Judge Says Its Okay To Taser You For DNA

Technoob said:
You can't push a cop, let alone tase one, so what does that have to do with anything? It's a felony to even lay a hand on a cop. Your juvenile electricity fantasies aside, you still haven't addressed how giving cops the option of clubs and guns is better than tasing. Even the most rabid anti law enforcement groups didn't want that...
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juvenile electricity fantasies? you haven't addressed facts, im done with this crap.
 
mope54 said:
Give it a rest. There's a large span of force available to well trained officers other than "clubs, guns, and tasers."

(although I have to admit I found it amusing that you demanded sources for how many taser deaths occur per year and then responded with an unsubstantiated claim that "hundreds of thousands" of people are tasered per year)
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The burden of proof is on the person making outrageous claims about tasers being universally lethal devices. Given the populations of LEO's who have tasers and actively use them, are you saying my claim is outrageous?

Tasers have a net savings of lives, however you would like to calculate the math. And all of the frothing at the mouth posts about how they are deadly weapons simply won't change that fact.
 
Regardless of the right or wrong of it, physically resisting the police is only going to escalate. You will lose eventually. Best to cooperate, then go after them legally later.
 
i dare you then. go to a police station and setup a time for them to tase you. im serious, this is ok in your case because it's not lethal, what could happen? and don't go for that 5-sec zap that other officers do when they take taser training- do the real, full 20 second blast that they do in the feild, in real life. and when that's done, tell them to hold the trigger again for another 20 sec, and repeat that a couple more times, like they do in real life. 20 seconds is the very minimum in any case... and WHEN YOU DO THAT, come back here and continue your rambling. please, i dare you.
 
spacetrader said:
i dare you then. go to a police station and setup a time for them to tase you. im serious, this is ok in your case because it's not lethal, what could happen? and don't go for that 5-sec zap that other officers do when they take taser training- do the real, full 20 second blast that they do in the feild, in real life. and when that's done, tell them to hold the trigger again for another 20 sec, and repeat that a couple more times, like they do in real life. 20 seconds is the very minimum in any case... and WHEN YOU DO THAT, come back here and continue your rambling. please, i dare you.
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I have been tased voluntarily actually, as part of my job training, the same way that officers are tased. I've also prosecuted hundreds of cases where force was used, including tasing, and have seen REAL actual police brutality, and tasers have never been involved. Judging by your posts, in the well over 100 times I've seen a suspect tazed, none have died. How do you explain that with your rampant insistence that these are deadly weapons?
 
great, you took a 5sec shock voluntarily. the fact you did it intentionally alone is a mark of ignorance. come on dude, if you really have seen that many people being tased you wouldnt argue they are safe.

multiple 30 hour osha training classes, 6,000+ hours on the job electrical training, well over 100 times being shocked myself, a few times by 480v mains that make tasers seem like toys. if anyone knows what electricity can do to a person its me. and just because im not dead doesnt mean what i do is to be taken lightly.
 
ePeen for electricity damage?

Three factors leading to harsh results:
"Tough on crime in elections"
Prison industry
Urban exodus (besides gentrificiation), bubble mentality

Drug offenses and violent crime will only happen to the "others."

But it's better than the 50s or 80s. Some quiet improvements do happen.
 
spacetrader said:
great, you took a 5sec shock voluntarily. the fact you did it intentionally alone is a mark of ignorance. come on dude, if you really have seen that many people being tased you wouldnt argue they are safe.

multiple 30 hour osha training classes, 6,000+ hours on the job electrical training, well over 100 times being shocked myself, a few times by 480v mains that make tasers seem like toys. if anyone knows what electricity can do to a person its me. and just because im not dead doesnt mean what i do is to be taken lightly.
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You got shocked by things that make tasers look like toys and you're still here typing, see why your scaremongering garbage is wrong?
 
If he's been shocked by 480v mains that made TASERs seem like toys and he's still alive, then that would call into question your logic trying to refute the danger of their use by the fact that not everyone dies when TASERed.
 
technoob doesnt know what he's talking about on this subject. he's a lawyer, his whole life surrounds on arguing his point even if its wrong.
 
spacetrader said:
technoob doesnt know what he's talking about on this subject. he's a lawyer, his whole life surrounds on arguing his point even if its wrong.
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Show that I'm wrong with something more than whining about tasers being deadly and I might listen to you. So far you haven't been worth paying attention to other than to point out how incoherent you are.
 
Btw, according to Amnesty, 334 taser deaths in the last 9 years. Do some simple math, compare how often they are used, and stop whining about them ever again. Bye now.
 
Technoob said:
Bye now.
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That's the most intelligent thing you've posted so far.
The last time you attributed something to Amnesty you were flat out lying, so I'm not sure what you feel you have to gain by continuing to make an ass out of yourself and argue your dick into the ground. But if it's fun for you to argue regardless of facts, and then lie about your profession in a poor attempt to lend legitimacy to your arguments, continue by all means...

...or take your own advice and "bye now"
 
mope54 said:
That's the most intelligent thing you've posted so far.
The last time you attributed something to Amnesty you were flat out lying, so I'm not sure what you feel you have to gain by continuing to make an ass out of yourself and argue your dick into the ground. But if it's fun for you to argue regardless of facts, and then lie about your profession in a poor attempt to lend legitimacy to your arguments, continue by all means...

