Kimera Industries Cerberus: The 18L, mATX, USA-made enclosure

[veryrarium]

The vent hole pattern on the panel is positioned to roughly line up with the holes on the top panel. There isn't anything at the front end of the rad bracket that needs venting.

I see the idea behind the decision now. I thought the misalignment between the left (right?) side vents and bracket cutout may not look good in reality with some portion of the bracket surface showing up through the back portion of the vents, but due to the hinge taking some space shifting the bracket cutout backward would leave only a very thin vertical strip of metal in the back side portion of the bracket, so that is not good, I guess.

1 The hinges I plan to use are high quality precision made stuff so I don't anticipate any issues there but that's what prototypes are for. If it turns out to be wobbly I'll drop it and go for screws on both ends.

2 It's not modeled but the plan is for the top and bottom of that piece to have a flange bent over 180 to stiffen the rail.

3 That's why the bracket is bent on each end. Sheet metal relies on perpendicular bends for strength, a flat piece of metal isn't that strong but with the careful placement of flanges it can support plenty of weight. But again, I'm using the prototype to test stuff like this.

Great to know these things have been thoroughly thought out. More reason to like your project!

 

[Aibohphobia]

Got the workbench for my eventual office built today, still need to undo some screws and take a hammer to it to get it level though

Here's what I came up with for the vents for the prototype. Not the prettiest but I needed a simple pattern that would be easy for the laser to cut:

SketchFab: https://skfb.ly/BFL6


Necere, you may be interested in this program: Visualizer

It's a rendering plugin for SketchUp that lets you have a window open that acts as a "camera" into the scene, rendering a image that updates as you work. I haven't tested it much yet but for $20 it seems pretty useful.

 

[Necere]

Necere, you may be interested in this program: Visualizer

It's a rendering plugin for SketchUp that lets you have a window open that acts as a "camera" into the scene, rendering a image that updates as you work. I haven't tested it much yet but for $20 it seems pretty useful.

Interesting, though not likely to replace Octane for me anytime soon, considering I bought a license for it

 

[Aibohphobia]

Octane looks interesting since it uses CUDA. Too bad it's so expensive.

I'm waiting for Indigo Renderer to add their GPU only mode. With dual 980s it should be 22x samples/second over my i7 4771

 

[backfeed]

I modified a EVGA SC ACX rom back to stock power/clock settings so I could just get the semi-passive fan profile and it works

Idles at 44-47°C and thermogram looks good

Nice. What's the temperature of the gpu itself, according to the internal temperature sensor of the card?

Here's what I came up with for the vents for the prototype. Not the prettiest but I needed a simple pattern that would be easy for the laser to cut

The slots look ok. Should provide less air flow resistance as well.

But what happened to the front usb ports?

 

[Aibohphobia]

Nice. What's the temperature of the gpu itself, according to the internal temperature sensor of the card?

The 44-47°C temps are from the sensor.

The slots look ok. Should provide less air flow resistance as well.

It's really not that bad, I could probably live with it on the production model if need be.

But what happened to the front usb ports?

Trying to cut costs on the prototype, I can't use them anyway since the bottom video card is in the way on the EVGA X99 Micro

Got the revised quote today and unfortunately even with the simplifications I did it only shaved $350 off the quote, so it would be $7790

I'm going to get in touch with one or two more manufacturers but if I keep getting quotes like these I'll have to do some serious changes to optimize the design.

 

[rawrr]

I really like the clean, angular design of the case.

Unfortunately, micro atx isn't for me, but if there was a smaller mini itx case with this design I'd love it!

 

[Aibohphobia]

Need to get this design made first but I have a whole family of case designs in mind: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040857144&postcount=259

 

[rawrr]

You should come up with some kind of branding lol.

Yeah the itx one is pretty nice, nice volume too for its layout and psu support!

 

[Aibohphobia]

I'm the worst at coming up with names but tentatively I'm thinking Nova for the mATX, MiniNova for the ITX, and SuperNova for the water cooled mATX.

Next is company name but I've been scratching my head on that for a few weeks now. The main problem is finding a good name that also has the domain available which is hard.

Edit: Was thinking Pulsar for the NAS. Not sure on possible Steambox design.

 

[veryrarium]

Have you talked to loneindustries about getting your prototype made and/or small quantity production?
I really hope you don't have to sacrifice the features you have elaborated for the sake of cutting cost...
I wish a company like Jonsbo could manufacture this case for you. (or Lian Li, of course, but you're going with steel, and they haven't done steel cases under LanCool for quite some time now)
Or maybe Anidees who's asking if anyone has an interesting project and wants to work with them...

