Jails Moving To Video Visitations?

ghost6303 said:
i understand the arguments against this proposal, psycological reasons etc... but i will remind everyone that we are talking about convicted criminals here. the penal system has its faults, but basic law enforcement is logically very clear. if you break the law, you are penalized. everyone has free will and everyone can make the choice to NOT murder, to NOT steal, to NOT rape. those who choose to do so, against the law, are (or should reasonably be) completely aware of the consequences if they are caught, which include not being able to see your loved ones.

sixfoot- its unfortunate that your brother picked the choices that he did; its unfortunate that he was mugged and stabbed. but that doesnt change the fact that he chose to sell illegal drugs and be involved in that type of dangerous environment. he chose to kill those people (arguably in self defense, yes; but he was in that situation in the first place because of his own previous choices. he also had the choice between weather or not to pull the trigger, and he made his pick).


its like having sympathy for me for getting diabetes after i drink 6 liters of coke per day for the last 10 years, or feeling sorry for the guy who gets paralyzed from driving drunk and smashing his car into a tree. yea its an unfortunate situation to find yourself in, but you did that to yourself. perhapse not on purpose, but it was by your own hand. you now get to live with the consequences of your own actions.
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What someone chooses to sell is none of the government's business unless they are committing fraud.

Drug related violence arises from prohibition. Just as alcohol prohibition resulted in the rise of the mafia, drug prohibition has allowed numerous criminal enterprises to gain power. To make matters worse, a lot of the violence comes not from the drug dealers but from the police whose supposed job is to "protect us".
 
... next they will be installing the remote kissing machines.

The jail/prison shouldn't be charging the family members the fee. They should be charging the inmate. Make the inmate have to work to earn credit for the VC. I thought the inmate was being held as a punishment? Make them work for it. Don't punish the family by making them pay for it.
 
awsiemieniec said:
... next they will be installing the remote kissing machines.

The jail/prison shouldn't be charging the family members the fee. They should be charging the inmate. Make the inmate have to work to earn credit for the VC. I thought the inmate was being held as a punishment? Make them work for it. Don't punish the family by making them pay for it.
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It's been done already. ;)
 
The system is FUBAR. Our laws are FUBAR. The "war on drugs" is FUBAR.
When you have a for profit penal system, of course they are going to try and stuff it to the gills with people. And who pays for it? The taxpayers.
Hurray for capitalism and the raping of human rights, because god forbid we actually give a damn about each other. This black and white view of the law is stupid. In most cases there are reasons why a person broke a law. How does it help that person to lock them up for x amount of time, but not try to work with them to rehabilitate them? If this is the system we want, then what is the point of the penal system. Just take anyone who breaks the law and put them on an island, say New York, and be done with it.

snake.jpg
 
leeleatherwood said:
In my opinion people in jail/prison already have too many rights.

Alot of places you can smoke cigarettes, buy candy, watch TV, hell even now people can access the internet from prison and even go on facebook.

If I was a prison warden it would be hard labor 24/7.
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Which prisons allow inmates Internet access?
Which ones allow inmates smoke cigarettes?

I can assure you the only time inmates are allowed those two options are when they are on work release working for an employer (usually they get to leave the grounds and come back later in the day)

Now TV's are allowed.. Jails mostly have dayrooms with TV's and in federal prisons - some inmate facilities allows clear cased tv's with headphones for purchase by the inmate... But everything must be purchased via commissary which is expensive..

Also, a side note; most jails are starting to charge inmates for their stay which automatically come out of their commissary - and I can guarantee most inmates receive some type of funds from family members which will go into their account, then those funds will be intercepted off the top for cost of stay, medical copays, dental, etc...

Every facility I worked in - Usually the facility's are sustained by the inmates themselves.

On the thread topic, these video visitations are done on the property of the facility of which the inmate is housed.. It's said to prevent contact visits where contraband gets slipped in by outsiders. I noticed this will create recidivism with many inmates do to the fact they cannot relate or feel close to the people who are the only ones that care about them on the outside..
 
* Edit*

I forgot to add some federal prisons (probably 10% of them if a number is needed), allow inmates to use a proprietary email system to stay in touch with loved ones - and are monitored just as phone calls.
 
