Issue with my Seasonic S12-850w

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Gnasher

[H]ard|Gawd
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Jan 28, 2011
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PSU keeps tripping over and not starting until it trips over numerous times with 2x5870 installed. First one I sent back for RMA because it did it with just 1x5870. Replacement was fine until I installed a second 5870. All rails show as strong under load so this is not a voltage issue and it runs games fine with 2x5870.

I got an RMA authorization from Seasonic but if I send it back it will mean my PC will be out of commission for at least two weeks and I don't want that. Anyone else with this issue and know a fix? Could it just be something about my mb it has an issue with?
 
If you take out the second 5870 again, will the PSU stop doing it? Have you tested the PSU in a different computer?
 
Yea, I took out the second 5870 last night and it did trip over once and then fired right up. With two it trips over many more times before firing up. Feel like I need a hand crank for old cars to get it fired up.

I was over at the Corsair forums because I was thinking of just getting a new PSU and stuff doing the RMA but while reading their forum saw someone with a very similar issue. After he took out the Corsair and put his old PSU in it tripped over with that one too. Couple of people said it was probably the mb or some other device in the system causing it. That's what I think is happening here perhaps.

While researching which PSU to buy I came across Powecolor PSUs. Didn't know they had entered the PSU market. The 1000W looks like a decent PSU for the price and is about $20.00 cheaper than a 1000W Corsair TX.
 
Is there possibly something else shorting out in your system? Check your motherboard standoffs, and for any loose wires. 850 watts should be more than enough power to handle two 5870's.
 
Also check your external USB connections and ESTA lines. I had a problem with a external USB that was overloading the 5v line causing the PS to shutdown and it was a Seasonic supply also. Another thing to check does your power supply have active power correction and if it is connected to the wall or to a UPS? There is a chance that it could be something else and how old is your PS?
 
Could be some sort of incompatability with the mobo due to timing or similar issues. That's happened on a number of psus in the past, obviously much worse with the extra video card. Tough to say a good solution, but you may want to test another psu and see if this fixes the issue. If it does, I'd sell the S12.
 
I have an S12-600 also but it is a couple of years older than the 850 and shows no similar issue. The 850 is about a year old or so and is probably redesigned compared to the 600w. I will test out the USB as a possible culprit and a few other ideas posted, thanks. I could put the 600w into this system for now but that will put the other PC out of commission. Seasonic says they charge $35.00 if you do an unwarranted RMA and it will also cost me about $25.00 to send it from Canada to the USA. Not worth my time or money IMO and I am betting they will find nothing wrong with it.

The Powecolor gets a good review below but perhaps they didn't go into enough depth with it to give a conclusive opinion? I see some people on the Corsair forum have not been having the best of luck with their PSUs. One guy had to return his 850TX twice. I've read a couple of other reviews too and they were also favorable. Mind you, I don't know if I like the 12v being on 4 rails as it is only 19amp per rail. I see some people say one single rail is best for SLI/Xfire configs.

http://www.pureoverclock.com/article1166.html

From a functional standpoint, the Extreme PX has very good voltage regulation and efficiency, requiring an extremely hungry system to tax this beast. With four rails and 960W available for them, you need a very hardcore and expensive system to push the Extreme PX 1000W. That being said, if you are fortunate to have such a system, this PowerColor unit will respond eagerly, providing strong and stable power for your setup in an efficient manner.

Ever been to this website? Has a good database of PSUs.

http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page5472.htm
 
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That site does not test PSUs very well. You will find people having issues with quality PSUs from any brand, Corsair included. The more popular the brand, the more cases of faulty units you will hear about. That doesn't mean Corsair PSUs are bad. In fact, I would take a Corsair HX1000 over that Powercolor PSU any day, and I don't even consider the Corsair to be especially great compared to more modern 1000W PSUs (though it is still a good unit).

It seems like you're fixated on Powercolor PSUs. Keep in mind that you generally get what you pay for; Corsair PSUs are more expensive, but they're also better. However, there are good quality PSUs that cost less than Corsair products.
 
I'm not fixated on them, just figured it might be good bang for the buck. I have two Seasonic's and one PC Power&Cooling so that gives an idea of what I usually buy. I'm also interested in this PC P&C 910w but they still insist on using 80mm fans and I don't want a noisy PSU. But all it is is another Seasonic modified. And 2 bad PSUs in a row from Corsair does not bode well for QC IMO, the TX is mostly Seasonic also. Maybe Johnny Guru who raves about Corsair is not so reliable either. Powercolor is using Solytech and am interested in trying out another OEM I have never used before. Which PSU would you choose?

http://++++.com/products/?sku=57846&vpn=PPCS910&manufacture=PC Power & Cooling

Also interested in Silverstone Strider 1000w

Read this thread though, I think my issue is very similar and it is a MB voltage issue and not the PSU itself. I am OC so will set bios to default and weed out the problem eventually even if it means new mb and/or PSU.

http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1091621&sid=1d35273d6df87fee38a995a794507db4
 
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That websites testing methodology is flawed. You need something like a SunMoon PSU loader to max it out.
 