Next is company name but I've been scratching my head on that for a few weeks now. The main problem is finding a good name that also has the domain available which is hard.

umm...why not Aibohphobia?

 

[Aibohphobia]

That Anidees company looks interesting but I'm wanting to get this manufactured in the USA.

Does Lone Industries make the cases himself? I thought he had a shop making them for him, but I haven't kept up with the thread.

Aibohphobia.com is taken and it's not really suited for a company name, it doesn't speak anything about what the company does or makes and sometimes even I mess up the spelling

 

[rawrr]

I think Lone gets a shop to make them for him. You could go to him for advice.

 

[backfeed]

The 44-47°C temps are from the sensor.

Ah, now I get it. That's really good!

Trying to cut costs on the prototype, I can't use them anyway since the bottom video card is in the way on the EVGA X99 Micro

Derp!

Got the revised quote today and unfortunately even with the simplifications I did it only shaved $350 off the quote, so it would be $7790

I'm going to get in touch with one or two more manufacturers but if I keep getting quotes like these I'll have to do some serious changes to optimize the design.

Yowza. Crowdfunding?

 

[Aibohphobia]

Yowza. Crowdfunding?

Good timing, was just about to post an update

The rep from Protocase just got back to me a few hours ago and apparently the quote was so high because someone misplaced a decimal somewhere in the calculation

The corrected quote is $2800

Need to hammer out some details but everything is back on track

 

[veryrarium]

Hmm... that's still quite expensive isn't it? M1 prototype was $2,000, correct?
I'm a bit scared how the price for the final product will turn out to be, considering this will most likely be a much smaller quantity production than M1.

 

[backfeed]

Good timing, was just about to post an update

The rep from Protocase just got back to me a few hours ago and apparently the quote was so high because someone misplaced a decimal somewhere in the calculation

The corrected quote is $2800

Need to hammer out some details but everything is back on track

Haha. A little weird that they didn't catch this mistake right away though; should be fairly obvious to them that it was a miscalculation, I mean? Well well. Hoping that their manufacturing competence is better than their maths.

Still... crowdfunding?

 

[Aibohphobia]

Hmm... that's still quite expensive isn't it? M1 prototype was $2,000, correct?
I'm a bit scared how the price for the final product will turn out to be, considering this will most likely be a much smaller quantity production than M1.

It's $1592 for the prototype, $70 setup fee (whatever that is), and $1120 design services fee.

It'll probably be somewhere between the M1 and the Compact Splash in price for the production run.

Haha. A little weird that they didn't catch this mistake right away though; should be fairly obvious to them that it was a miscalculation, I mean? Well well. Hoping that their manufacturing competence is better than their maths.

Still... crowdfunding?

It is odd but at least they didn't crash a 125 million dollar satellite into Mars

Here's two examples of computers cases they've built:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/making-a-custom-pc-enclosure-with-protocase,1912.html

http://www.boxgods.com/dept/modding/index.php?Action=Article&ID=221

This quote is what I was originally expecting so I'm not going to bother with crowdfunding at this point. I can afford this so I'll just keep things rolling.

 

[veryrarium]

Somewhere between the M1 and the Compact Splash? That would be fine with me, I'm relieved to hear that.
By the way I haven't asked this which I should have, I kinda took it for granted...do you ship your product overseas?

By the way some people had already expressed their color preference so I might as well do that too, though I don't know if it matters at this stage. I like (in order of preference) 1) titanium or gunmetal grey or whatever it's called, the color used on the outer panels of Silverstone FT03T/TJ08T-E 2) red 3) silver.

Are you also working with Christa, the same engineer as in those two links?

 

[Aibohphobia]

My plan is to find a shop in the New Jersey area with delivery trucks for the production run so they can load up the cases and drive them over to Fulfillrite. They're a fulfillment center that specializes in smaller customers and they ship all over the world.

The initial run will probably be just black to keep things simple. I'd like to do a real Titanium edition at some point

I'm working with a Kim, I'm not sure how many reps they have there.

 

[rawrr]

Actual titanium? That would be pricey...

 

[Aibohphobia]

The raw material cost is about 2-2.5 times steel but the cutting and forming is pretty much the same.

