K8WE Vs. H8DCE?

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swirlee

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On my system build thread I posted HERE AreEss planted a seed of doubt concerning which Mobo I should go with.

After doing more research into the two boards, I am a still as torn as ever.

Newegg lists the K8WE as only having a 800mhz FSB HERE while some other random site I came across says it has a "Bi-Directional 16-bit 1000 MHz / 800 MHz." HERE Why the discrepancy between the two sites? How can you get the FSB to run at 1GHz and when does it only run at 800mhz?

The Supermicro H8DCE specs cleary state that it's FSB is 1GHz and if the K8WE only runs at 800mhz, the Supermicro clearly has an advantage right from the start. Not to mention you can find it for about $100 cheaper.

And lastly, if you guys wouldn't mind taking a look at this link HERE pgs. 22 and 23. Am I reading this wrong? Can you really just use one CPU and memory bank and then later add the second CPU and memory? Is it just that easy, or would I have to do some heavy reconfiguration after I installed the second CPU and RAM later? Also, is the Tyan board capable of doing the same. This would cut my initial build cost way down. I could just run one CPU and then later add the second. If K8WE can't do this, thats another point for the supermicro board IMO.

Thanks in advance.
 
You can run only one CPU, sure, but you can only populate CPU0's RAM slots. Adding a CPU later shouldn't cause any serious HAL issues, but backup is always a good idea. (A repair install has been said to work) As for the Hypertransport discrepancy, some Opty's run at 800, others at 1000 (the price is a real clue here), I believe both boards can run the 1ghz Opty's.
 
Yes the H8DCE can really run with just one cpu both the nForce 2200 and 2050 are connected to cpu0. The K8WE can also run 1 cpu but you will not be able to acess the 2050 chip which means no sli until you get two cpu's. I believe the K8WE can run 1Ghz. Unless you really need pci-x support I can't see much reason to go with the K8WE.

I personally have a H8DCE and I like it alot. Now that 265's have dropped a bunch in price I have really been thinking about getting some to replace my 246's.
 
Let me see if I have this right.

Yes the K8WE can run on one processor, but I won't be able to use SLI. It can also run at 1GHz FSB as long as the CPU runs at that speed.

and...

The H8DCE can run on one processor and use SLI all while running at 1GHZ FSB.

and running one CPU then adding another and more memory later shouln't be a problem for either board. As in, I shouldn't have to reformat or doing any heavy BIOS work after I add the extra hardware correct?

All and all I think I like the H8DCE best. I like how the K8WE is layed out better, but oh well. Is there just as much support from online communities for the H8DCE as there is for the K8WE? Because I know I am going to have problems and I would hate to buy something that nobody uses and I can't get help.
 
i tend to prefer the H8DCE for the applications i use them for (workstation, DAW, video).

dave
 
This forum has a lot of K8W/E and H8DCE users (the [H] mobo editor has a K8WE system :D), so I wouldn't consider yourself "dead in the water". 2cpu has the massive H8DCE thread, which is a nice resource as well.

Quite probably the most important thing to note between the two boards is that there is no PCI-X on the H8DCE. The H8DC8 has PCI-X, and is more of a "direct competitor" to the K8WE, but is also more expensive. Do not expect to run an expensive RAID controller on this (H8DCE) board, sadly.
Yes the K8WE can run on one processor, but I won't be able to use SLI. It can also run at 1GHz FSB as long as the CPU runs at that speed.
and...
The H8DCE can run on one processor and use SLI all while running at 1GHZ FSB.
Click to expand...
The logic behind the reasoning of the K8WE makes sense, but I'm not quite sure about the H8DCE. I remember seeing a block diagram of the H8DCE architecture that details exactly what each chipset delegated to each CPU.

and running one CPU then adding another and more memory later shouln't be a problem for either board. As in, I shouldn't have to reformat or doing any heavy BIOS work after I add the extra hardware correct?
Click to expand...
The most I've ever had to do is a repair install of Windows...but that install was pretty much hosed to begin with.
 
I think I forgot to mention that I am lame and probably know only about 40-50% of what most of you guys know. Probably less actually heh.

I am guessing that PCI-X is different than PCI-Express, correct? And why is not having PCI-X bad, what does it do for me?
 
not having PCI-X isn't bad. you don't use fancy controllers, you don't need it. btw, the H8DCE has 8 SATA ports...yeah, baby.

more and more controllers are coming out with PCIe capable RAID controllers so....that's fast becoming a moot issue.


power supply and memory issues are definitely for consideration since SM boards are both power hungry and memory picky.

dave
 
I would only add this; I have the Netcell Revo Raid card and the speed is much better than using soft Raid. However, that may not be an issue for him, but I love it. Just my .02.
 