...or take your own advice and "bye now"
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That's quite a mouthful friend. I'm sure it's nice to convince yourself that someone is lying if they disagree with your ignorant viewpoints, but wishing doesn't make it so.
 
I think Technoob is right, for the most part. Police wouldn't be allowed to use tazers if there was any more danger than getting cracked with a baton. However, I think it would be damn ignorant to say that tasers are completely safe. I mean think about it: if you're a person with a heart condition, or you're pregnant, or you have some other form of illness like athsma, a tazing may trigger a fatal reaction. You really can't argue that that is out of the question. Cops don't consider these factors when they taze. Technically, the tazing itself will not kill you, your ailment that the tazing triggered killed you. Even still, I think both sides have a point.
 
technically, less then 100ma can kill you, so technically, tasers can kill someone without any health concerns at all. that's why i shake my head in dismay when i see cops voluntarily get tased 'to see whats its like'. one of these times, a cop will die from a short 'test' tase. it will happen. only then will people realize tasers have their place, but they should not be considered non-lethal weapons (and subsequently used freely like they are some sort of minor-deterrent device)
 
spacetrader said:
technically, less then 100ma can kill you, so technically, tasers can kill someone without any health concerns at all. that's why i shake my head in dismay when i see cops voluntarily get tased 'to see whats its like'. one of these times, a cop will die from a short 'test' tase. it will happen. only then will people realize tasers have their place, but they should not be considered non-lethal weapons (and subsequently used freely like they are some sort of minor-deterrent device)
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Cops die in training all the time. Cops die while driving cars. People die from drinking too much water. Your silly ranting about how electricity kills people just isn't making any sense. But I'm sure that won't stop you from continuing with it.
 
Technoob said:
Cops die in training all the time. Cops die while driving cars. People die from drinking too much water. Your silly ranting about how electricity kills people just isn't making any sense. But I'm sure that won't stop you from continuing with it.
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i actually pity your stupidity....
 
Just curious and a little suprised by this...

When did it be come legal to force someone to testify or provide evidence against themselves?
So the courts can now order someone tased if they wont confess? Can they tase my wife to force her to provide evidence against me?

How is this not a violation of his 5th admendment rights?
 
lens pirate said:
Just curious and a little suprised by this...

When did it be come legal to force someone to testify or provide evidence against themselves?
So the courts can now order someone tased if they wont confess? Can they tase my wife to force her to provide evidence against me?

How is this not a violation of his 5th admendment rights?
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No, there is a court order that carries the same legal weight as a search warrant to seize DNA fluids. This is something extremely common that happens every day, whether it is blood draws from DUI suspects or DNA tests for suspects. Once the order is issued, the police may use force to enforce the warrant.

The legal principle is the same as if a search warrant for your house is issued, and you start punching the cops or shooting at them to prevent the execution of the warrant. Use of force to enforce warrants has been part of the law for centuries now, so this is nothing new, just a case that got picked up and makes for a flashy headline.

As for the constitution, this is the 4th amendment, not the 5th, because your DNA is considered your property under the law, and the courts can seize your property if there is probable cause.
 
lens pirate said:
Just curious and a little suprised by this...

When did it be come legal to force someone to testify or provide evidence against themselves?
So the courts can now order someone tased if they wont confess? Can they tase my wife to force her to provide evidence against me?

How is this not a violation of his 5th admendment rights?
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The 5th amendment only protects testimony. DNA is physical evidence, so the courts can compel you to give DNA samples as evidence. So while the courts couldn't force you to give a testimony against yourself or your wife, your body is up for grabs.
 
It's surprising that anyone would favor the police in this case. The individual was restrained and had already fulfilled the courts compulsion prior. The cops tased a handcuffed man; for a length of time well beyond norm:

Smith was handcuffed and sitting on the floor of Niagara Falls Police Headquarters when he was zapped with the 50,000- volt electronic stun gun after he insisted he would not give a DNA sample.

He already had given a sample, a swab of the inside of his cheek, without protest the previous month. But police sent it to the wrong lab, where it was opened and spoiled. . .

. . .McDonell testified that he used the Taser for 1z to two seconds. Another officer testified that the data readout on the Taser showed it was on for as long as four seconds. . .
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I just can't believe that this is considered justified under any standard. It's pretty obvious that there was malicious on the officers behalf in this particular altercation.
 
Tekara said:
It's surprising that anyone would favor the police in this case. The individual was restrained and had already fulfilled the courts compulsion prior. The cops tased a handcuffed man; for a length of time well beyond norm:



I just can't believe that this is considered justified under any standard. It's pretty obvious that there was malicious on the officers behalf in this particular altercation.
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Actually, if you read the case history, if anyone is to blame it is the prosecutor. The person was not complying, and the cops did what you'd want them to do in every case: called the DA to see how they should proceed. The assistant DA told them to use their tasers to obtain compliance, and they did. I'm all for slagging off the cops when they go too far, but they got legally correct advice this time, if unsavory.

IOW, it's pretty clear that this is legal, but I still find it pretty disturbing.
 
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