I'm just tired of seeing Titanium edition and Ti versions of everything but they aren't actually made of titanium

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

The raw material cost is about 2-2.5 times steel but the cutting and forming is pretty much the same.

I'm just tired of seeing Titanium edition and Ti versions of everything but they aren't actually made of titanium

I would have guessed closer to 10x to use actual titanium! I wonder how that would look.

Are there any meaningful cost differences between different colors (not materials - I mean black vs red vs grey, etc) that we know of yet?

 

[Aibohphobia]

I would have guessed closer to 10x to use actual titanium. I wonder how that would look.

Are there any meaningful cost differences between different colors (not materials - I mean black vs red vs great, etc) that we know of yet?

I don't think there's much difference in the cost of the colors as far as the actual powder is concerned (for standard colors, exotic multi-color stuff is pricey).

The problem is minimum order quantities. It's more cost-effective to get 200 cases in black than 50 in red, 50 in black, 50 in blue, 50 in white, or something.

The other issue is case variations, like a no handle mount top panel. With just black that's two different SKUs, not too bad. With 4 colors now there are 8 SKUs, and it just gets worse the more colors and case variations you add.

 

[AFD]

I'd like to do a real Titanium edition at some point

Now that would be something sweet!


Can't imagine the price, though. Most $1,000 custom stainless exhaust systems cost ~$4,000 to $6,000 for the same design in Ti.. it's supposed to be a more difficult material to work with.

Would be so rad, though. Especially, if you do an electrically burnt Ti finish to match my shift knob..

 

[Aibohphobia]

They're probably using aerospace grade titanium, I'd just go with normal grade titanium which can be worked about the same as steel.

Woohoo, just sent off the email giving the go ahead to get started on the prototype

 

[backfeed]

Most $1,000 custom stainless exhaust systems cost ~$4,000 to $6,000 for the same design in Ti.. it's supposed to be a more difficult material to work with.

I guess it's because they require welding, and perhaps that's a lot more complicated with titanium?

Woohoo, just sent off the email giving the go ahead to get started on the prototype

Cool! Will be fun to see the result!

 

[AFD]

I guess it's because they require welding, and perhaps that's a lot more complicated with titanium?

Mostly, yes. The one shop I spoke with said that only one of their welders was able to work with titanium. But it's very likely that cutting and bending Ti is more difficult than with steel or aluminum.

As Aiboh mentioned, it should be easier to work with a lower grade (the shift knobs above are Grade-5).

 

[PlayfulPhoenix]

Any idea when you'll be getting the prototype delivered to you? No rush, obviously, just curious.

 

[Aibohphobia]

Before Christmas?

I now know why there can be such a large lag time between product announcement and release. There's a lot of time spent going back and forth making sure everything is correct. Sometimes I'm busy at work and can't break away to respond to a question for a few hours, by which time they're closed for the day so I don't get a response till the next morning. Things like that have made it a slow process.

One big sticking point was that I use SketchUp, which is easy to use but it's not a solid modeler so getting the model from it to something useful is not easy. I believe when it came time during the M1's development Wahaha360 had to just use Necere's SketchUp file as reference and completely recreate it in SolidWorks from scratch.

Luckily I managed to convert the model myself so that shaved quite a bit off the design service fee, from $1120 down to $480

I went back to the vent holes instead of slots (though I'll still omit the vents on the back side panel) so that brought the prototype price up to $2007.

Adding the setup fee of $70 brings the current quote to $2557 shipped.

I have two details I need to clarify tomorrow and then the engineer will start in on finalizing the design. That process may take week or two depending on how many changes will need to be done.

Luckily once the design part is done it should only take 2-3 days to actually manufacture the prototype.

 

[theGryphon]

Sounds good brother! I'm happy you went back to the vent holes! The ones at the back were really unnecessary. I don't know why any case manufacturer puts vent holes instead of a blank cutout... I can't think of any reason but to stupid-proof it against fingers...

I can't wait to see the case in action! I hope to be able to do a build by next summer, but if I have order your case earlier, I will

 

[Aibohphobia]

Hey Gryphon! Nice to see you in this thread again

I'm tentatively hoping for a first production run in February/March. I'll need time to test different configurations with the prototype and considering how long it's taking just to get the prototype made I'm sure I'm in for a few weeks of back and forth in the ramp up to production too.

 

[backfeed]

I went back to the vent holes instead of slots (though I'll still omit the vents on the back side panel)

Ah. What about the front usb ports, and the vents in the bottom of the case?