Areca is poised to come out with an AWESOME SATA-II RAID card based on PCIe....can't wait.

dave
 
Please correct me if I am wrong.

1.) Both the K8WE and H8DCE can run using only one CPU and adding a second CPU later shouldn't cause any problems.

but...

2.) In order to use SLI, the K8WE must have 2 CPU's installed, but the H8DCE can use SLI with only one processor installed.

and...

3.) The H8DCE's FSB runs at 1GHz and so does the K8WE, but only when the FSB of the CPU installed on the K8WE runs at 1GHz, otherwise it runs at 800mhz.

also...

4) Here is the system I plan on building. Regardless of what mobo I decide on please tell me if everything is totaly compatible.



- AMD Dual-Core Opteron 270 Italy 1GHz HT Socket 940 Processor Model OSA270CBBOX

- CORSAIR XMS 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) ECC Registered System Memory Model CMX1024RE-3200

- eVGA 256-P2-N529-AX Geforce 7800GTX 256MB

- ENERMAX Liberty ELT620AWT ATX12V 620W

- ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm 2 Ball Blue LED Light Cooling Fan with Heatsink

- Creative SOUND BLASTER X-Fi Platinum 7.1

- PLEXTOR Model PX-716AL

- Lian Li V COOL PC-V1200B
 
Your #1 and #3 points are correct, #2 still unsure. The primary thing you should check into is whether that PSU has the proper connector for a server mobo (EPS as opposed to the 4-pin ATX). You should also check to see if that Corsair is on either of the boards' supported memory list (probably not, but users on 2cpu had success with those Corsair modules). Starting off with 2x1GB sticks isn't a bad idea.
 
thanks movax...

Here is the Enermax PSU Product Features

"ATX/BTX/CEB/EEB: Convertible design to power ATX/BTX system and support Dual CPU entry-level server/workstation."

should work shouldn't it?

anybody else know the answer to #2 for sure?
 
Reading the Liberty Datasheet, seems it comes with a modular cable for CEB/EEB workstation boards, so it will work, yes. Another popular PSU is S16 (S12 maybe...) from Silverstone.
 
Yes, the K8WE needs the hypertransport links used in the second CPU to give you access to the second PCI Express x16 slot, and the Gbit Marvell LAN. The supermicro has no such limitation.

Page 18 of the manual for those of you who need proof
In order to access PCI Express x16 slot 3 and second Nvidia MAC, TWO CPUs must be installed.

Do not expect to run an expensive RAID controller on this (H8DCE) board, sadly.
Click to expand...

Dude, do some research before you post stuff like that...there are TONs of expensive RAID controllers, and some that are not so expensive for the PCI Express bus. LSI Logic, Adaptec, 3Ware, Areca, Broadcom, High Point, Intel, Supermicro (there are more) ALL have PCI Express cards sporting 3 ports and up (8, 12, etc). Most have been out for awhile now.

Look, you will get a solid board either way, although some will say Tyan makes flakey boards. The ONLY reason in my opinion to get the Tyan is if you want/need the onboard Ultra 320 SCSI controller. Plus, I have NEVER had a problem with a Supermicro board, they are always well engineered with good BIOS programming.

Edit: I have 20 of these boards (H8DCE) going into systems at the end of this week, all getting Dual DC Optys, Dual Quadro Cards, and lots of RAM. I don't trust my business to anything that isn't rock stable...
 
Thanks Hardwarephreak, you have definately helped me make up my mind. I have been waiting for solid confirmation of some of my questions before I start ordering parts. I definately don't have enough expendable income to buy everything all at once, so this build will take a couple months buying parts paychek to paychek, but it should all be worth it. WISH ME LUCK!
 
hardwarephreak said:
Dude, do some research before you post stuff like that...there are TONs of expensive RAID controllers, and some that are not so expensive for the PCI Express bus. LSI Logic, Adaptec, 3Ware, Areca, Broadcom, High Point, Intel, Supermicro (there are more) ALL have PCI Express cards sporting 3 ports and up (8, 12, etc). Most have been out for awhile now.
Click to expand...
Right now, the PCI-X variants are the most common it seems, hence my point is still valid. If you have a $500 3Ware card you want to put in, it makes sense to pick the Tyan instead of purchasing the same card to run over PCIe, though a PCIe controller would be the way to go if buying a brand new one.
 
movax said:
Right now, the PCI-X variants are the most common it seems, hence my point is still valid. If you have a $500 3Ware card you want to put in, it makes sense to pick the Tyan instead of purchasing the same card to run over PCIe, though a PCIe controller would be the way to go if buying a brand new one.
Click to expand...

actually, would make more sense to pick up the H8DC8 w/PCI-x.... much better board. :)

in any case, i've got 2 x 270 trays just sitting here looking at me funny so....if anyone wants 'em...

