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Koolance gone crazy?

T

Top Nurse

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 4, 2003
Messages
7,346
Koolance is now charging close to a $100 bucks for their CPU-305 series waterblocks. The same waterblocks that were $65 a few days ago. :eek: except these are a little thicker to accomodate LGA 775 chips. Oh and they give you all the clamps you need (except if you happen to need one for an Xeon) all in one nice little package :rolleyes:

If you use *anything* other than their coolant your warranty is voided. If you OC your computer they will void your warranty. If you use the product and turn it on they will void your warranty. ;)
 
certainly sounds crazy. OCing voids the warrenty lmao. Perhaps a bit safe, but still that's just funny. w/o OCing you can get a case just as silent as a rad fan pretty much. WCing and not OCing makes 0 sense.

I haven't looked closely at other companies, do they say this too (the OC thing)?

Those prices are insane.
 
w/c without oc'ing can yield very low noise, but that's about it. Either way, I can't imagine them being backed in any reviews with a policy like that. Though, they may be trying to move more mainstream with this, but I doubt they'll get there.
 
If you are going to make statements in public then at least have the common sense to read a companies policies before you make a fool of yourself.

Over clocking does not void your warrantee.

“THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER DAMAGE RESULTING FROM ACCIDENT, MISUSE OR ABUSE, LACK OF REASONABLE CARE, SHIPPING DAMAGE, MODIFICATIONS, THE AFFIXING OF ANY ATTACHMENT NOT PROVIDED WITH THE PRODUCT, OR OPERATING COMPONENTS AT SPEEDS OR FUNCTIONS OTHER THAN THOSE SPECIFIED BY THEIR MANUFACTURERS.”

It clearly stats they are not responsible if YOU SCREW UP YOUR SYSTEM BECAUSE YOU OVER CLOCKED IT.

“Use of unauthorized replacement parts or liquid will void this warranty”

Nowhere does it say you must use their coolant. It says, “approved”, not theirs. Having spoken to them recently they had several suggestions for coolant besides theirs.

The new CPU water block is now rated for 300 watts, the old one, at the old price, is rated at 200 watts. It costs more, if you don’t see the value fine, but at least explain the difference instead of using omissions of truth instead of very biased opinion.

I might add having now had my hands on some AC product; no one touting their products has any room to judge value of any one else’s products.
 
Well I took the part about:

THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER DAMAGE RESULTING FROM ACCIDENT, MISUSE OR ABUSE, LACK OF REASONABLE CARE, SHIPPING DAMAGE, MODIFICATIONS, THE AFFIXING OF ANY ATTACHMENT NOT PROVIDED WITH THE PRODUCT, OR OPERATING COMPONENTS AT SPEEDS OR FUNCTIONS OTHER THAN THOSE SPECIFIED BY THEIR MANUFACTURERS.

So the way I read that is that if you OC the system and you blow your system and as a result your Koolance electronics or system goes your warranty is null and void. With that disclaimer they could also void your warranty on GP if you were known to them to OC your machine. Keep in mind that they didn't say "...those specified by Koolance" what they said was "...THOSE SPECIFIED BY THEIR MANUFACTURERS." Also I have spoken to them several times both by e-mail and by phone and the only thing they will "approve" in writing is their coolant. What they tell you over the phone doesn't mean anything when push comes to shove.

Koolance is not alone in this liquids thing. Innovatek is the same way and they routinely scan for UV dyes on warranty returns.

I'm not throwing stones here and feel free to throw some at Aqua Computer if you like. I certainly have never spared the rod on AC if I thought their products or policies weren't up to the reasonable standards of the community in which they operate.

