Japan to Start 4K TV Broadcast in July 2014

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
Joined
May 9, 2000
Messages
75,399
If you build it, they will come. Well, it worked for baseball, maybe it will work as well for 4K TV. To kick start the enthusiasm for Japan’s commercial involvement in the high resolution TV market, what better way than to be the first country to actually have stations that will broadcast in ultra-high-definition?

The 4K TVs, which boast four times the resolution of current high-definition TVs, are now on sale by Japanese makers including Sony Corp, Panasonic and Sharp Corp.
Click to expand...
 
I won't be satisfied until I can feel Mila Kunis licking me through the screen.
 
Good grief. How much radio frequency bandwidth would be required to push a 4k signal?
 
25E5V said:
Good grief. How much radio frequency bandwidth would be required to push a 4k signal?
Click to expand...

If I had to guess, you'd probably need about 15MHz of radio bandwidth to carry a 4k signal.

Oh, you meant the bit rate, didn't you? I'd say about 30Mbit/s with H.264, and 20Mbit/s with H.265/HEVC.
 
AEracer7 said:
And in other news US will be last to adopt the technology.
Click to expand...

that depends on how fast or slow the Porn Industry adopts this tech for this movies

thats not even a joke btw :) Porn sealed the deal for DVD's, and Blurays, I think VHS to actualy
 
Savi said:
that depends on how fast or slow the Porn Industry adopts this tech for this movies

thats not even a joke btw :) Porn sealed the deal for DVD's, and Blurays, I think VHS to actualy
Click to expand...

He might have been talking about OTA. At least thats how I interpretted the question.

30Mb/s might be minimum for bandwidth restricted sources (like internet). But for quad layer Blueray or whatever they plan on using I would think it would much closer to the 70-100Mb/s. And then several more megabits per second for the DTS-MA & HD-Dolby Digital.
 
going to be starting from asahi tv over satellite to start. NHK pioneered the standard for both 4K and 8K both know under the header UHD and formally standardized under the ITU REC. 2020 name.

Sharp already has a IGZO based LCD screen that is 32" selling for the equivalent of $5500 USD that is geared towards filmmakers and medical fields.

now with H.265 standardized too the bandwidth to broadcast 4K would be only slightly higher or possible less bandwidth that trying to broadcast MPEG2 1080p.

It is actually sorta good that h.264 isn't used for a lot of broadcast yet (in the US) because it means the jump over to a higher quality 4K blu-ray and 4K broadcast can all be h.265 and the move can happen faster than if h.264 was already in place.

Almost any film based originals can be remastered using a 4K process ( or better yet 8K) because film has plenty of resolution and a lot of films were also already remastered for blu-ray so there will be movie content pretty fast if therer is demand.

Live broadcast and sports will likely still be shot in 1080 with the move to a better atsc standard to have progressive scan in 1080p@60hz finally and just up-sampled because UHD will be 3840x2160 or just 4x1080p.

currently the biggest issue will be HDMI and DisplayPort updated to allow 3840x2160@60hz and/or 1080p@120hz but now that the resolutions fall under the UHD standard HDMI should be capable soon enough.

In my opinion, the US still will not have 4K broadcast soon when you consider the current OTA standard was fleshed out around 1996 but it shouldn't take 10-15 years if there are already shipping models in Japan and Korea and I've personally seen both the Sony and LG 84" 4K screens in person in a normal retail store and available to buy.

also I'd love some 4K Anime on a new blu-ray standard sooner than later and before physical media get decimated further in favor of streaming sub-par over compressed video.

streaming is great but unless everyone gets gigabit to the home and no caps and stuff like OpenConnect from Netflix happen across all Isp's I'd rather have less compression.
 
I didn't think their was a broadcasting camera made to support uhd resolutions yet? Unless this is talking about movies strictly it all might be upsampled.
 
What kind of viewing distance from your TV are you going to need to appreciate 4K TV resolution on average size screen? Less than 5 feet?
So, basically, you are sitting at your desk with a 4K TV for a monitor or you need to buy a 100" 4K TV for your living room. Sounds very sensible.
 
Most people don't sit close enough to their current TV to be able to tell the difference between 1080p and 720p. People aren't going to be wowed by 4k like they have been by every other jump. It will remain for the people that have a high end home theater if it stays around at all.
 