:)

dave
 
I have a K8WE system that I use daily. In fact it gets used to write up my mobo reviews. :cool:

The K8WE is a great board. It does in fact run at 1000MHz HTT speeds. That depends on the processors installed. My 246 C0's defaulted to 800 and my 254's default to 1GHz.

I've never had stability issues or problems with this board. It's been great so far. I've been running it for around a year now. Of course when I built my system there wasn't another choice for Opterons and SLI.

If I were going to build today I would get teh H8DCE. More SATA ports, and more PCI-Express. I do not need PCI-X myself. If you do, the H8DC8 is probably the better choice. The Tyan board is excellent, but it was the FIRST board of it's kind. Others have naturally improved on the concept by now. I'd still grab the Tyan over IWill or most others.
 
I’ve just got a K8we (w/SCSI) and the only disappointing thing is that they don’t tell you clearly that the SCSI controller runs off the 100Mhz Pci bus.
I bought the mo-bo cause it’s suppose to have 1 x Pci ex. Bus, 1 33Mhz Pci Bus, 1 x 100 Mhz Pci X bus ( 2 slots) and 1 independent x 133Mhz Pci X Bus.
I was going to use the 100 Mhz for my Newtek video editing card but now I see that it would be sharing the same bus as the Scsi drives carrying the video stream! Not good.

Any way, going back to your question, I have tried the K8we on one CPU & one set of Ram and then changed it to two CPUs and I didn’t have to reset absolutely anything. Luck??

My only prob. Now is the scsi not seeing the drives ??? SEE this http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1029066

I am working on it
 
logic28 said:
I’ve just got a K8we (w/SCSI) and the only disappointing thing is that they don’t tell you clearly that the SCSI controller runs off the 100Mhz Pci bus.
I bought the mo-bo cause it’s suppose to have 1 x Pci ex. Bus, 1 33Mhz Pci Bus, 1 x 100 Mhz Pci X bus ( 2 slots) and 1 independent x 133Mhz Pci X Bus.
I was going to use the 100 Mhz for my Newtek video editing card but now I see that it would be sharing the same bus as the Scsi drives carrying the video stream! Not good.

Any way, going back to your question, I have tried the K8we on one CPU & one set of Ram and then changed it to two CPUs and I didn’t have to reset absolutely anything. Luck??

My only prob. Now is the scsi not seeing the drives ??? SEE this http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1029066

I am working on it
Click to expand...

Not at all luck. With Windows XP, or Server 2003 you do not have to re-install anything. The OS can add the second CPU like any other piece of hardware.
 
Dan_D said:
Not at all luck. With Windows XP, or Server 2003 you do not have to re-install anything. The OS can add the second CPU like any other piece of hardware.
Click to expand...

and the same should be true for the H8DCE correct?
 
Same would be true of any mobo. My current Windows install has lived through four different motherboards.
 
movax said:
Same would be true of any mobo. My current Windows install has lived through four different motherboards.
Click to expand...

This is true. Windows having to detect additional processors is not motherboard dependant.

Though getting one Windows installation to survive several motherboard upgrades is another matter. :cool:
 
It's amazing what an nForce image can do.

I used the same image on my fiancee's Biostar nForce4 w/ integrated video to set up an Asus nForce 4 SLI, AND a disposable image on my K8WE.

It handled a different chipset (no integrated VGA) & motherboard in one case, and a jump to a new chipset + dual processors in the second.

So, CPU changes are simple enough ;)
 
Generaluser45 said:
It's amazing what an nForce image can do.

I used the same image on my fiancee's Biostar nForce4 w/ integrated video to set up an Asus nForce 4 SLI, AND a disposable image on my K8WE.

It handled a different chipset (no integrated VGA) & motherboard in one case, and a jump to a new chipset + dual processors in the second.

So, CPU changes are simple enough ;)
Click to expand...

