keyboard/mouse vs controller for first person shooters

D

Dome

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
Messages
2,096
many consider this issue to be a dead horse, but i'm pulling out my beating stick anyway. i keep hearing about pc games say they'll never use a controller for fps. i used to be one of them. however since my desktop got old and broke and i got a 360, i play all my fps w/ a controller. i still miss my cs:s and can't see myself using a controller for it, i agree w/ other who post that fps now don't require twitch accuracy to play.

so hopefully w/out too much flaming, what do you guys think about the fps games coming out now? are they universally moving away from the kb/m b/c of all the money in consoles? or do you think the days of rail guns and awp-whores who get milliseconds to get their kills are coming to an end?

i feel like the two main reasons are casual games and better co-op story modes. while i still miss getting steam and playing cs:s (and i used to play ALL the time) i was never that good; definately not good enough to be competetive. so while i like to play and win, it was more fun for me to play w/ people i knew etc. i believe that co-op allows me to do that. i can get with a friend and play through a couple levels of vegas, or halo, or whatever and enjoy myself as much as when i was trying to twitch out that headshot.

anyhow i need to stop rambling and go back to work...anyhow what do you guys think?
 
Having just finished Resistance on my PS3, I have to say: while it wasn't *quite* as bad as I thought, 90% of the difficulty of the game was with the controls. I guess I am just too used to my keyboard and mouse, but I kept thinking how much easier it would be to play with that.

What I don't understand is why we can't have the option of both. With the new generation of consoles basically PCs already (with USB ports and such) it seems like a trivial matter to make it an option. I am speaking mostly about single player. I have hear arguments for not allowing Kb/M in multiplayer on consoles because it would make people with them so much better. I kinda agree with this, but it is a problem that could easily be solved with server filters and such.
 
Why can't we have both? Because controllers cost $50 a peice x 4 = nice profit. :cool:

More of a 360 thing though but M$ was really smart/mean depending on how you look at the available accessories. Rechargable batteries, 2 different chargers, wireless headsets, cameras, steering wheels, wireless net adapters, chatboards, and etc.
 
I don't want to play games with auto-aim and that is what consoles do to counter effect the poor ability of control with a gamepad in FPS. I have, and always will, only buy FPS's for the PC even though I do have a PS3. I found even Oblivion very awkward to play on the 360 because of the gamepad control. No thanks.
 
First game that truely showed me that mouse and keyboard pwn a controller was GTA III on PC. Playing on the PS1 or 2, I forget, I was all over the place trying to shoot people (and cops lol) in the face. When I got the port for PC half a year later it was like night and day. So much more control with a M&KB.
 
While I agree with server filters, it's just not going to happen. Especially with how FPS's are handled on the console atm.

This is another area I think PC's have a huge advantage. You can actually select what game you want to play against who, and where you want to play it vs the console style matchmaking which forces you to play games you don't want to play on servers you probably wouldn't normally play due to lag. After finally giving into a friend on trying Halo 3, all I found was that almost every single map, it got vetoed. But I digress.

Apparently UT3 has a server filter, but due to the controller factor, the gameplay is 20% slower than the PC. That's another thing I found, is that twitch games are non existant on the console. Halo 3 makes CoD feel like a speed demon, and half the people I know who dislike CoD, it's because the game moves at a snails pace.

And then there are lack of buttons. On the console, you can't do certain things such as lean. The game needs to be simplified because of the controller.

Controllers have their place, and I won't deny that. I just don't think that FPS's are one of them.
 
Mouse / Keyboard all the way. Playing with a controller is weak, your aiming is so bad that the console games give you a slight auto aimer if you're around the hitbox. If you pit a console gamer with a controller against a keyboard and mouse user, more often than not, the keyboard / mouse combo will come out triumphant.
 
milkweg said:
I don't want to play games with auto-aim and that is what consoles do to counter effect the poor ability of control with a gamepad in FPS. I have, and always will, only buy FPS's for the PC even though I do have a PS3. I found even Oblivion very awkward to play on the 360 because of the gamepad control. No thanks.
Click to expand...