VRMan said:
The system is FUBAR. Our laws are FUBAR. The "war on drugs" is FUBAR.
When you have a for profit penal system, of course they are going to try and stuff it to the gills with people. And who pays for it? The taxpayers.
Hurray for capitalism and the raping of human rights, because god forbid we actually give a damn about each other. This black and white view of the law is stupid. In most cases there are reasons why a person broke a law. How does it help that person to lock them up for x amount of time, but not try to work with them to rehabilitate them? If this is the system we want, then what is the point of the penal system. Just take anyone who breaks the law and put them on an island, say New York, and be done with it.

snake.jpg
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Lol... I believe that's how Australia was colonized....?
 
fourty03 said:
Which prisons allow inmates Internet access?
Which ones allow inmates smoke cigarettes?

I can assure you the only time inmates are allowed those two options are when they are on work release working for an employer (usually they get to leave the grounds and come back later in the day)

Now TV's are allowed.. Jails mostly have dayrooms with TV's and in federal prisons - some inmate facilities allows clear cased tv's with headphones for purchase by the inmate... But everything must be purchased via commissary which is expensive..

Also, a side note; most jails are starting to charge inmates for their stay which automatically come out of their commissary - and I can guarantee most inmates receive some type of funds from family members which will go into their account, then those funds will be intercepted off the top for cost of stay, medical copays, dental, etc...

Every facility I worked in - Usually the facility's are sustained by the inmates themselves.

On the thread topic, these video visitations are done on the property of the facility of which the inmate is housed.. It's said to prevent contact visits where contraband gets slipped in by outsiders. I noticed this will create recidivism with many inmates do to the fact they cannot relate or feel close to the people who are the only ones that care about them on the outside..
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I am not a subject matter expert but a quick google can show you some of the prisons that allow smoking. Also alot of city/county jails allow smoking.

http://amarillo.com/news/new-mexico/2010-07-23/prisons-allow-smoking-again

My father was in prison in VA for 5+ years and was allowed to smoke.

Also, some prisoners have internet/facebook access, just google it.
 
leeleatherwood said:
I am not a subject matter expert but a quick google can show you some of the prisons that allow smoking. Also alot of city/county jails allow smoking.

http://amarillo.com/news/new-mexico/2010-07-23/prisons-allow-smoking-again

My father was in prison in VA for 5+ years and was allowed to smoke.

Also, some prisoners have internet/facebook access, just google it.
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Smoking has been banned in all federal facilities since 2006, you are correct about candy and the amount of TV watched.
Most wardens are more worried about running a safe and quiet facility and the safety of the staff is of the highest priority.

The only proponents of hard manual labor are morons that have never seen the inside of a prison. You should probably talk to a correctional officer and ask him how he would feel if he had to work in a facility that allowed no TV or recreational activities and forced manual labor.
 
leeleatherwood said:
I am not a subject matter expert but a quick google can show you some of the prisons that allow smoking. Also alot of city/county jails allow smoking.

http://amarillo.com/news/new-mexico/2010-07-23/prisons-allow-smoking-again

My father was in prison in VA for 5+ years and was allowed to smoke.

Also, some prisoners have internet/facebook access, just google it.
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if you notice the date of the article you cited it's from 2010 and claims the state's minimum prisons will start to allow smoking *again*

that's because there was a shift to disallow things like smoking and then some successful challenges in the court system have reversed some of that trend. however, that was nearly three years ago and things could have changed again and even still in that article it's limited to the minimum security institutions which are the like labor camps (some states have designated work camps but all minimums are basically farms that the prisoners can walk off from anytime--it's not representative of what you probably envision when you think of a prison)

in jail, no one's smoking and owning tv's and in the medium prisons few people are smoking, few are working out, there's 1 tv per thousand prisoners, and then in the higher level security prisons there's less of all that. the prisoners who have personal tv's have usually been there for a very long time and have their tv's from before a lot of the rules changed. a few institutions still allow them and the private prisons (which are growing in number) are a completely different matter (often extremely lax in their restrictions of what can and can not be owned).