 

[Aibohphobia]

I still left off the front USB. I can't use them and I couldn't find a suitable off the shelf part.

I'll need something custom for the production run so that would mean redesigning the front cutout anyway so I won't bother on the prototype.

All the vents are back to the original design except I left them off entirely on the back side panel. Interestingly they will be cut on a water jet cutter, not a laser.

Edit: Got those details noted and the engineer will start in on the case. Hopefully I'll get the first set of drawings early next week.

 

[backfeed]

Ok, so there will ultimately be (some kind of) usb ports on the final product if I understand you correctly?

I've already asked for a handle-less top panel variant before, but to make it even more complicated (I bet you love that ), could there be a possibility to make a solid unvented side panel variant available as well?

Why? Well, I'm having weird and wonderful ideas on how to silence the case as much as possible, and one noise "source" (or rather "conduit" perhaps) will undoubtedly be the side vents. But sure, I could just cover them up somehow instead.

Oh, and as a bonus, there'll be one less air intake that needs a dust filter (plus, that's the only filter that would require opening up the case to get to; I'd be happy not having to do that). I'm aiming for both low maintenance and low noise.

 

[backfeed]

Also, I don't remember me or anybody else asking about it (though I may well be slightly senile), but what about case feet? Going for the same joystick feet used on the M1?

 

[Aibohphobia]

Ok, so there will ultimately be (some kind of) usb ports on the final product if I understand you correctly?

That's the plan

I've already asked for a handle-less top panel variant before, but to make it even more complicated (I bet you love that ), could there be a possibility to make a solid unvented side panel variant available as well?

That's unlikely. I'm considering the top panel because I'm sure there will be a sizable number of people who want the case for its size but don't plan on transporting it anywhere.

I don't think there will be many people who will want to compromise the CPU cooling by not having the side panel vented, you're an edge case

Also, I don't remember me or anybody else asking about it (though I may well be slightly senile), but what about case feet? Going for the same joystick feet used on the M1?

I was going to originally but in order to shift the front feet back so they don't get in the way of a front dust filter I had to go with 35mm diameter feet instead of the 40mm ones like on the M1.


I asked for some paint chips from Protocase so I could decide on the frame color because they have 3 different black powder coat colors they offer. I was expecting just some scrap piece of metal but they really don't joke around on either the paint chips or shipping:

Was sent out Tuesday and I received it today, from Canada! They even threw in a nice keychain

 

[theGryphon]

Nice!

Black Sandtex or Matte Black
I don't know how the texture feels but I think I'm inclined towards the former...

 

[Aibohphobia]

The Sandtex will be great for the handle (the texture is grippier but not so aggressive that's it'd be uncomfortable on a handle) but I don't really like it for the frame.

The Jet Black is glossier than the matte but it's not too bad and it's a noticeably deeper black than the matte.

Ideally I'd like a rich, deep black that was completely matte but still smooth but I don't know if that's doable with powder coat.

 

[backfeed]

That's the plan

Phew!

I'm considering the top panel because I'm sure there will be a sizable number of people who want the case for its size but don't plan on transporting it anywhere.

Yup, the only transporting I'd be doing is between a desktop and a workbench.

I don't think there will be many people who will want to compromise the CPU cooling by not having the side panel vented, you're an edge case

Noooooooooooo

Yeah, I know.

Wouldn't really be compromising it though; might e.g. put an AIO radiator in the bottom of the case (if I'll only be using a single graphics card). But I'll just simply cover up the side vents somehow, if I decide to take that route.

I was going to originally but in order to shift the front feet back so they don't get in the way of a front dust filter I had to go with 35mm diameter feet instead of the 40mm ones like on the M1.

Ah. It's the same design, IIRC? Will be nice.

I asked for some paint chips from Protocase so I could decide on the frame color because they have 3 different black powder coat colors they offer. I was expecting just some scrap piece of metal but they really don't joke around on either the paint chips or shipping

Was sent out Tuesday and I received it today, from Canada! They even threw in a nice keychain

Protocase seems to be a really good company.

I suspect "Sandtex" means that it's sandpaper-like? Streacom use a sandpaper-like coating on their black cases, of which I have one. It's horrible. Attracts dust like a magnet, and is practically impossible to clean without leaving residue. It's the only thing I hate with Streacom's cases. If "Sandtex" is the same, I want to pull a veto (because I somehow have a right to do that... I hope... )!