I agree, I think console shooters are specifically designed around the controller whether it's with aim assists, or slower gameplay, or on-rails gameplay like in GoW. It's not just the controller that's different it's the games themselves, not to mention sitting on the sofa vs. at a desk, so it's hard to simply compare the controllers.
Personally I can't stand it when the controller gets in the way of the gameplay, so i'll always prefer kb/m for shooters. Of course the popularity of consoles means it's PC gamers who get shafted by poor ports of games designed for consoles, rather than the other way round.
 
i don't disagree w/ most of the people here who say that controller fps < kb/m. and that its dumbed down, but i mean, the whole point of console gaming is to dum everything down amirite? no patches (well) no hardware requirements, fewer buttons etc.

do you think though that the twitch-fps hardcore diehard games are benefiting or suffering from the move? i understand they're hurting from the developers leaving pc for console, but aren't you benefiting from fewer morons?
 
UT3 on PS3 has M&KB support. I don't see why they can't do the same for other FPS games coming to the PS3. Epic put in a nice MP filter to search for games that are controllers only, mixed or keyboard only. Problem solved.
 
Dome said:
do you think though that the twitch-fps hardcore diehard games are benefiting or suffering from the move? i understand they're hurting from the developers leaving pc for console, but aren't you benefiting from fewer morons?
Click to expand...

No, because the devs are making less games since all of the morons (A.K.A. players) aren't buying the hardcore games since they're switching to consoles. That's why a ton of companies have shifted their focus to console games recently; that's where the money is now. Just take a look at the sales figures for CoD4 on consoles vs. on PC.
 
^ So true.. oh well, maybe we can live through this little downturn and hopefully pc gaming can pick up again, other than MMORPG's (ie. WoW).
 
Oh no... not this again.

Let me just say this: Unreal Tournament 3 cemented it. I have been playing tons of matches on PS3 and have seen no difference in skill between players using keyboards and players using gamepads. I am using a gamepad and can routinely beat people using keyboards.
 
Playing an FPS with a controller when you could have a kb/m is kinda like driving a sports car with no tires, sure the sparks are pretty but you're not really going anywhere...sorry couldn't think of anything more witty :>
 
This discussion never goes anywhere. Play with what you like and disregard what anyone else has to say.
I'm sure you'll see the phrases "dumbing down" and "intended for" numerous times, but what-evs.
Play with what you enjoy and focus on getting better at the game, not stressing over what people on here think.
 
I don't mind that some people prefer using controllers, but 360 and ps3 both have usb ports on them now, why don't they just build m/kb support into every game. I would set up a desk or table of some kind in front of my tv and put a kb/mouse on there and love it. I've gone through halo 1, gears of war (multiple times), and a bunch of other consoles fps games, and it's ok, but mouse and keyboard is soooo much more comfortable and accurate for me.
 
Baker said:
UT3 on PS3 has M&KB support. I don't see why they can't do the same for other FPS games coming to the PS3. Epic put in a nice MP filter to search for games that are controllers only, mixed or keyboard only. Problem solved.
Click to expand...

I've said this before in this forum and I will say it again. How is one going to use a mouse and keyboard on a console when you need a desk to place the mouse and keyboard on? That will only work for people who use their computer monitor for their console. Most people use their console in their living room on their HDTV so they can sit in the comfort of their couch while gaming. I love playing sports games from the comfort of my couch on the PS3, just not FPS games, or racing games, or flight games, or strategy games. Well, the PS3 has no real strat games yet so that is a purely academic argument.
 
milkweg said:
I've said this before in this forum and I will say it again. How is one going to use a mouse and keyboard on a console when you need a desk to place the mouse and keyboard on? That will only work for people who use their computer monitor for their console. Most people use their console in their living room on their HDTV so they can sit in the comfort of their couch while gaming. I love playing sports games from the comfort of my couch on the PS3, just not FPS games, or racing games, or flight games, or strategy games. Well, the PS3 has no real strat games yet so that is a purely academic argument.
Click to expand...