Initially when I got my Tyan K8WE I used my OS install from my A8N-SLI Deluxe. It worked fine. Though once I got ahold of my copy of Windows XP Professional x64 Edition, I reformatted and switched to that. I like being able to see all my ram. :cool:
 
I guess I have been rather lucky. After the BIOS flash I have had no problems and I love this MB. It is incredibly stable and I just H2O cooled today, now it is very :cool:
I still have a great deal of cable management to do, but my temps dropped dramatically.
My load temps before H2O were 60-62C and now they have not gone above 35C!

6b37aec6.jpg

3fc10ce0.jpg
 
theseeker said:
I guess I have been rather lucky. After the BIOS flash I have had no problems and I love this MB. It is incredibly stable and I just H2O cooled today, now it is very :cool:
I still have a great deal of cable management to do, but my temps dropped dramatically.
My load temps before H2O were 60-62C and now they have not gone above 35C!

6b37aec6.jpg

3fc10ce0.jpg
Click to expand...

Nice. What cooling setup are you using? Something custom I'd imagine. I've not seen anything stock that would cool a setup like this.

I am still fighting with my SCSI array. I've got some hotswap Cheetah drives, and one of my hotswap to 68-pin converters took a crap and died on me. Weird but it's been causing me some issues. Damn Tyan board keeps wanting to boot to the SCSI card and not my SATA RAID.

I need to upgrade my motherboard BIOS I think, as well as my MegaRAID's firmware.
 
The cooling gear ia Aqua Computer, 2 Cuplex XT CPU Blocks, 2 Twinplex Pro GPU Blocks, Aquaero VFD Display, Aquabay Res, Aquastream Pump, Aqua EVO 160 Rad and an Innovatek Konvekt-O-Matic ULTRA Passive Radiator. What BIOS are you using curently?
 
theseeker said:
The cooling gear ia Aqua Computer, 2 Cuplex XT CPU Blocks, 2 Twinplex Pro GPU Blocks, Aquaero VFD Display, Aquabay Res, Aquastream Pump, Aqua EVO 160 Rad and an Innovatek Konvekt-O-Matic ULTRA Passive Radiator. What BIOS are you using curently?
Click to expand...

1.01. I haven't had any need for an update until I threw that LSI MegaRAID card in there.
 
mikeblas said:
The K8WE is on the AMD Recommended List. The H8DCE doesn't appear to be.
Click to expand...
A valid (hell, selling) point for serious corporate customers I'd say, but enthusiasts seem to love the H8DCE as well. Seems like the BIOS/support is better from Supermicro atm.
 
movax said:
A valid (hell, selling) point for serious corporate customers I'd say, but enthusiasts seem to love the H8DCE as well. Seems like the BIOS/support is better from Supermicro atm.
Click to expand...


Well there is still no link from Supermicro's main site to the Aplus line of products. My guess is that it will never be on list of approved boards at least until Supermicro quits being scared of Intel.


Edit : I stand corrected there are Supermicro boards listed on AMD's approved list.
 
dave_graham said:
so what? :)
Click to expand...
So why isn't it listed? Did Supermicro not test it? Why didn't they? Did they test it and it has compatibility or stability problems? Or something else?
 
Reiterating what I've said previously;
I can't say who's submitted what boards to AMD for validation, even if I do know.

I can say that the AMD 'Recommended' list does not always include testing. The Tyan K8QS Pro is "recommended" for the Opteron 875, but the K8QS Pro absolutely does not support dual-core. Only the K8QD. (Thanks again, Tyan, you jackasses.) Also love the note; "supports dual-core with Tyan recommended chassis."

In other words; take the list with a grain of salt. A really big one. Just because a board isn't there doesn't mean it's not a superior board, and just because a board is there doesn't mean it's correct.
 
AreEss said:
Reiterating what I've said previously;
I can't say who's submitted what boards to AMD for validation, even if I do know.

I can say that the AMD 'Recommended' list does not always include testing. The Tyan K8QS Pro is "recommended" for the Opteron 875, but the K8QS Pro absolutely does not support dual-core. Only the K8QD. (Thanks again, Tyan, you jackasses.) Also love the note; "supports dual-core with Tyan recommended chassis."

In other words; take the list with a grain of salt. A really big one. Just because a board isn't there doesn't mean it's not a superior board, and just because a board is there doesn't mean it's correct.
Click to expand...

I am going to have to agree with that one. I've seen motherboards on the recommended list that truely suck.
 
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