Jetway A210GDMS-PRO still best for mATX onboard?

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RobsTV

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(edit: added new post #13 at bottom, Jan 15 2009, with replacement info)


It's been a while since I've been in these threads to view latest trends.

Ran out of current stock of Jetway A210GDMS-PRO motherboards, and seeing if anything beats it yet.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

From benchmarks that I have found so far, not yet, but I'm sure I missed some.
Looks like the new AM2 with ATi scores worse, and the nvidia 6100/6150's never ran as fast.
Looking for the next batch of motherboards to buy.
Low cost is a must, so thinking AM2 and DDR2.

It needs to be "better than" the year old Jetway's, which run the following here:

**Opteron capable of 300 x10.
While capable here, I lowered to 300MHz x 9 for lower heat, and near silent Zalman HSF.
(yes, onboard NIC craps out at that speed, but using wireless G anyway, so it didn't matter).

**Onboard ATi video (Jetway uses 32meg dedicated on motherboard+shared) speeds of:
3dm2k1se = 7910
3dmark03 = 2096
3dmark05 = 799

**PCIe + 2 usable PCI slots, which means if you run optional PCIe card with huge HSF, you can still use PCI slots.

**Includes TV-Out of svideo/composite video/
**HDA + S/PDIF optical & coax.

**20 pin power supply requirement, for use in lower wattage mATX cases. (must work with 200w to 250w like the Jetways do).

**Plus needs basics like at least one IDE connection, SATA, 6+ USB ports, SerialPort Com1, bla, bla bla.

**100% stable and reliable. (Had 5 Jetways, and all were 100% here running properly configured "naked" Bios).

Don't need anything else like firewire, DVI or SATA II, but wouldn't hurt as long as it still at least met the above needs.

These are used for HTPC, with occasional gaming, so the onboard needs to be at least what these current Jetway boards do.

So far it looks like I'll need to pick up some more Jetway's in order to at least keep same performance, and wait for next gen to get better boards???? For years all I ran was onboard nvidia up to the NF2's, and ended up sticking in an ATi 8500 AGP card in most of them. Then, while looking at the new nvidia 6100's, stumbled onto the Jetway ATi's, and made the switch. Onboard that was faster than ATi 8500/9100 or GF3 Ti500. It would be hard to go back to nvidia, but if specs, price and reliability are much better than the ATi's, I'll give them another try.

Thanks in advance!
Rob
 
probably not, I dont remember exactly but i think im using that motherboard. Its good but after a while it developed a problem where i cant raise the FSB as high as I used to without the onboard lan crapping out on me. Probably just my board as I dont think many other have this problem. Also updating the bios for this thing was a pain, and I dont know if they still making updates for it. Other than that its a good board. The one thing thats really good about it is the pci x1 slot is next to the pci e x16 slot, cuz im using a dual slot graphis card, and dont know anything that will use that x1 slot.
 
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, it is common for the onboard NIC to stop working at higher FSB speeds.
I use wireless, so that did not matter.

Never any issues with bios updates here.
First thing I did on all 5 I had were update to the "naked" bios mentioned in other thread..

I also need to use both PCI slots, and as you said, by them placing the PCIe 1x slot between the PCIe 16x and PCI, you can with this board.

New problem is that I can't find the Jetway in stock anywhere.
 
I have one, haven't used it in a year though, I attempted to update the bios, never turned back on. Ordered a new bios from jetway, I still only get beeps. I pretty positive it would be fine with a working bios, but I haven't had the time to mess around and try to hotflash it.
 
Bios and startup can be tricky if it is even slightly overclocked.

With power off, holding down insert (or delete, forget which), while plugging in power cord and turning on, always will get it to boot here.

Then crank down HTT to 600, and everything else to low low low.
Reboot, and it should then correctly boot fine.
Back into Bios, and while keeping multiplier very low, slowing increase FSB, about 40MHz at a time, until you reach the max your CPU can handle, or 300MHz, whichever comes first, rebooting after each increase. After FSB is set, then increase multiplier one or two at a time until desired is reached.

If boot problems occur as you increase speeds during above, go into memory, and lower it further. It would have started at 100MHz (200DDR), but once you hit 250MHz it may now be at 500MHz. Keep an eye on it, so that when CPU is at end desired speed, memory also ends up at desired end speed.

If done correctly, it will then reboot and restart correctly after that.
 
Havent done it in a while so i forgot, but how do you update the bios? Just ordered an opt 165 and i think it would be a good idea since i havent done it since last year
 
You should take a look at the Abit NF-M2 nView. That maybe the best mATX to ever come out yet.
 
Serge84 said:
You should take a look at the Abit NF-M2 nView. That maybe the best mATX to ever come out yet.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. It's almost there. A little pricey, but if it meets the needs...
Looks pretty close to the Jetway specs, but no TV out is a deal killer, and even worse, requires at least 300w power supply. That eliminates most small mATX cases used for HTPC. Plus, didn't want to go backwards with the limited gaming ability that onboard offers, as the 6150 is about 20% slower than the Jetway's dedicated + shared onboard x300. 20% less might not seem like much, but it still is not an "upgrade".