I have had several Koolance coolers running right next to me. In fact I'm typing on an original Koolance EXOS cooled computer at the moment. I had the original CPU-200 which was rated at 200 watts disipation. Now I have the CPU-300-H06 which is rated at 300 watts, which costs about $65 now. The "new" CPU-305 series doesn't dissipate anymore wattage than the one I have now. :)
 
Top Nurse said:
I had the original CPU-200 which was rated at 200 watts disipation. Now I have the CPU-300-H06 which is rated at 300 watts, which costs about $65 now. The "new" CPU-305 series doesn't dissipate anymore wattage than the one I have now. :)
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That is correct. Why they tout the 300 watt thing for the 305 series is rather dubious to me, since the 300 series as you mentioned, is already rated for 300 watts. The only difference I see between 300 and 305 is base thickness and color of the resin they use for block top.

To charge someone so much extra cash for this "grand innovation" is rediculous.

What they SHOULD do is simply phase out the 300 and sell the 305 at 300 price...
 
It's ironic that although Exos are rated for 400+ watts, and their cpu blocks are 200/300 watts, they have this to say about peltiers:
Koolance said:
21. Can I use peltiers with a Koolance system? ^ Thermoelectric devices in general can bring chip surfaces down a few degrees, but the heat output they produce for this effect is substantially greater than the cooling produced-- from that perspective, we feel that peltiers are horribly inefficient. Nonetheless, using peltiers with Koolance systems is ultimately done at the user's own risk. An alternative method of mounting the CPU cooler would be required because the normal cooler bracket will not fit.
Click to expand...


 "Thermoelectric devices in general can bring chip surfaces down a few degrees, but the heat output they produce for this effect is substantially greater than the cooling produced" Down a few degrees? Try subzero if you can keep the hot side cool enough. And sure, to keep a 100 watt cpu cold you need at least a 200 watt pelt, but if your blocks & units are rated for 300+ watts, then there shouldn't be an issue :rolleyes:. I can understand their point of Koolance has no liability if you use a pelt and get the hot and cold sides mixed up, but they could at least show some more confidence in the specifications they give their products. Oh wait, that "300 watts" is with a temp of 55*C, higher than most people are able to stand with stock air cooling, and way too high for most people when they're using water cooling.


 Koolance has been around in this business for so many years that I just can't see why they haven't upgraded their radiators to copper, took so long to use 120mm fans & bigger tubing for more flow (yet they're still using puny pumps), and I still can't figure out why they gold plate their block bases when copper is cheaper and has more thermal conductivity. With so many all-in-one units gaining market share (TT BigWater, Coolermaster Aquarius, etc.) Koolance better start adapting or they could go the way of the dodo. Then again, if all all-in-one units went away, then we would see more diyers being creative and giving the community more ideas to progress water cooling. As Cathar has stated and as we are seeing currently, waterblock design doesn't have much more room for improvement right now over the G5, sso if more people would go back to making their own blocks & giving new design ideas, we could be getting closer & closer to just a few degrees over ambient temperatures.


 Wow, I just typed & rambled a lot. What was this thread about again?
 
"The Exos-2 is available in black or silver aluminum, both integrating a 700W cooling system."

700 watts, not 400.
 
BillR said:
"The Exos-2 is available in black or silver aluminum, both integrating a 700W cooling system."

700 watts, not 400.
Click to expand...
Where did I say the Exos-2 wasn't "rated" for 700 watts? If an Exos-2 is supposed to be able to handle 700 watts of heat, then why do they say peltiers are not useful, when [H]ard's reviewed of the Wintsch Labs Arctic Web 430 watt peltier/block combo & keep a 3.2EE @ 4.0 under 20*C, while a 3.8 Prescott heated up to 47*C under load on an Exos-2 with a CPU-300. I still don't know why Koolance uses high turbulent, maze style blocks that Koolance claims will not cool peltiers adequately, while for 2 years now we have realized that most of a cpu's heat is transfered right above the die to the waterblock, so cooling the edges of a waterblock has little use for cpus.
 
They gold plate the entire surface of the block because to try to just plate half of it can allow for air to get under the plating and cause corrosion under the plating and cause it to lift...talk about way bad thermal conductivity...