While I'm a proponent of playing with whatever you like, it's painfully easy to set up a keyboard/mouse set-up with tray tables. I played through the PC versions Bioshock, Crysis, and UT3 on my couch while running everything on my TV.
 
milkweg said:
I've said this before in this forum and I will say it again. How is one going to use a mouse and keyboard on a console when you need a desk to place the mouse and keyboard on? That will only work for people who use their computer monitor for their console. Most people use their console in their living room on their HDTV so they can sit in the comfort of their couch while gaming. I love playing sports games from the comfort of my couch on the PS3, just not FPS games, or racing games, or flight games, or strategy games. Well, the PS3 has no real strat games yet so that is a purely academic argument.
Click to expand...

Buy a TV tray. Problem solved.
 
even if i'm comfortable shooting w/ a controller, i still believe that kb/m offers better control and versatility. while i understand it'd be a lot more work, i think kb/m support should be part of most games. even if i'm going to be lazy and play in bed, doesn't mean i wouldn't ever want to set it up w/ a tray stand
 
I honestly can't stand reticle shooter games with controllers. Some people are decent with it but I don't think anything beats the accuracy and options of the mouse/keyboard combo. On the other hand, controllers are great for adventure, fighting and 3rd person slashers.
 
Domingo said:
While I'm a proponent of playing with whatever you like, it's painfully easy to set up a keyboard/mouse set-up with tray tables. I played through the PC versions Bioshock, Crysis, and UT3 on my couch while running everything on my TV.
Click to expand...

Are you ten feet tall or something? A TV tray is too high when sitting on a couch and is not sturdy enough either. Sure, you could fashion some ghetto mod that would work but why do that when you can just play on a PC at a proper desk in a proper office style chair instead?
 
I always used to play games on the Playstation/2 with my little brother. It was excellent and Quake II was the fastest game on the planet, until someone showed me games could be played on the PC. I got BF1942, and despite not actually being able to play it properly because of some wanky integrated 2D intel graphics and dialup, it was pretty apparent that keyboards/mice were much better.

I got a 360 recently, and Vegas 2. There's a reason most console FPS have had a lock-on feature - it's a proper bastard trying to find the right balance between sensitive-enough-to-not-get-bummed-by-someone-sneaking-up-on-you, and so-sensitive-you-keep-fucking-scrolling-over-them.

I heard some noise about a KB/Mouse attachment for the 360. I hope it's true.
 
Wally said:
I got a 360 recently, and Vegas 2. There's a reason most console FPS have had a lock-on feature - it's a proper bastard trying to find the right balance between sensitive-enough-to-not-get-bummed-by-someone-sneaking-up-on-you, and so-sensitive-you-keep-fucking-scrolling-over-them.
Click to expand...

This is why any game made for a console has heavy control acceleration to allow quicker turns with quicker flicks of the analogue stick, the really irritating thing is developers can't work out that it's totally unnecessary for PC users and in fact quite a burden for some gamers, It completely ruined Bioshock for me.
 
Someone on the forum mentioned this a while ago, that a keyboard and mouse, while technically superior just don't seem like the 'next-step' in controls to many people. If you look at it, its a big keyboard, and a mouse. compared to a controller, aesthetically it just looks bulky. and it has a learning curve to play well with it. so people aren't going to be too keen on using it no matter how good it is.

i like to think of keyboard/mouse setup in programming terms. k/b/mouse being assembly language, a controller being C++ :p
 
milkweg said:
Are you ten feet tall or something? A TV tray is too high when sitting on a couch and is not sturdy enough either. Sure, you could fashion some ghetto mod that would work but why do that when you can just play on a PC at a proper desk in a proper office style chair instead?
Click to expand...

