Lapping Q6600.

ASIA911 said:
I relapped my CPU and Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme and NO IMPROVEMENT! I realize now that it's useless if you are air cooling this. Totally useless and a waste of time.
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If you already had good contact then you did not needed it.
 
turtletrax said:
Let me know your results ie: your BIOS/Windows/Load voltages plz. ;)


And @ Asia911, spoken like a tru 9y/o :rolleyes:
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Do you really need to freaking insult me? There's no need for that. There's a big different between air cooling and water cooling and please, don't tell me you DO NOT know the difference. I'll bet you that water cooling is more sensitive to the flatness or the material of your CPU than air cooling.
 
I lapped my e4400 because of bad contact between it and an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro aircooler.

Result: 10C drop in load temps.

Bad contact is bad contact, regardless of cooling method.
 
markintosh13 said:
I lapped my e4400 because of bad contact between it and an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro aircooler.

Result: 10C drop in load temps.

Bad contact is bad contact, regardless of cooling method.
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I have a feeling its a hit or miss kind of thing. I have relapped both the CPU and heatsink and got it as flat as it could get. Hardly any improvement over the unlap version. SInce your is a 2 cores vs my 4 cores Rev B3 at 105Watt, it could be a different story here. I have reseated my heatsink many time, same thing. Totally not a bad contact since my heatsink hardly move. When I removed my heatsink, I see most of the thermal paste are squeeze right out since it have to be pretty flat to do that. I even use the best thermal paste, Artic Cooling MX-2.
 
Asia, YOU are missing the point. I thoroughly (and by that I mean to check the flatness of said CPU HS/Fan) research a mod before I use it and if I didnt use DUE DILIGENCE, I dont whine about it and call it useless. Grow up...

Also you are the one that need to learn thermodynamics. Heat removal is exact no matter how you are doing it. It is based on contact. If you are not making good contact, you wont get rid of the heat. Lapping is just as important on Air as it is Water.

annaconda said:
Turtuletrax do you have clear picture of your mod.
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Basically you use the reference point marked in RED and shade it with a B2 pencil and switch power back on your PSU and start the system. Load your Bios and check what "set" and "current" Voltages are. If they are really close you can boot into windows and check your Windows voltage with Everest, then load Prime 25.3/25.4 and see what voltage does under load. Uually is reported as 0.01/0.02v more than Idle, which IMO is quite nice since you obviously dont need more Vcore at idle than load.
 
annaconda said:
First you want to mark the CPU with the marker on all four corners like you see in the picture.
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Why? Just curious. It's pretty obvious when nickel is removed. Flatness can be tested with graph paper, although it may be a flat slope in any particular direction (constant gradient). So I'm out of ideas on why the 'X'.

For those of you who don't have glass or other flat surface, you can pick up a 1sqft flat polished granite slab at HomeDepot for < $5. This is what I used.
 
turtletrax said:
Prime2Hrs.jpg
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14 C on the side bar and it's still not winter? :eek:
 
It's been a cool August so far . . . I'm one province east of Turtletrax and it got down to about 4C overnight :mad:

Of course weather is pretty volatile in western Canada at the best of times. In July we went from highs in the low 40s to single digit lows in the course of a few days.
 
Those temps were for my 4Ghz run. My 3.6Ghz screen was at 20c ambients.

Waiting for real Winter to get a little goofy ;)
 
Look, theres a good reason to move to Canada. Imagine your temps in South Florida where it gets to 90% humidity and real air temps are at 90F to 95F and it feels like 100F.
 
jbzx86 said:
Look, theres a good reason to move to Canada. Imagine your temps in South Florida where it gets to 90% humidity and real air temps are at 90F to 95F and it feels like 100F.
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Better turn the AC up then !!!
 
does anyone know how thick the average IHS is on a C2D/Q processor? Today I spent literally 5 hours at work doing nothing but sanding away at an IHS hoping to reach the core. After piling up ungodly amounts of copper dust the sandpaper eventually got worn out....

Does anyone know? At the end I took a pair of scissors and started gouging the side of the proc, hoping to get an idea of how far down the IHS went, but even after a few minutes of hard digging I *still* couldn't get past the IHS.....

oh, and dont worry abt the proc, it still works, the surface just has a super deep scratch on it now :)
 
Bruce you need to show some commitment man. Keep doing you will get there, for faster process you need lower Grit Sandpaper, when you get to the bottom then use higher grit for smother surface.
 
annaconda said:
Bruce you need to show some commitment man. Keep doing you will get there, for faster process you need lower Grit Sandpaper, when you get to the bottom then use higher grit for smother surface.
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well I mean.... I enjoyed the process of doing something that either noone else has done, or very few have done (SERIOUSLY, does anyone know if anyone else has tried to completely sand off the top of an IHS??), but I dont like work enough to stay past 5 :)

Anyway, this weekend i'm getting even lower grit sandpaper and on monday when I go back I'll spend another 5 hours trying to get that IHS off.

If anyone is curious abt the processor I'm lapping, its a Pentium D 945 that I took out of one of the many spare computers we have here (I'm work at the computer help desk at my university.... lunch money...) Even with the *deeep* gouge I put in it off center, and despite the fact that i didn't reapply any thermal grease, the processor worked just fine after I put the dell heatsink back on..... even ran quietly too.... seriously, Dells run quiet!
 
annaconda said:
Turtletrax i hope you did not record those CPU's temp outside. ;)
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Nah... lol!!! Just opened up the sliding glass door and let nature take its course.