with thousands of prisons in the US it doesn't make sense to build up an idea of what prison life is like based off what happens in a handful of institutions nor does it make sensible policy to base it from those notions
 
fourty03 said:
On the thread topic, these video visitations are done on the property of the facility of which the inmate is housed.. It's said to prevent contact visits where contraband gets slipped in by outsidersDING!DING!DING!
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fourty03 said:
I noticed this will create recidivism with many inmates do to the fact they cannot relate or feel close to the people who are the only ones that care about them on the outside..
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You noticed this where? Bull. Show me an actual documented study that shows a video visit causes inmates to re-offend.
I noticed firsthand, it doesn't matter what you give certain inmates, they're coming back over and over anyway.
If it stops another avenue of incoming contraband, I'm all for it.
 
Monkey34 said:
You noticed this where? Bull. Show me an actual documented study that shows a video visit causes inmates to re-offend.
I noticed firsthand, it doesn't matter what you give certain inmates, they're coming back over and over anyway.
If it stops another avenue of incoming contraband, I'm all for it.
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That contraband effects you how? You do realize this contraband is usual found in raids or is destroyed/ingested by the inmate........

Anyways I had a loved on in jail and video visitations were forced. The software was shit and the hardware was just as shit. It was being touted as a 2 million dollar money saver......I still cant figure out how after paying the one guy to fix everything and still watch it break. Biggest waste of money if I ever seen one.
 
Monkey34 said:
You noticed this where? Bull. Show me an actual documented study that shows a video visit causes inmates to re-offend.
I noticed firsthand, it doesn't matter what you give certain inmates, they're coming back over and over anyway.
If it stops another avenue of incoming contraband, I'm all for it.
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Well maybe vocational training and some education.....
 
Bash said:
Smoking has been banned in all federal facilities since 2006, you are correct about candy and the amount of TV watched.
Most wardens are more worried about running a safe and quiet facility and the safety of the staff is of the highest priority.

The only proponents of hard manual labor are morons that have never seen the inside of a prison. You should probably talk to a correctional officer and ask him how he would feel if he had to work in a facility that allowed no TV or recreational activities and forced manual labor.
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Well, then I should say it is good they are not allowed to smoke anymore.

They should also not be allowed candy or TV and certainly not internet. They should be spending their days chained to each other doing hard manual labor. They need to be digging ditches, picking up trash on the side of the highways, etc, to make up for SOME of the taxpayer money it costs to keep them alive.

I don't care how the correctional officers "feel" about that, because the current system doesn't work. Most people who go to prison end up coming out worse than they went in.
 
leeleatherwood said:
Well, then I should say it is good they are not allowed to smoke anymore.

They should also not be allowed candy or TV and certainly not internet. They should be spending their days chained to each other doing hard manual labor. They need to be digging ditches, picking up trash on the side of the highways, etc, to make up for SOME of the taxpayer money it costs to keep them alive.

I don't care how the correctional officers "feel" about that, because the current system doesn't work. Most people who go to prison end up coming out worse than they went in.
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Yes and forced manual labor will improve that?
You think that will help lower re-incarceration rates?

I am not sure I understand your motivation and do you really think digging ditches and picking up trash is going to offset the cost of incarceration?
 
leeleatherwood said:
Most people who go to prison end up coming out worse than they went in.
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Please show me some stats showing that MOST ARE WORSE than when they went in please. Cause i'm doubting it very much.

I myself have first hand knowledge of quite a few NYS prisons and as for some of the shit throw around about what inmates have is BS. No internet in any I was ever in, T.V. was 2 for every housing unit of 90 people and was restricted for certain times. Schooling was mandatory if you scored lower than their set score on test upon first entering. You had to do something to pass your day, either janitor work, vocation or regular school classes, not allowed to just do nothing all day long. Inmates do pretty much all of the work around a prison with very few civilians involved. Lawn care, inmates. Cooking, inmates. Cleaning, inmates. Painting and repairs, mostly inmates.

@ leeleatherwood. Your ideas were tried way back in the day and that didn't work either ;).
 