Will be a good difference when it comes to big tvs. Like anything higher in resolution will look clearer when ballooned up. Would get one of those tvs if it were priced right.
 
It may be clear but it's still going to be Japanese programming...and that's just friggin' weird. :eek:
 
Savi said:
that depends on how fast or slow the Porn Industry adopts this tech for this movies

thats not even a joke btw :) Porn sealed the deal for DVD's, and Blurays, I think VHS to actualy
Click to expand...

Times have changed. Who's gonna buy porn in 2013?
 
Savi said:
that depends on how fast or slow the Porn Industry adopts this tech for this movies

thats not even a joke btw :) Porn sealed the deal for DVD's, and Blurays, I think VHS to actualy
Click to expand...

Not true. PS3 sealed the deal for Blu-rays. Porn choose HD-DVD, It lost. Also consider disc sales vs streaming and the porn industry is really a non factor in the format war.
 
Joseph F said:
If I had to guess, you'd probably need about 15MHz of radio bandwidth to carry a 4k signal.

Oh, you meant the bit rate, didn't you? I'd say about 30Mbit/s with H.264, and 20Mbit/s with H.265/HEVC.
Click to expand...

6Mhz. The same as ATSC needs now. There's already a draft for ATSC 3.0 that incorporates H.265. They want it to be similar to the existing standard where you can do one HD channel and 6 SD ones, but in 3.0's case one 4K, 3D or 6 HD channels.

Also since someone brought it up. the existing ATSC can do 1080p but it's rarely is used because there's too many older devices that can only support Mpeg-2.
 
Brent_Justice said:
We are always behind
Click to expand...
This is on purpose.

When the HD standard was adopted in the US, technology was already beyond 1080p. But TV makers especially Japanese ones wanted to ring out their investment in 1080p after saturating the market in Japan.

So instead of leapfrogging Japan and doing something more consistent with the mid-late 90's we adopted technology from the early 80's. Just because of this moment. They knew they could do it all over again.

Anyone notice that prices are rock bottom now. The market here is saturated here now and poof, a new standard is pushed which Japan will get for a while. And then they'll bring here once Japan is saturated. While we could have gone 4K when we went HD instead.

Our politicians are so for sale, it isn't funny.
 
jpm100 said:
This is on purpose.

When the HD standard was adopted in the US, technology was already beyond 1080p. But TV makers especially Japanese ones wanted to ring out their investment in 1080p after saturating the market in Japan.

So instead of leapfrogging Japan and doing something more consistent with the mid-late 90's we adopted technology from the early 80's. Just because of this moment. They knew they could do it all over again.

Anyone notice that prices are rock bottom now. The market here is saturated here now and poof, a new standard is pushed which Japan will get for a while. And then they'll bring here once Japan is saturated. While we could have gone 4K when we went HD instead.

Our politicians are so for sale, it isn't funny.
Click to expand...

Not quite.

in the 80s Japan had a version of HD called MUSE (also known as hi-vision) The FCC did look into using this analog standard in the early 90s but because of various reasons mostly the 6mhz requirement it wouldn't have worked here. Japan used MUSE in various devices and broadcasts until around 5 years ago. The standard Japan uses ISDB didn't start to broadcast until 10 years ago, which is also why a lot of it is broadcasted in mpeg-4. DVB's relative lateness to market in some areas also lead to mpeg-4 being available there too.

ATSC had drafts in the 80s, but wasn't finalized until 96. Mpeg-4 1080p wasn't added until 2009. Mpeg-2 was the best you could get compression wise in 1996 so of course it looks outdated now. Politics has nothing to do with it, except in accelerating the time table to get NTSC to sunset.
 
undermined said:
also I'd love some 4K Anime on a new blu-ray standard sooner than later and before physical media get decimated further in favor of streaming sub-par over compressed video.
Click to expand...

Yeah uh 4K anime is pretty pointless unfortunately. Ultimately even 1080p is frequently an upscale due to the actual source material being at most 720p. I know of very few anime or indeed much media which ventures beyond 1080p.

