden crownd the most amazing gamming LCD. What's out there has been out there for a while, and what's around the corner often is only slightly improved from it's predecessor. Since you are focused on gamming you could go for a monitor that makes tradeoffs twords a responce time end. Fast TN pannels produce very low responce times but watch out because they are often only the lowest responce time measure, not the average.
Since the numbers are already out there for the specs on LCDs I'll tell you that after staring at displays at bestbuy the only one that really impressed me with responce was the Samsung SyncMaster 930BF. If all you care about is gamming, i'm sure that monitor will do the job and beyond. Of course, it's native resolution is a lackluster 1280x1024.
Read this:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71226
I have a Viewsonic VA1912wb which is widescreen, and it's 8ms. I have not seen any ghosting in games or movies.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71226
I have a Viewsonic VA1912wb which is widescreen, and it's 8ms. I have not seen any ghosting in games or movies.
Justgetmein
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2005
- Messages
- 148
OMG your Viewsonic VA1912wb looks super sweet one question i am worried about the native resolution can a 6800gs run it on that resolution *Man so excited*
Justgetmein said:
YES. My 6600GT runs at 1440x900, i'm positive a 6800GS will run at it.
Here are some pictures of it. I love it.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d110/josh_1413/JoshsSetup2.jpg
Please excuse the dust bunnies, my old CRT liked eating them
...........http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d110/josh_1413/JoshsSetup1.jpg
PKFGimpy said:What types of games do you primarily play?
IMO, if you're a hard-core FPS junkie, LCD's aren't for you. I've learned this the hard way, but I still adore my 2405FPW
I dissagree. I have not noticed any ghosting none what-so-ever. Not when you have response time down under 16-12ms your not going to notice ghosting, much less on Viewsonic VA1912wb @ 8ms.
PKFGimpy said:What types of games do you primarily play?
IMO, if you're a hard-core FPS junkie, LCD's aren't for you. I've learned this the hard way, but I still adore my 2405FPW
gah. i am.... this makes me mad.
everytime i read something like this, then several people aer like, "you wont notice any ghosting or anything".
but then tehres always the person that is like, if your a fan of FPS's and whatnot, then this isnt for you...
Whats the truth? I am about to make a very expensive purchase...
fodder0 said:
There's no "truth" about which is best for you. Read my post. Some people really dont notice anything wrong with 60hz refresh on CRTs. Some people do. Get over thinking u need to get something that fits everyone's standards and just buy something you'll have fun with.
fodder0 said:
Its a matter of personal preference and perception and with that, only YOU can determine what you like and don't. If you go with the Dell, you have 21 days to return it for a full refund so you loose nothing ifyou don't like the Dell or an LCD in general.
That being said, I notice a little bit of ghosting on my 2405, mostly in HL2 Deatmatch but as long as I don't think or intentially watch for it, its hardly noticible.
Justgetmein
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2005
- Messages
- 148
Ok so this is the monitor i was gonna to buy Buy me!
but i was strong and didn't listen so i went here and asked and the VA1912wb seems really sweet and it has widescreen (I can't believe i'm gonna own something like that).
Just one question, when i'm playing a game on a 640 x 480 will there be ghosting or will it look worse than using a CRT on the same resolution (the native resolution for the VA1912wb scares me)
And I have always used a 60 refresh rate on my monitor and it didn't bother me.
... god dam you california tax, god dam you ups and god dam you dead pixels
but i was strong and didn't listen so i went here and asked and the VA1912wb seems really sweet and it has widescreen
(I can't believe i'm gonna own something like that).Just one question, when i'm playing a game on a 640 x 480 will there be ghosting or will it look worse than using a CRT on the same resolution (the native resolution for the VA1912wb scares me)
And I have always used a 60 refresh rate on my monitor and it didn't bother me.
... god dam you california tax, god dam you ups and god dam you dead pixels
Justgetmein
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2005
- Messages
- 148
sad, i can buy it cheaper on amazon (VA1912wb) then on newegg... dam california tax
Heheh, sorry for scaring you with my comment.
I do think you should perhaps try out an LCD in person before you splurge on the 2405. Don't get me wrong, its an awsome display and most gamers will not have any issues playing FPS's on it, but I do think its worth considering some of the drawbacks to LCD technology.
I tend to be pretty picky about these things, but the things that kinda hurt this display for FPS gaming for me are:
60Hz refresh rate limitation:
Your games will be limited to 60FPS, which isn't so bad in itself, but unless you turn on VSync you will notice some pretty extreme tearing. It can be distracting.
However, VSync comes with a significant drawback - it introduces a few ms of lag time between your input and what you see on the screen. You will feel "mouse lag" in fast past FPS games with VSync enabled. In a twitch game like Quake or Unreal Tournament it will have a determental affect on your fragging performance
Also, something that has bothered me, is the black-levels. For an LCD the black levels are excellent, but they are nowhere near the pure blacks of a quality CRT. You will notice this in any game with dark areas (such as Quake IV, Doom III, FEAR). Maybe this bothers me more than most people, but I like my blacks black, not grey.
I also notice the black level issue when watching movies in a dark room. Even if the screen is totally black, my room is still fairly illuminated by the backlight.
Anyway, I make it sound like I hate this display. I don't, it's an excellent display and I love it (for the most part). But, if you're coming from CRT's (like me) and you don't realize the drawbacks of the technology, you might not realize exactly how it is going to perform and whether or not these things are going to be an issue for you. I think you should try an LCD first hand before you make your purchase.
I do think you should perhaps try out an LCD in person before you splurge on the 2405. Don't get me wrong, its an awsome display and most gamers will not have any issues playing FPS's on it, but I do think its worth considering some of the drawbacks to LCD technology.
I tend to be pretty picky about these things, but the things that kinda hurt this display for FPS gaming for me are:
60Hz refresh rate limitation:
Your games will be limited to 60FPS, which isn't so bad in itself, but unless you turn on VSync you will notice some pretty extreme tearing. It can be distracting.
However, VSync comes with a significant drawback - it introduces a few ms of lag time between your input and what you see on the screen. You will feel "mouse lag" in fast past FPS games with VSync enabled. In a twitch game like Quake or Unreal Tournament it will have a determental affect on your fragging performance
Also, something that has bothered me, is the black-levels. For an LCD the black levels are excellent, but they are nowhere near the pure blacks of a quality CRT. You will notice this in any game with dark areas (such as Quake IV, Doom III, FEAR). Maybe this bothers me more than most people, but I like my blacks black, not grey.
I also notice the black level issue when watching movies in a dark room. Even if the screen is totally black, my room is still fairly illuminated by the backlight.
Anyway, I make it sound like I hate this display. I don't, it's an excellent display and I love it (for the most part). But, if you're coming from CRT's (like me) and you don't realize the drawbacks of the technology, you might not realize exactly how it is going to perform and whether or not these things are going to be an issue for you. I think you should try an LCD first hand before you make your purchase.