Bash said:
Yes and forced manual labor will improve that?
You think that will help lower re-incarceration rates?

I am not sure I understand your motivation and do you really think digging ditches and picking up trash is going to offset the cost of incarceration?
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If the city/state uses the "free" labor of the prisoners to pick up trash/dig ditches/etc instead of paying people to do it, how would that NOT save money?

If I was forced to do manual labor versus siting around and playing cards/watching TV/smuggling contraband/gang activities all day long, you would be sure as fuck I would not want to return.

What really matters is this: Fuck the prisoners, they deserve no rights, no freedoms, nothing. If it were up to me they would all be exiled.
 
03grandam said:
Please show me some stats showing that MOST ARE WORSE than when they went in please. Cause i'm doubting it very much.

I myself have first hand knowledge of quite a few NYS prisons and as for some of the shit throw around about what inmates have is BS. No internet in any I was ever in, T.V. was 2 for every housing unit of 90 people and was restricted for certain times. Schooling was mandatory if you scored lower than their set score on test upon first entering. You had to do something to pass your day, either janitor work, vocation or regular school classes, not allowed to just do nothing all day long. Inmates do pretty much all of the work around a prison with very few civilians involved. Lawn care, inmates. Cooking, inmates. Cleaning, inmates. Painting and repairs, mostly inmates.

@ leeleatherwood. Your ideas were tried way back in the day and that didn't work either ;).
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http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=17
 
fourty03 said:
Lol... I believe that's how Australia was colonized....?
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And clearly it works since we have a quarter of the homicides per head of population compared to the US :p

That's the solution, take all criminals and put them on an Island! Australia is kinda full though now, maybe send them to New Zealand :D
 
his link actually shows the opposite of what he's trying to argue

"Within 3 years, 2.5% of released rapists were arrested for another rape, and 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for homicide."

98 percent rapists do *not* return for rape and 99 percent people convicted of homicide do *not* return for homicide

I explained in an earlier post the numbers that comprise our recidivist
nearly all of our recidivism rates are due to violations--not new crimes


if anyone would like to read more about the topic from one of our nation's leading criminologists on the subject http://www.amazon.com/When-Prisoners-Come-Home-Prisoner/dp/019516086X
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Monkey God said:
For court, video makes sense. For visitation, its crap.
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To me it doesn't seem like crap, it seems like its a punishment that probably saves quite a bit of money and eliminates the concerns of contraband being introduced.

Last I checked, prison was a punishment first and foremost and not a resort to get free dental, general healthcare, food, and shelter.

I don't see why inmates should really be interacting at all, as that just increases costs and introduces security risks and risks to other inmates from assault and even rape. I would be better to just design a cell for each of them with all the facilities that they need including some fitness equipment, and they can interact with one another and the outside world over video.

It would be easy and cheap enough then when all you have to worry about is putting food through a slot. And when the room needs to be searched or serviced then the inmate can step into an electronically locking cage at the front corner of the cell with additional fixed "handcuffs" the guard can double-check as an extra precaution before declaring the room safe.
 
Cataulin said:
That contraband effects you how? You do realize this contraband is usual found in raids or is destroyed/ingested by the inmate........
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Trolling, or real? Not sure.

I can give plenty of ways it effects facility security and operations if you mean it.
 
mope54 said:
98 percent rapists do *not* return for rape and 99 percent people convicted of homicide do *not* return for homicide
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Correction: 98 percept of rapists are not caught and/or convicted a second time. One would imagine they learned from their mistakes, picked up some tips in jail, and know how to avoid getting caught the next time they rape someone.
 
leeleatherwood said:
If the city/state uses the "free" labor of the prisoners to pick up trash/dig ditches/etc instead of paying people to do it, how would that NOT save money?

If I was forced to do manual labor versus siting around and playing cards/watching TV/smuggling contraband/gang activities all day long, you would be sure as fuck I would not want to return.

What really matters is this: Fuck the prisoners, they deserve no rights, no freedoms, nothing. If it were up to me they would all be exiled.
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You sound like my good friend Rush Limbaugh who would rant and rave and boast how if it was up to him all drug offenders would be given life in prison. They are the lowest form of civilization they are a drag on our economy.............