I might do some insulating and run sub-zero coolant when she hits -40c this winter. All I would have to do is run venting to the rads and vent to the "warmer" air back outside. That way I am not running my system outside and I dont have to pay to heat the whole neighborhood :D


I would probably buy a pump that I wouldnt care if I killed. Perhaps a AX 50Z or a D5. I would really hate to kill my precious (working) DDC-2's

Edit @ brucedeluxe169

I would be conscience about keeping the IHS flat while sanding. Flatness is the main concern while lapping and you would hate to sand the IHS uneven, then get to the core and sand it before knowing that you have reached it. My guess is the cores are even more sensitive @ 65nm. Not much damage would kill the core.
 
Your thread has inspired me to give my q6600 a little sanding! :)

I'm going to pair this up with a Ninja Rev.b heatsink and see how things go.

Any additional guides or other tips that would be helpful for us first time lappers are appreciated. :)
 
turtletrax said:
I would be conscience about keeping the IHS flat while sanding. Flatness is the main concern while lapping and you would hate to sand the IHS uneven, then get to the core and sand it before knowing that you have reached it. My guess is the cores are even more sensitive @ 65nm. Not much damage would kill the core.
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I definately try my best to keep it flat, and so far I'm pretty sure I'm doing a good job at it...
besides, the possibility of failure is why i'm trying this on a Pentium D instead of one of the Conroes we have here in the office. I doubt i'll mistakenly sand the core and ruin it... I mean the heatspreader is copper colored, once I start to get close enough to the die I'm sure the color will be markedly different....

edit: and of course, in the event of a successful IHS removal, pics will most definately be posted :)
 
and of course, in the event of a successful IHS removal, pics will most definately be posted
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Murderer! :D

BTW, why did you use soap when you wet the sandpaper? I thought you were supposed to keep all oils, scents and other additives as far away as possible so as to maximize the performance of your thermal grease? Perhaps I'm missing something.
 
The only liquid I've ever used on my CPU/HS's is 91% alcohol.

I would worry about the additives in soaps and what not that may not evaporate completely.
 
annaconda said:
SOAP is a very bad idea in my opinon.
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That would be my guess as well. If you read AS5 instructions for instance, they recommend staying away from soaps, scented cleaners or anything that might have oils, perfumes or dyes. Any or all of these factors may reduce your total performance. To the person who suggested soap, could you please elaborate on why you did? I'm just dying to know, seeing as it contradicts everything I've heard thus far related to CPU's.
 
SonOfMore said:
That would be my guess as well. If you read AS5 instructions for instance, they recommend staying away from soaps, scented cleaners or anything that might have oils, perfumes or dyes. Any or all of these factors may reduce your total performance. To the person who suggested soap, could you please elaborate on why you did? I'm just dying to know, seeing as it contradicts everything I've heard thus far related to CPU's.
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Probably lacked the knowledge of this information...
 
SonOfMore said:
To the person who suggested soap, could you please elaborate on why you did?
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Although I'm not that person, I'll take a stab at it. There are places where a soap solution has been suggested as a lubricating agent for wet sanding.

Current consensus is that low-smell kerosine, or just plain water, is the agent of choice. However, with a good ispropyl cleaning, it shouldn't make too much of a difference whether you use soap, plain water, or Jello pudding.
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
At the end I took a pair of scissors and started gouging the side of the proc, hoping to get an idea of how far down the IHS went, but even after a few minutes of hard digging I *still* couldn't get past the IHS.....

Even with the *deeep* gouge I put in it off center, and despite the fact that i didn't reapply any thermal grease, the processor worked just fine after I put the dell heatsink back on.....
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Wow... just wow. You, sir, are nuts! :p
 
SEALTeamSix said:
Although I'm not that person, I'll take a stab at it. There are places where a soap solution has been suggested as a lubricating agent for wet sanding.

Current consensus is that low-smell kerosine, or just plain water, is the agent of choice. However, with a good ispropyl cleaning, it shouldn't make too much of a difference whether you use soap, plain water, or Jello pudding.
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I'm no chemist, but I'm hoping that the 91% isopropyl that most modders use will clean the oils off.

At the end I took a pair of scissors and started gouging the side of the proc, hoping to get an idea of how far down the IHS went, but even after a few minutes of hard digging I *still* couldn't get past the IHS.....

Even with the *deeep* gouge I put in it off center, and despite the fact that i didn't reapply any thermal grease, the processor worked just fine after I put the dell heatsink back on.....
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I'll second the previous poster's comment and brand you certifiably insane. :eek:
 
does this usally work with all cpus? is it just like removing some of the metal from the heatsink of the cpu side tiself?
 
so did the guy get down past the heat spreader yet?

the new mod of the year.......

sanding the heatspreader down to super thin sheet of paper/copper.
 
D.petersen84 said:
does this usally work with all cpus? is it just like removing some of the metal from the heatsink of the cpu side tiself?
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Yes, any time you have a CPU and a less-than-perfect (ie: non-flat) mating surface with your heatsink, you will see an improvement in heat-transfer from lapping (ie: grinding down the non-flat bits). How much improvement you see depends on how bad the contact is to start with, and also how much total heat that CPU puts off.
 
Journier said:
so did the guy get down past the heat spreader yet?

the new mod of the year.......

sanding the heatspreader down to super thin sheet of paper/copper.
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He is working on it, :) Bruce where are you man, give us good news.
 
Well, when/if I get my new job in a few weeks, I am going to be doing this. Annaconda and I have almost the exact same setup other than my G0 at 3.6 and his B3 at 3.51. I was hitting 61-62C with 85-90F ambient temps as well, and would love to be in the low 50C's in the middle of summer with the heat index reaching over 100F outside. In the winter time I open my windows in my room to get it into the 50's and 60's, so this thing should be cold.

Annaconda, what memory divider are you using to get 1000mhz memory at 3.5? 8x multi?
 
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