The gold plating is to prevent a galvanic reaction with the copper and alloy parts of the loop...their old blocks used to be straight copper, I'm assuming they found it to be unreliable due to the corrosion.
 
Gold is even more galvanically corrosive to aluminium than copper is.
 
Well maybe it really isn't gold then? I have an EXOS with an aluminum radiator running super coolant and the "gold" plated blocks for a couple of years now and no problems. I wonder if the reason they used gold plating was to provide a better adhesion to the resin plastic molded water casings they use. Maybe the stuff doesn't stick to copper?
 
It's gold, what I said I got directly from Koolance when I was having some issues with a sudden algae growth in my Exos a couple years back.

One of the techs there and I had exchanged several emails and I had asked him why the switch to the gold blocks and about the use of copper blocks (I was doing a review of alternative blocks for the Exos) and I was told that the gold plating lowered the chances of galvanic corrosion between the blocks and the rad...

Accordingly about the only block you can use with the Koolance rigs would be the Zalman WB-2 although it will still nullify your warranty.

After doing a bit of research the best (safest) material to coat a copper block with would be zink if it weren't for the fact the zink would get eaten by the copper...there's just no winning is there?
 
The new 305 block comes with more cpu brackets now, it comes with the brackets for S478, S462, S775, S754/939. But still, I think the price is alittle too high.
 
madmat said:
After doing a bit of research the best (safest) material to coat a copper block with would be zink if it weren't for the fact the zink would get eaten by the copper...there's just no winning is there?
Click to expand...

No winning? How about just using a copper/red-brass cored radiator?
 
I mean no winning with the way they have it ATM...I just wonder though, since gold gives off no oxides in water or steam if it would in fact have to be in direct contact with the aluminum for the galvanic corrosion to be a consideration...
 
madmat said:
I mean no winning with the way they have it ATM...I just wonder though, since gold gives off no oxides in water or steam if it would in fact have to be in direct contact with the aluminum for the galvanic corrosion to be a consideration...
Click to expand...

Your conception of galvanic corrosion is a little skewed. Oxides would be a product, not reactant; gold's "inert" (non-oxidizing) nature in air or water doesn't say much about its galvanic properties. The galvanic potential between two different metals, across a solution, can still cause a corrosion reaction. As Cathar said, there is actually agreater galvanic potential between gold and aluminum than copper and aluminum. It's no wonder Koolance voids warranty if you don't use specific fluids.
 
Those are both great, but, what about their properties in flowing Freshwater since I'm pretty certain most of us avoid adding salt to our loops especially considering it's effect in creating corrosion.

None of the reference materials I looked at last night bothered to mention freshwater other than in humidity and one I ran across aimed at builders talked about it for flashing (no not with raincoats) and gutters but they only covered materials common to those trades: Copper, Aluminum, Stainless Steel, Composites, Brass, Etc.
 
Sure there is. It's a little thicker so you can put them on the Intel sockets without adding a spacer. That's gotta be worth an extra $40 right? :rolleyes:
 
Top Nurse said:
Sure there is. It's a little thicker so you can put them on the Intel sockets without adding a spacer. That's gotta be worth an extra $40 right? :rolleyes:
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haha...exactly
 
IMHO Koolance is pricing themselves right out of the market they pioneered. Too bad, but that's competition. :D
 
Top Nurse said:
IMHO Koolance is pricing themselves right out of the market they pioneered. Too bad, but that's competition. :D
Click to expand...
yep they are shooting themselves in the foot
 
the reason for the cost increase is that we have increased the amount of copper in the construction as well as included the adapters for every CPU on the market aside from the Xeons. this cooler also performs a bit better on teh LGA775 processors as there is no need for the spacer/multiple layers of thermal compound. :)
 
Ctrl_Alt_Delete said:
the reason for the cost increase is that we have increased the amount of copper in the construction as well as included the adapters for every CPU on the market aside from the Xeons. this cooler also performs a bit better on teh LGA775 processors as there is no need for the spacer/multiple layers of thermal compound. :)
Click to expand...