I'm using a pair of these: http://www.tablemate.com/scripts/cg...te/itemdetl.html?item=4-TBL2-1227&src=ADW8000

I got 'em on sale for $15 each at Linen's N Things. Works just fine.
Thing is, I agree with some of the others about not wanting something that bulky all the time, too.
With some games, I'll just play them with a pad. Not every game is Counter Strike and is focused on pinpoint precision above everything else. For games like Oblivion, and Bioshock, I'd swap off to a pad pretty often depending on how lazy I am. For stuff like Unreal Tournament, a pad is fine, too. Unless you're playing a game where everything is reliant on headshots, I feel fine using either.
There's no way to "relax" while gaming with a mouse/KB. I can play my consoles while completely laying down.

Also, I've been saying it for years but the keyboard is really the weakness in PC gaming. People just took a typewriter pad and decided to use it to game with out of necessity. Unless you're using some kind of special controller, I really doubt the guy who invented they typewriter intended for people to be moving around with his WASD keys. On most keyboards, they aren't even aligned. Anything with a buttload of buttons would work just as well. At least a pad was created with gaming in mind. Lets not forget the lack of ergonomics and analog control. Most PC gamers are just using a "normal" keyboard, so unless you're using some kind of item like the Fang or a gaming specific keyboard layout - you're actually one of the people using something that wasn't intended for gaming...not the gamepad user.
 
I just cannot see anyone who uses both to pick controller over mouse and keyboard. M/KB combo is quicker, more accurate, and more versatile.
 
Master Blaster said:
I just cannot see anyone who uses both to pick controller over mouse and keyboard. M/KB combo is quicker, more accurate, and more versatile.
Click to expand...

Can you play it while laying down? What if you don't feel like having everything spread out in front of you? What if you don't want to keep your hands flat in front of you? What if using your thumb is easier than using your fingertips for movement. Everything for a pad is right there in your hands and you're only using your thumb and forefingers. You don't have to have everything spread out like the flight deck of the Enterprise.
It's not as versatile, but it's easier.
 
Master Blaster said:
I just cannot see anyone who uses both to pick controller over mouse and keyboard. M/KB combo is quicker, more accurate, and more versatile.
Click to expand...

Agreed , Keyboard and Mouse will always be better, I dont care what all these Halo fanboys say.
 
Whether its 'better' or not is subjective from person to person. No doubt it allows for more precise controls. but that's it. That's the only strength of the keyboard/mouse setup over a controller.
 
damonposey said:
Whether its 'better' or not is subjective from person to person. No doubt it allows for more precise controls. but that's it. That's the only strength of the keyboard/mouse setup over a controller.
Click to expand...

Well, better control is generally the goal of a controller.
 
Well, a controller offers a lot more precise movement. It after all offers 100% analog movement rather than quick tapping like a keyboard. You're also able to handle every function needed using only both thumbs and forefingers, rather than all 5 fingers on both hands and your right wrist.
If you want absolute precision, you could always get one of those wacky Battletech set-ups.
There's something to be said for convenience. Not every game is reliant on precision aiming, too. What If I want to move around without tapping away for precise movements?
 
Fact: Keyboard/mouse is better than a gamepad. Another fact: Next to zero games on consoles support a keyboard/mouse setup, so you're stuck with a gamepad.
 
I'd like to know how this is a fact. Especially from the keyboard end. It was designed as a typewriter after all. The gamepad was designed with only gaming in mind, not just taking a typewriter layout and using it because there's no other alternative. Do you honestly think someone really intended WASD controls to still be around back when they were first implemented? Did they REALLY want F5 to be where it is for hot-saving? Was space bar truly meant to be a jump? All of that stuff was just thrown there because the arrow keys are too far to the right to be comfortable. People have just adapted to using an inferior control scheme that hasn't been updated in 15 years.
The mouse is at least a tool that's been tweaked for gaming needs, but unless you're one of the 2% of the people using a gaming keypad - you're playing games with a typewriter.
 
