Language/Framework Rec for New Build (RoR too much, but Python?)

[stim]

Hey all,

I'm in the initial stages of planning out a new website and I really want to make sure I get the inside scoop on my options when it comes to implementation.

My background includes only rudimentary coding experience, but I do have a few years of SQL and basic HTML/CSS under my belt.

At its core, my project really only requires a text field and submit button on the front end, and then server-side scripts to interpret input and interface with what will hopefully become a large database handling multiple concurrent connections.

I started to explore Python through the MIT OpenCourseWare series, which I would highly recommend for anyone interested in a free, lecture and example-oriented crash course in the language.

After digging around for a while, I caved and started in on a full Ruby on Rails implementation, but after working through a few sample programs it looks like this may be way more than I need. I don't need tons of views, lists, etc etc. I'm not building basecamp or twitter, just something to take an input, run logic and kick out a new string. quick and easy.

Future features could include mining and visualizing the database, as well as browser add-ins.

What do you guys think? Is the magic of python where it's at? Is RoR still an option for such a simple setup? Should I give up my ophidiophilia and skinny-jean wishes for the pragmatic ubiquity of PHP?

 

[HHunt]

You could do it in Python+Django, perhaps? It seemed fairly nice (and well documented) last time I used it.

That said, all frameworks will have some overhead - on the trivial end, it's easier to just bang together some PHP.

 

[ameoba]

If you plan on writing a really simple web app, don't bother with a complicated framework. A lot of frameworks abstract away the DB to the point where your RDBMS is just an object store - the worst of both worlds. Just find something lightweight that abstracts out some of the low-level CGI/wscgi stuff and gives you a good templating engine. I hear a lot of good things about Pylons and web2p - they give you a solid MVC base to work from but don't completely dictate how your whole app should be designed.

Alternately, if you're just getting started, deal with the low-level stuff yourself so you know what's actually going on. Starting from scratch with CGI/wsgi will give you a lean, simple, lightweight app that only does what you need it to. Along the way, you get to learn all the 'magic' that a rich framework provides you with.

 

[monkey_slap]

What do you need to return? Are you saving data to a DB or something? If not, why not just use plain-ol' Javascript? Are you required to use a server-side language? If RoR is too much, then why would you need Python? Javascript can do a lot of work on strings (Regex included!) and works great for simple webapps.

On a side note: thank you for the MIT OpenCourseWare link. I've never heard of that. You just gave me something to do when I run out of work on my coop. I know some python, but this will definitely build me up. Kudos.

 

[HHunt]

If you plan on writing a really simple web app, don't bother with a complicated framework. A lot of frameworks abstract away the DB to the point where your RDBMS is just an object store - the worst of both worlds.

Eh, a decent ORM can be a nice thing to have. If you're just using the DB as a data store for tabular data with some foreign key links, and the queries are simple selects/updates/inserts, you might as well let a framework handle the busywork of writing the actual SQL.

In a project on that kind of scale, it can also make for nice readable code: Using Django and python as an example, it's relaxing to be able to write code like this:

# value__gte=X means "value greater than or equal to X".

# In idiomatic python, with a list comprehension:
owners = [ c.owner for c in  Car.objects.filter(value__gte=100000) ]

# or as a for loop:
owners=[]
for car in Car.objects.filter(value__gte=100000) :
    owners.append(car.owner)

 

[stim]

What do you need to return? Are you saving data to a DB or something? If not, why not just use plain-ol' Javascript? Are you required to use a server-side language? If RoR is too much, then why would you need Python? Javascript can do a lot of work on strings (Regex included!) and works great for simple webapps.

Yea, doing DB checks and updates on each entry. Output for first-attempt program is just new a text string delivered back into the main page. (there's a little AJAX magic, eh?)

On a side note: thank you for the MIT OpenCourseWare link. I've never heard of that. You just gave me something to do when I run out of work on my coop. I know some python, but this will definitely build me up. Kudos.

Yea, definitely check it out. There are a bunch of random classes, but the intro to python course is under "Intro to CS".

Eh, a decent ORM can be a nice thing to have. If you're just using the DB as a data store for tabular data with some foreign key links, and the queries are simple selects/updates/inserts, you might as well let a framework handle the busywork of writing the actual SQL.

Heh. SQL is the one thing I could actually do right out of the box for this.


Allright, gonna dig into Pylons and check around for other lightweight frameworks. I also just found this site for some example code. http://showmedo.com/videotutorials/python (kind of like a free peepcode for python)