Well that makes it easy for your logistics to give everyone something they don't need, but why charge the customer? What is the cost of the extra copper, maybe $1 to $2? Now if you guys had gone to a clear replacable top that was bolted down I might see my way to getting one.
 
the reason for the increase in price is the inclusion of adapters for every CPU on the market bar the Xeons as well as the use of more copper. the 305 performs better on the LGA775 chips as well due to removing the spacer/multiple layers of thermal compound. besides dosent it just look cool with that smoked top and the gold plating? BTW the gold makes a huge difference when you are using an aluminum radiator. copper&aluminum+H2O=nasty coolant in no time flat. gold&aluminum+H2O=cooling bliss :p
 
That's why you use copper radiators/heater cores :p
The higher prices don't really bother me because I'm not looking at getting one anytime soon, but I can see a lot of people who want a simple loop simply buying an AI kit for about 1/2 the price of an Exos2 + 305 :rolleyes:
 
copper radiators are made from copper alloys not pure copper like our blocks. copper alone will corrode and foul much quicker than aluminum. attaching aluminum fins to aluminum pipes yeilds a much better thermal transfer than copper fins to copper pipes. copper tarnishes and turns color much faster than aluminum.
copper radiators are ok for DIY stuff, but when you move into the pro arena and need constant uptime without flushing coolant every 6 months (we do rackmount too) aluminum rads are the way to go.
 
everyone has their own preference. all i can say is that these things are moving faster than we can keep em in stock. i guess they arent too expensive then.
 
Ctrl_Alt_Delete said:
copper radiators are made from copper alloys not pure copper like our blocks. copper alone will corrode and foul much quicker than aluminum. attaching aluminum fins to aluminum pipes yeilds a much better thermal transfer than copper fins to copper pipes. copper tarnishes and turns color much faster than aluminum.
copper radiators are ok for DIY stuff, but when you move into the pro arena and need constant uptime without flushing coolant every 6 months (we do rackmount too) aluminum rads are the way to go.
Click to expand...

Any empirical info on this, links??
 
Ctrl_Alt_Delete said:
everyone has their own preference. all i can say is that these things are moving faster than we can keep em in stock. i guess they arent too expensive then.
Click to expand...


That right there is why they cost so much. LOL. Take an old block, spit on it to make it shine all purty an stuff and watch people beat a path to your door.

The proverbial "lipstick on a pig." :rolleyes:
 
plywood99 said:
Any empirical info on this, links??
Click to expand...


No, because there is none. There's a whole Cu-vs-Al can of worms that needs not be opened. As far as the copper/brass thing (brass being the copper alloy that he referred to), copper and brass are perfectly happy living together in water and will not cause galvanic corrosion. Tarnishing is much different than galvanic corrosion. Aluminum tarnishes too, it's just a thin layer of oxide that doesn't look ugly compared to copper's nasty-looking greenish oxide.
 
Ctrl_Alt_Delete said:
copper radiators are made from copper alloys not pure copper like our blocks. copper alone will corrode and foul much quicker than aluminum. attaching aluminum fins to aluminum pipes yeilds a much better thermal transfer than copper fins to copper pipes. copper tarnishes and turns color much faster than aluminum.
copper radiators are ok for DIY stuff, but when you move into the pro arena and need constant uptime without flushing coolant every 6 months (we do rackmount too) aluminum rads are the way to go.
Click to expand...
bullsh*t
 
All I want to say is my Exos-2 I just setup is great, much better than I thought after reading some forums. I have a P4 550@4.00 GHz and a EVGA 7800GTX and the temp never goes over 34 -38 C at full load. And that is on fan setting 5 or 6. Almost silent.
 
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