Lawmakers Move to Block Black Box Recorders in Cars

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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Could it be that something positive is coming out of the firestorm and backlash of the NSA debacle? It looks like a lesson has been learned concerning personal privacy and is making its way to Congress. The Black Box, which is due to be required in cars next year, is being challenged by several members of Congress.

The bill also gives vehicle owners control over the data. All data collected by an EDR becomes the property of the vehicle owner under this legislation. The bill would make it illegal for anyone other than the vehicle owner to download or retrieve information without owner consent or a court order.
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You have had black boxes in your cars ever since you had airbags. I don't own any cars or trucks that don't have one. It is integrated into the airbag computer.

They were intended to collect data that will improve airbag deployment and crash physics statistics. They only record the last 5-20 seconds prior to an airbag event. It's a rolling buffer.

Do you want to know WHY they put them in? So you could not sue them because an airbag went off without good reason, and caused your crash.

You want no black boxes? Then you want more expensive cars and more law schools, and more stupid TV ads... "Dewey, Cheatum, & Howe got me 5 Billion DOLLARS!!!"
 
There's no harmful data in black boxes.

Sounds like congressmen just don't want evidence of them visiting their mistresses on the side. Wait, don't GPS units record where you've been?
outlaw gps units.
 
Lame! We need these in cars so we can figure out who was speeding or doing something dumb to cause an accident and put people who drive like idiots in jail where they belong, rotting with all the people that smoke pot and burn down hotels. Plus, police could be able to remotely disable or take control of a car that's being driven by someone trying to escape and that could stop a lot of criminals from trying to use a car and put a bunch of people at risk like that guy who was part of the weird Occulus thing that's redoing VR helmets.
 
dr.kevin said:
There's no harmful data in black boxes.
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until the factory voids your warranty because you hit red line before the break-in period was over or your insurance company cancels your policy because the black box recorded you driving 80mph.

The idea of a black box is great for the big companies and terrible for the consumer.
 
It's just crash data. Speed, rotation, steering angle (if digital assist), brake status for each wheel sensor, airbag status, G-force and direction, etc. It is not hooked to the GPS, as GPS data is too slow to do the physics.

Look, if you are going 100 mph and kill your passenger, (true case), your lawyer cannot argue it was a vehicle malfunction and you were going 65 mph.

This is only good for law firms, not the public.
 
People who think black boxes are a good idea are probably the same people who think Edward Snowden is a traitor.
 
Qinsp said:
It's just crash data. Speed, rotation, steering angle (if digital assist), brake status for each wheel sensor, airbag status, G-force and direction, etc. It is not hooked to the GPS, as GPS data is too slow to do the physics.

Look, if you are going 100 mph and kill your passenger, (true case), your lawyer cannot argue it was a vehicle malfunction and you were going 65 mph.

This is only good for law firms, not the public.
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How is going 100 mph and killing a passenger in a car good for the public though? If people know they're being watched, they'll be afraid of the consequences (well not all of them, but some will) and maybe do fewer dumb things.
 
Keep in mind that those black boxes could easily record far more information than they currently do.
 
robble said:
until the factory voids your warranty because you hit red line before the break-in period was over or your insurance company cancels your policy because the black box recorded you driving 80mph.

The idea of a black box is great for the big companies and terrible for the consumer.
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Your black box does not store ANY data until the airbags deploy. Then it looks at the history in RAM and writes to static memory.

It's like the new cameras.

You want to take a picture of your son hitting a pitch in baseball. The camera is storing images at 60 fps or higher then overwriting it. When you hit the shutter, it saves the images before and after you clicked. Now you can find the picture of him actually making contact.
 
robble said:
People who think black boxes are a good idea are probably the same people who think Edward Snowden is a traitor.
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Should we remove them from aircraft?

People who don't understand how black boxes work, are the same people who think tin foil will protect you from alien transmissions.
 
dr.kevin said:
There's no harmful data in black boxes.

Sounds like congressmen just don't want evidence of them visiting their mistresses on the side. Wait, don't GPS units record where you've been?
outlaw gps units.
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Aren't mistresses women? Outlaw women!
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
They should! They need to record pretty much everything going on.
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The first gen airbags killed a lot of people. Black box data was critical to adjusting the technology to make it safer.

Other things were learned as well about ABS brake tuning, crumple zones, and Active Handling.

