• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

It has to be said

E

eXzite

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
144
Moving this into a seperate thread, since it was sort of OT:

I think we end the 'which card is better' debate unless it's discussed in real-world terms.

Not to point out the obvious here, but it's becoming pretty clear that the X800 XT PE is actually just a vaporware card sent out pretty much only to reviewers. After 6800 Ultra Launch news, ATI poured through their Bin0 stock and found the handful of chips that were golden sample, and could take a high enough clock to edge out the Ultras. They then created the 'Platinum Edition' series and sent it to reviewers, knowing full well that there were not going to be enough of these golden sample chips to actually sustain a viable product line available to consumers.

Now there are all these charts of the PE just edging out the Ultra, but everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that the PE series doesn't really exist as far as consumers are concerned. It was created to save face, and the chips that can take that high of a clock are few and far between.

When debating which card is better, lets not forget that I could take some amazingly perfect all-planets-aligned-blessed 6800 that clocks at amazing speeds, call it a 6800 Ultra Turbo New Hottness Edition, send that to reviewers, and then claim that Nvidia now has the 'fastest' card on the market.

So, with all these discussions of which is better, at the end of the day you actually need to buy the darn thing, so lets stay rooted in reality here shall we?
 
sounds good exzite, but the fact is the 6800 ultras are a rare find too, the only card that really matters is the GT.
 
That's agreeable, it comes down to a matter of taste, which brand you like better.

However, what is REALLY getting annoying is how many threads there are asking what card to buy...thread after thread after thread of the same damn question...jeez, get a clue people.
 
rancor said:
sounds good exzite, but the fact is the 6800 ultras are a rare find too, the only card that really matters is the GT.
Click to expand...

i dunno, the 6800ultra is a fine overclocker too you know, maybe not worth the extra money
 
I've seen places with Ultras in stock. Of course they're selling them a $100 over MSRP. LAME. :rolleyes:

Still, at least it's not total vaporware.
 
Personally, I really like the look of the stock nVidia HSF's over the ATi HSF. That was my deciding factor!
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
i dunno, the 6800ultra is a fine overclocker too you know, maybe not worth the extra money
Click to expand...

It is, can't wait to see what the refreshes are going to offer, hopefully some better start off clocks for the nV lines.
 
eXzite said:
Moving this into a seperate thread, since it was sort of OT:

I think we end the 'which card is better' debate unless it's discussed in real-world terms.

Not to point out the obvious here, but it's becoming pretty clear that the X800 XT PE is actually just a vaporware card sent out pretty much only to reviewers. After 6800 Ultra Launch news, ATI poured through their Bin0 stock and found the handful of chips that were golden sample, and could take a high enough clock to edge out the Ultras. They then created the 'Platinum Edition' series and sent it to reviewers, knowing full well that there were not going to be enough of these golden sample chips to actually sustain a viable product line available to consumers.

Now there are all these charts of the PE just edging out the Ultra, but everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that the PE series doesn't really exist as far as consumers are concerned. It was created to save face, and the chips that can take that high of a clock are few and far between.

When debating which card is better, lets not forget that I could take some amazingly perfect all-planets-aligned-blessed 6800 that clocks at amazing speeds, call it a 6800 Ultra Turbo New Hottness Edition, send that to reviewers, and then claim that Nvidia now has the 'fastest' card on the market.

So, with all these discussions of which is better, at the end of the day you actually need to buy the darn thing, so lets stay rooted in reality here shall we?
Click to expand...

It does seem that there are more Ultras available than XTPEs...but the overclockability of the Pro and the ability to mod just about every VIVO to 16 pipes seems to contradict the theory that it's a yeild issue...I see what you're saying, but I'm not ready to pass judgement just yet...especially considering the GDDR3 situation...

And there is a "new hottness edition" it's called the Ultra Extreme...

Overall I agree with you...thus I wrote this a few days ago: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=788386
 
eXzite said:
Moving this into a seperate thread, since it was sort of OT:

I think we end the 'which card is better' debate unless it's discussed in real-world terms.

Not to point out the obvious here, but it's becoming pretty clear that the X800 XT PE is actually just a vaporware card sent out pretty much only to reviewers. After 6800 Ultra Launch news, ATI poured through their Bin0 stock and found the handful of chips that were golden sample, and could take a high enough clock to edge out the Ultras. They then created the 'Platinum Edition' series and sent it to reviewers, knowing full well that there were not going to be enough of these golden sample chips to actually sustain a viable product line available to consumers.

Now there are all these charts of the PE just edging out the Ultra, but everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that the PE series doesn't really exist as far as consumers are concerned. It was created to save face, and the chips that can take that high of a clock are few and far between.

When debating which card is better, lets not forget that I could take some amazingly perfect all-planets-aligned-blessed 6800 that clocks at amazing speeds, call it a 6800 Ultra Turbo New Hottness Edition, send that to reviewers, and then claim that Nvidia now has the 'fastest' card on the market.