Now for the article: I have to admit I completely scoffed when I read that they were ahead of schedule. I don't think I've ever heard of any government project in my country or any other for that matter being ahead of schedule. It is always delays and cancellations and being over-budget.

I think the fact that most people haven't got gigabit internet in 2013, taking into the account that there are no technological barriers preventing such a thing, nor excessive, infeasible expense, is something that the first world should be ashamed of. Streaming uncompressed 1080p is all but impossible for most people as it is. Certainly we need more companies like Google with some capital behind them to actually push for some upgrades to infrastructure. It's that or the alternative which is actually waiting for governments to do anything and stop stalling and letting everything stagnate for the sake of the status quo.
 
Ryokurin said:
Not quite.

in the 80s Japan had a version of HD called MUSE (also known as hi-vision) The FCC did look into using this analog standard in the early 90s but because of various reasons mostly the 6mhz requirement it wouldn't have worked here. Japan used MUSE in various devices and broadcasts until around 5 years ago. The standard Japan uses ISDB didn't start to broadcast until 10 years ago, which is also why a lot of it is broadcasted in mpeg-4. DVB's relative lateness to market in some areas also lead to mpeg-4 being available there too.

ATSC had drafts in the 80s, but wasn't finalized until 96. Mpeg-4 1080p wasn't added until 2009. Mpeg-2 was the best you could get compression wise in 1996 so of course it looks outdated now. Politics has nothing to do with it, except in accelerating the time table to get NTSC to sunset.
Click to expand...

It isn't just the 'standard'. Its the hardware I'm speaking about. And let me back up and say that true 1080p was and afterthought. When I said 1080p I was casting a wide net to really mean both 1080i and 720p, the two competing (and still competing for cable) standards which what I ware referring to.

MUSE is a variant of 1080i. So still much in common hardware-wise.
 
What good is it?

Most broadcasts I see are still in 720p.

Racing coverage is half of what it used to be. Instead of having many Camera's around the track and never missing anything, now there are limited HD camera's around the track and we constantly miss things. I can only assume it's due to the cost.

Like I said. We aren't even taking full capability from 1080p HD, and won't be for years. Why the hell would I invest in 4K?
 
TechLarry said:
What good is it?

Most broadcasts I see are still in 720p.

Racing coverage is half of what it used to be. Instead of having many Camera's around the track and never missing anything, now there are limited HD camera's around the track and we constantly miss things. I can only assume it's due to the cost.

Like I said. We aren't even taking full capability from 1080p HD, and won't be for years. Why the hell would I invest in 4K?
Click to expand...

internet tv may be what gets us there. google fiber and fios may be our only good way to the future.
 
Lets make a wager that we'll never collect on.

I wager that America will get 4K TV in 2018. I bet two DDR3-1600 dimms.
 
JohnleMVP said:
Not true. PS3 sealed the deal for Blu-rays. Porn choose HD-DVD, It lost. Also consider disc sales vs streaming and the porn industry is really a non factor in the format war.
Click to expand...

No, the PS3 didn't seal the deal for Blu-rays, Sony itself sealed the deal by paying off the content providers to release only in Blu-ray.
 
ballistic90 said:
No, the PS3 didn't seal the deal for Blu-rays, Sony itself sealed the deal by paying off the content providers to release only in Blu-ray.
Click to expand...

yea, sony reached deep into those already bare pockets to snatch away the big movie producers.
 
Lucas....ehem Disney, needs new movie tech every 5 years so they can re-release Star Wars. What are we up to now, 78 different versions?
 
john doe 182 said:
Most people don't sit close enough to their current TV to be able to tell the difference between 1080p and 720p. People aren't going to be wowed by 4k like they have been by every other jump. It will remain for the people that have a high end home theater if it stays around at all.
Click to expand...

I think they're shooting for generation jumpers in addition to enthusiasts. Those people don't buy Blu-ray or 1080p televisions because they feel they're not much of an improvement versus DVD-9 or DVD-18 quality to be worth investing into players and televisions (and for some, DTS and Dolby Digital receivers to DTS-HD and Dolby True-HD receivers).

Those who stuck with DVD will probably be wowed by 4k televisions, or at least feel somewhat justified in spending money on their upgrades.

And there's the Blu-ray disc cost factors in some B&M stores - at least versus DVD.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top