TV out is critical because it can be sent to whole house cable TV system using agile modulator, yet still use other outputs such as SVGA for HDTV. The Abit would require an add on video card right off the bat.

Small case requirements puts it in the same group as a set top box, or about the same size as a stereo receiver. Also, smaller power supply and case size usually means lower noise, which helps with the box in a living room or bedroom.

The Jetway "Pro" version (has the dedicated video memory) seems to be unavailable anywhere, so that no longer is even an option. A year and a half after the Jetway , there must be something out at least with the same specs at a decent price?.?.?.
 
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2553&p=5

ATI chipsets are faster in synthetic apps but in "real world" apps (games) they don't fare as well. If anyone can find more comparisons from reputable sources please post them.

That being said, onboard graphics will not be sufficient for newer titles, but for older titles they may provide an acceptable experience.

If you are purchasing ddr2, why not wait for the new intel integrated graphics chipsets? You are giving up a LOT of price/performance by purchasing an AM2 cpu.
 
The big difference is that the Anandtech review used the reference RS482, without onboard ram. Essentially, ALL the video ram was system ram.

The Jetway A210GDMS-Pro uses 32mb onboard to let the Xpress200 act more like a regular 'Hypermemory' part...it's a pretty big performance increase doing that.

AFAIK, they are the only motherboard that DID do it, though, for the cost of having DDR SDRAM on the motherboard.
 
Thanks dderidex, your comments echoed my results.
Also, besides the added video capabilities on the Jetway, it also uses the ULi 1573 Southbridge instead of the slower ATi Southbridge used in most online benchmark tests.

These will mainly be for small HTPC's first, and possibly gaming 2nd.
For hardcore gamers, an add on video card will be needed.
But, considering 800x600 is a popular resolution for DLP HDTV's, gaming at 800x600 does not require much GPU horsepower. The onboard Xpress200 ( with it's dedicated 32 meg video + 128 meg shared) can run games like Half-Life and Far Cry great at 800x600x32 (here, great is at least med quality setting results of minimum 30+ FPS) FEAR? Probably not, but that is not what is expected out of onboard. Running the other two listed games speaks volumes for how good onboard can be.

Again, with the small power supplies, there would be no high end video card anyway. We usually use an ATi x800 for less than $100 when more GPU power is desired in these, and since it does not use any additional power going into the card, is still fine when used with the Jetways. The Jetway and ATi x800 running on a 100" DLP at 800x600 does make a decent gaming rig. If we went with a 6150, and went with more expensive cases with 300w power supplies, we still would not be able to run much of an add on video card, since the 6150 itself would basically require much of the power.
 
FWIW, I did run FEAR:Combat (the free mutiplayer component...granted, with slightly reduced graphics) on the integrated Xpress200 on my Shuttle ST20G5. No onboard ram, so it was all off the sytem ram.

Still, I could run 'low' to 'medium' quality settings at 800x600, and got plenty playable framerate. Game still looked great, and here I was surprised it ran at all.
 
Well it took a while. but looks like the time has finally come for a faster mATX board that meets the needs stated in first post.

ASROCK A780FULLDISPLAYPORT 780G

The #1 reason why this board was chosen is slot placement.
You can use a 2 slot PCIe video card and still have 2 PCI slots for other.

Paired with a 45w AMD|A64 X2 BE2300 1.9G AM2, it is now faster than the Jetway 939.

Some preliminary numbers comparing what I've tested.
:
ATi HD 3200 IGP (780g) asrock
AM2 X2 @ 2.61ghz (290x9) 4gig default ati performance
3dm2k1se = 8500
3dmark03 = 1771
3dmark05 = 1435
3dmark06 = 797

Jetway IGP ATi x300 (3800+ X2 @ 290x9)
3dm2k1se = 7910
3dmark03 = 2096
3dmark05 = 799

ATi 3100 IGP (780v) Foxconn
3dm2k1se = 5792
3dmark03 = 1771
3dmark05 = 1435
3dmark06 = 797

ATi HD 2100 IGP
3dm2k1se = 4388
3dmark03 = 1492
3dmark05 = 898
3dmark06 = 324

System has
ASROCK A780FULLDISPLAYPORT 780G $69
AMD|A64 X2 BE2300 retail with stock HSF $35
Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400C4DHX R $5 (AR)
SAPPHIRE HD4830 512M $85 (AR)

total less than $200 upgrade cost for a quiet 3GHz HTPC/Gaming system

Testing overclocking now.
Current test is 330x9 or 2.98GHz for 30 minutes of memtest86 v2.11, and still going.
edit:
Prime95 had one core quit after 20 minutes, so now testing 316x9.5 or 3002MHz....
 
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