So, with all these discussions of which is better, at the end of the day you actually need to buy the darn thing, so lets stay rooted in reality here shall we?
Click to expand...

There is a shortage of both. Just walk into your local Best Buy and you will see empty boxes for both. Even browse onto NewEgg you will see they are all on backorder. As for the XT, it is not vaporware, but thats a nice fairy tale to make you feel better if your an nVidia user I suppose. They are currently available through major OEM's like Dell (where the money is). If Nvidia had as many OEM wins they would be neglecting retail just the same. Its just.....well.....no one wants that power hungry behemoth because of the power it requires.
 
killerD said:
There is a shortage of both. Just walk into your local Best Buy and you will see empty boxes for both. Even browse onto NewEgg you will see they are all on backorder. As for the XT, it is not vaporware, but thats a nice fairy tale to make you feel better if your an nVidia user I suppose. They are currently available through major OEM's like Dell (where the money is). If Nvidia had as many OEM wins they would be neglecting retail just the same. Its just.....well.....no one wants that power hungry behemoth because of the power it requires.
Click to expand...


KillerD what is the matter with you, do you just insinuate flame wars?
 
killerD said:
There is a shortage of both. Just walk into your local Best Buy and you will see empty boxes for both. Even browse onto NewEgg you will see they are all on backorder. As for the XT, it is not vaporware, but thats a nice fairy tale to make you feel better if your an nVidia user I suppose. They are currently available through major OEM's like Dell (where the money is). If Nvidia had as many OEM wins they would be neglecting retail just the same. Its just.....well.....no one wants that power hungry behemoth because of the power it requires.
Click to expand...

here's a quote from the Dell website:

256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X800 XT [add $230 or $7/month1] May delay your Dimension XPS ship date
Click to expand...

Note the part about "may delay your dimension xps ship date".

What was that about a fairy tale?
 
killerD said:
There is a shortage of both. Just walk into your local Best Buy and you will see empty boxes for both. Even browse onto NewEgg you will see they are all on backorder. As for the XT, it is not vaporware, but thats a nice fairy tale to make you feel better if your an nVidia user I suppose. They are currently available through major OEM's like Dell (where the money is). If Nvidia had as many OEM wins they would be neglecting retail just the same. Its just.....well.....no one wants that power hungry behemoth because of the power it requires.
Click to expand...

What I don't get, is people always say the 6 series is a power-hungry behemoth or whatever. That's really only the case with the Ultra, and then not even really, the second molex is just there for safety really. Not only that, but people act like it was a conscious decision by Nvidia to make their card use so much power. The reality is this, ATI made a very risky gamble, and it paid off for them (at least for people like killerD I suppose), so more power to them. They went with a low-k dialectric process for the r4xx series, which was shaky and error-prone at the time (still is sort of). TSMC managed to pull it off, so their chip has a lower leakage current, and therefore uses less power to a degree. It's not like it's because of their design, or because Nvidia doesn't know what they are doing.

ATI took a risk, Nvidia felt they shouldn't after the NV3X fiasco. It paid off for ATI, so good for them. Stop acting like it's the end of the world.
 
You can't really call them (x800XT-PE) vaporware because several hundred of the cards were sold initially, mostly through CompUSA. That's where mine came from. But it does appear that either ATI ran into a supply/yield problem or severely under estimated the initial demand for a 500.00 video card.
 
CIWS said:
You can't really call them (x800XT-PE) vaporware because several hundred of the cards were sold initially, mostly through CompUSA. That's where mine came from. But it does appear that either ATI ran into a supply/yield problem or severely under estimated the initial demand for a 500.00 video card.
Click to expand...

I think it's a combination of low yields and GDDR3 shortages...and on top of that they're probably trying desperately to fulfill their OEM deal with Dell...and thus none make it to retail...

The only thing that makes me think they are having serious yield issues is the fact that the Pro is 12 pipes and so is thier new high-end CAD card...it's a 16 pipe core, so what reason could they have for disabling 4 pipes on thier high-end professional card?
 
rancor said:
the risk is still there. .9 microns don't have a low k fab process.
Click to expand...

You have a link to some updated info?

“TSMC is the only semiconductor foundry with two generations of proven low-k technology in production, including both the 0.13-micron and 90nm nodes,” said Genda Hu, vice president of marketing for TSMC. “
 
^eMpTy^ said:
No I think the point was that there is in fact low-k for 90nm...
Click to expand...

Right. I meant I was just nitpicking the person who posted 'there is no .9 micron fab process' when he meant .09 micron. Nevermind.
 
SnakEyez187 said:
No, 0.11 doesn't have a low-k process, 0.09 does
Click to expand...


Yes your right Snakeeyez, got my processes mixed up, its the next one down that doesn't have it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top