Domingo said:
Well, a controller offers a lot more precise movement. It after all offers 100% analog movement rather than quick tapping like a keyboard. You're also able to handle every function needed using only both thumbs and forefingers, rather than all 5 fingers on both hands and your right wrist.
If you want absolute precision, you could always get one of those wacky Battletech set-ups.
There's something to be said for convenience. Not every game is reliant on precision aiming, too. What If I want to move around without tapping away for precise movements?
Click to expand...

This is completely false. Controllers offer very little in terms of precise movement, and much of that is due to the fact that you're using analog movement. Analog sticks typically never have a zero state, so to get around that, they have a dead zone which allows it to simulate one. And such dead zones are also used to estimate how far and in what direction you are moving on the controller. Mouses on the other hand don't suffer from such restrictions. (This even includes trackballs).

With a controller, if you are within -1 & 1, you're at pixel 0. If you're within 1 & 5, you're at pixel 2. If you're within 5 & 10, you're at 3. With a mouse, if you're at 0, you're at pixel 0. If you're at 1, you're at pixel 1. If you're at 2, you're at pixel 2.
 
Nytegard said:
This is completely false. Controllers offer very little in terms of precise movement, and much of that is due to the fact that you're using analog movement. Analog sticks typically never have a zero state, so to get around that, they have a dead zone which allows it to simulate one. And such dead zones are also used to estimate how far and in what direction you are moving on the controller. Mouses on the other hand don't suffer from such restrictions. (This even includes trackballs).

With a controller, if you are within -1 & 1, you're at pixel 0. If you're within 1 & 5, you're at pixel 2. If you're within 5 & 10, you're at 3. With a mouse, if you're at 0, you're at pixel 0. If you're at 1, you're at pixel 1. If you're at 2, you're at pixel 2.
Click to expand...

I'm referring to movement via your keyboard. In a PC shooter you're left quick tapping or toggling your walk-run speed rapidly to do anything precise. With a gamepad or joystick I just adjust the pressure I'm placing and move naturally up to what I'm trying to do rather than going through the 15 step process of tapping forward+any other direction, plus your walk/run toggle. Movement - not aiming. I'll never fault the mouse - my gripe is that the keyboard is designed for writing, not gaming.
The truly superior control scheme we're all missing out on is something akin to this: http://www.amazon.com/SplitFish-Gam..._1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1207088013&sr=8-1
Best of both worlds. Easy to hold and use (sans a desk), but still offering a lot of buttons and aiming.
No clue if that item actually works, but that idea is what's really needed. An all-in-one solution (add in some macro keys at the top) that covers all of your bases and only needs one plug/driver. No desk or wacky home theater setup required either.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Domingo said:
I'm referring to movement via your keyboard. In a PC shooter you're left quick tapping or toggling your walk-run speed rapidly to do anything precise. With a gamepad or joystick I just adjust the pressure I'm placing and move naturally up to what I'm trying to do rather than going through the 15 step process of tapping forward+any other direction, plus your walk/run toggle. Movement - not aiming. I'll never fault the mouse - my gripe is that the keyboard is designed for writing, not gaming.
The truly superior control scheme we're all missing out on is something akin to this: http://www.amazon.com/SplitFish-Gam..._1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1207088013&sr=8-1
Best of both worlds. Easy to hold and use (sans a desk), but still offering a lot of buttons and aiming.
No clue if that item actually works, but that idea is what's really needed. An all-in-one solution (add in some macro keys at the top) that covers all of your bases and only needs one plug/driver. No desk or wacky home theater setup required either.
Click to expand...

I won't deny that the keyboard was not designed for gaming. But I'm definately not a big fan of analog controllers. With 3D platformers, when you have to walk forward in a straight line, analog controllers are an absolute pain. I'd take the NES or SNES version of Mario over the N64+ versions of controlling Mario any day.

What I'd honestly love, is a keyboard that is pressure sensitive. The harder you press down on W, the faster you move forward, etc.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top