Funny how that all changed once he became a drug addicted law breaking member of the non-violent drug offender underclass. Come to think of it I have not heard him talk about it since....
 
Ducman69 said:
Correction: 98 percept of rapists are not caught and/or convicted a second time. One would imagine they learned from their mistakes, picked up some tips in jail, and know how to avoid getting caught the next time they rape someone.
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no, you're not reading the data correctly. that data is for recidivism--the people who have been sent back to prison
 
mope54 said:
no, you're not reading the data correctly. that data is for recidivism--the people who have been sent back to prison
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People get sent back to prison after leaving prison? Whatever for?! Don't they get...I dunno..given new job skills and education so they can function in society while they're being held there?
 
SkribbelKat said:
People get sent back to prison after leaving prison? Whatever for?! Don't they get...I dunno..given new job skills and education so they can function in society while they're being held there?
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No. GED classes, scrubbing/mopping, or cooking. That's it.




For a 'smart' forum, there are a TON of ignorant, backwards, red neck, live by the rath of god [pick a name]

Let's get the facts straight. I have some experience in such matters back in 2002.

  • Jail or Prison is NOT fun. Most days you are woken up to clean, then allowed to rest for 10 min before breakfast, at 6am.
  • TV is not allowed around the clock. Lights out = TV off. Caught with the TV on past lights out, and it was taken away for a minimum of 5 days. (I guarantee you that having a TV AVAILABLE makes the people happier) BTW, Lights out didn't mean the lights were 'out', only dimmed. Having dimmed florescent lighting really hurt my eyes and since I wear glasses, I had no option of having my eye site looked at ever while in there.
  • During my time, cigarettes were banned... but they ALWAYS got in from people who worked 'work release'. Back then, it was $1-2 per CIGARETTE trade. ($20-$40 for a pack). For those places that have it banned still, its probably double that now.
  • You did not get outside everyday. Maybe once a week, if you were lucky. Even then, the 'outside' was just a larger room with no roof. Think ours had a single basket ball hoop.
  • If you get in a fight in jail, or hurt yourself... no one cares. Not inmates, not the guards, not the doctors/nurses... no one. If anything, you're punished even more, directly or indirectly.
  • There was no internet access, period. Phone calls were collect calls ONLY, and they could only be made to land lines... which cost the accepter $3 per min (probably more so now). This even applied to phones used for bail. (f'in retarded in my opinion since so few have kept they're land line phones that can actually accept collect calls). Both Incoming and outbound mail was read. Only allowed 2 pictures at a time.
  • During my time, even those visits were done through glass and a telephone. I couldn't touch or hold anyone. You feel isolated really quick. Oh yea, the max visit allowed was 20 minutes. Kinda sucked for not only me, but the people who visited... a 2 hours each way trip.
  • The worst part was re-integration back in what is considered normalcy. Even during the ride home, all the bright lights hurt my eyes. Not being forced to get up at 6am to eat box mix food was also different. It also took me a while to want to 'not' do what I did in the first place. All I could think about when I got out is repeating what I did to help me get back on my feet. Doesn't help being around those who have done 10x worse than you and are trading tips/tricks and how they got caught. Luckily, I had a good support person which didn't abandon me when I needed them (even though at times I probably deserved it).

I think like a lot of things... using video conferencing for visits in 'theory' could save a lot of money.. but in the end, it'll cost more for the next 10-15 years. I think its a bad idea.
A) Not being able to see a loved one in person (even through glass), could be consider cruel and unusual punishment.
B) Cost to maintain a glitch free system for 100's - 1000's of prisoners is very high.
C) The moral of the inmate population would begin to dwindle even moreso. So then a jail/prison would either have to allow more personal freedoms (tv anytime, smoking, or whatever the facility has the least of), otherwise you could have a mass riot... or worse yet, mass suicide.
 
djgizmo said:
For a 'smart' forum, there are a TON of ignorant, backwards, red neck, live by the rath of god [pick a name]
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It's spelled "wrath" by the way. :p

I didn't read the rest though. :( Can you post a TLDR version pwease? :)
 
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