The PoPo has not ever used airbag data for non-fatal accidents. And I doubt they ever will. They barely take written reports anymore for non-lethal accidents.
 
If you want to worry about something, worry about your WebPhone.

Is it sending information about you to anyone without your knowledge? Yes.

Is it storing information in an area where it is not accessible by you? Yes.

You're probably carrying a Black Box in your pocket ...
 
robble said:
People who think black boxes are a good idea are probably the same people who think Edward Snowden is a traitor.
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Actually I think Snowden is the real definition of a Patriot (and not in the kind of way the tea bagging nut jobs have assumed the use of that word),,,

But I also think black boxes on cars should be required. Make them legally accessible only after an accident for the investigation (to protect them from insurance companies and what not) to determine what happened (if necessary)... but people in this country take for granted the fact that driving is a PRIVILEGE and not a right, and on public roads you have a responsibility to follow the rules, drive safely, and SHARE the road. Yeah douchbags, it's not all about you...

But sadly drivers are only getting worse and worse (and this is one thing I will place some blame towards video games and all the kids growing up playing Need for Speed...)

Between all the psychos who wanna road rage if you wont get out of THEIR way, all the idiots on cell phones, and all the juvenile pricks overcompensating for their small dicks and/or inability to please a woman by having to drive their tuned up track car recklessly on the street....

Yeah, I say bring on the black boxes.

Fact is we are only decades away from fully self driving cars anyways, and frankly as much as I love to drive, this is a good thing... Put 90% of the people in robot cars, and let the few who can actually drive safely and responsibly pay extra to drive themselves....

And while we're at it... ban all gasoline engines from public roads by 2030. That'll spur some much needed innovation into some electric vehicles we can actually use.
 
Noone is putting those in any of my cars. Another advantage to owning cars 30 years old and older. I also keep my vehicles registered at boonies dmvs fnstill on the paper system. They don't even have internet service to renew registration or obtain basic documents. Nothing some giant earth magnets won't cure
 
Qinsp said:
You want no black boxes? Then you want more expensive cars and more law schools, and more stupid TV ads... "Dewey, Cheatum, & Howe got me 5 Billion DOLLARS!!!"
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Or you just want a car without an airbag ;)
 
Personally, if the government wanted to put this much effort into a new technology for cars I would prefer they work with Google (or someone) to implement driver-less cars or hover-cars or better yet, driver-less hover-cars :cool:
 
Most vehicles do all of this already. When I bought my used car, I brought it to the dealer and they gave me a printout that listed the 5 highest rpms the engine seen, the highest vehicle speed, average speed, percent of time engine spent in each 2000 rpm band, etc. This car was made in 2005.
 
We've been through this debate on here before.

Blackboxes are only a danger if you broke the law and were careless in your driving and caused someone to get hurt.

This law is designed so that mfg's/garages/dealerships and police can not extract information from your blackbox about your personal habits without permission or a warrant.
 
Wrecked Em said:
Most vehicles do all of this already. When I bought my used car, I brought it to the dealer and they gave me a printout that listed the 5 highest rpms the engine seen, the highest vehicle speed, average speed, percent of time engine spent in each 2000 rpm band, etc. This car was made in 2005.
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Wrecked Em said:
Oh, this was all date/time stamped also.
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:| No thanks. This is why we can't have nice things...
 
If you want to divert attention, go after the auto industry.

A lot of that data is necessary for diagnostics and repair. I'm sure something can be worked out to satisfy both, but knee jerk legislation that is a world apart from the real problem of the day isn't it.
 
Too late. Pretty much every late model car has one already. For example, Fords have had them since 2002.
 
Not all black boxes are the same, and the amount of information they collect and how they collect them is a huge privacy concern.

For example, there is a big difference between the below two and more importantly WHO IS ALLOWED TO REQUEST ACCESS and can that info be taken without your consent:

1) A black box that records how many G-forces were recorded before an air-bag deployed.

2) A black box that uses a cellular network to track your cars location realtime which is stored in a mass database for the last 720 days, and logs your acceleration on all axis, and speed.

And if the government can gain access to #2 blackbox without a warrant, hell, they could issue you speeding tickets in the mail, since on June 24th at 8:07AM GPS info indicates you were at HW74 Northbound going 8mph over the limit, and didn't come to a complete stop at the stop sign on York and Pendleton street. Mail payment at your convenience.
 
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