Gnasher said:
I'm not fixated on them, just figured it might be good bang for the buck. I have two Seasonic's and one PC Power&Cooling so that gives an idea of what I usually buy. I'm also interested in this PC P&C 910w but they still insist on using 80mm fans and I don't want a noisy PSU. But all it is is another Seasonic modified. And 2 bad PSUs in a row from Corsair does not bode well for QC IMO, the TX is mostly Seasonic also. Maybe Johnny Guru who raves about Corsair is not so reliable either. Powercolor is using Solytech and am interested in trying out another OEM I have never used before. Which PSU would you choose?
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JonnyGURU reviews are some of the best out there. Their reliability isn't in question. Since we haven't established whether or not this problem is a PSU or motherboard issue in the first place, saying that Corsair and Seasonic PSUs aren't great is very premature, since the PSUs might have nothing to do with the problem. I'm inclined to believe that, since you've already tried two good Seasonic units and it hasn't helped. Before you go shopping around for new PSUs, I think you should explore the possibility that the motherboard is causing this.

As for the Powercolor PSU, it's your money. If you want to buy it, buy it. But it's not what I'd do.
 
Looks like I may not need a new PSU after all, woot! . Today I turned off the OC on my CPU and also turned off Speedstep. I then turned off auto-voltage control on both ram and cpu. Set cpu to 115.0v and ram to 1.60v. Put second 5870 back in and fired her up. Turned on with no tripping over at all but need to start PC from a cold start a few more times to make sure I have solved the issue.

Next I will go back to CPU OC mode and see how it goes. I see with Speedstep and auto voltage CPU voltage would fluctuate between 0.80v and 1.24v depending on speed of cpu. Perhaps with the OC and auto-voltage my CPU was not always getting enough juice from a cold start and that was causing the tripping so will now control voltages manually and use a fixed OC. That's what the other thread I posted suggest was his issue too. Can't say for certain yet but is looking good so far.

I read a review on that Kingwin, think it was at Johnny Guru and it was ok but not exceptional. Last night I decided if I was going to buy a new PSU it was most likely to be the Corsair HX 1000w and the Silverstone Strider Gold 1000w as a second choice. I see NCeeIX has a good deal on the Mushkin 1000w for only $99.00 right now but not all user comments were favourable.
 
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Well, back from testing it with OC and it is NFG again. It's either no OC and two vid cards or OC with just one vid card so I have opted for OC with one vid card for now.
 
Just to follow up my issue. I replaced the PSU and now it is running with 2x5870 just fine so it was a crap Seasonic 850w, two in a row too. And I never went with any of the recommended PSUs because NCeeIX had a super deal on Mushkin 1000w for $99.00 so chanced it. This PSU allows me to use combined or split 12v rails too. I set it to combined because I read that is better for SLI/Crossfire.
 
Gnasher said:
Just to follow up my issue. I replaced the PSU and now it is running with 2x5870 just fine so it was a crap Seasonic 850w, two in a row too. And I never went with any of the recommended PSUs because NCeeIX had a super deal on Mushkin 1000w for $99.00 so chanced it. This PSU allows me to use combined or split 12v rails too. I set it to combined because I read that is better for SLI/Crossfire.
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Not really... as long as the rails are balanced properly (right amount of connectors for the amperage rating on the rail), multi-rail is equal to, or better than single rail, depending on the power supply.
 
Well, here is what I don't get about that. The specs say 78amp total on 12v rails and yet it lists 6x12v rails on the side of the PSU. 6x19 = 114. Anyway, I am using it in combined mode with no issues so it will stay that way for now.
 
The combined limit is always lower than the sum of the individual limits. The reason for this is so you can put more load on some rails and less on others and still be able to use the full capacity of the PSU.
 
OK, thanks, that makes sense. I see the Seasonic X series uses single 12v rail and that is their premium PSU so there must be a good reason for it.
 
Marketing is the only good reason for it. Technically speaking, having multiple rails is usually better than a large single rail.
 
Technically speaking, having multiple rails is usually better than a large single rail.
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It is... my AX1200 would throw well over 100 amps out before it even thinks of tripping. That's a disaster waiting to happen!

Touch wood it never fails :)
 
Single rail is usually cheaper to design than multi rail, but in well designed power supplies, the multi-rail vs single rail argument hardly applies.
 
Zero82z said:
Marketing is the only good reason for it. Technically speaking, having multiple rails is usually better than a large single rail.
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Disagree. The only reason they went to multiple rails is because Intel specified it as a safety precaution and not because it is better. I can find for you multiple various forum posts that claim single 12v is better for SLI/Xfire.

Anyway, the $99.00 Mushkin 1000w configured as a single 12v rail is working great so far so I saved myself $168.00 by not buying a Corsair 1000w. The Corair HX1000w was going for $269.00 CAD where I shop online.
 
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Gnasher said:
Disagree. The only reason they went to multiple rails is because Intel specified it as a safety precaution and not because it is better. I can find for you multiple various forum posts that claim single 12v is better for SLI/Xfire.
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A properly-configured multi-rail PSU with reasonable OCP limits is safer than a PSU with a large single rail. That is a fact, not an opinion. And safer is better.
 
But we are not discussing safety, which is the only reason for multi rail existing in the first place, the person above was claiming it is a better design for providing power, which is not true. I'm betting my Seasonic S-12 850w was inadequate because it was multi-rail while the Seasonic rep told me the X series 850w would handle my Xfire fine and it is single 12v rail. The X series cost more than the S-12 series so where is this cost savings that was claimed? You guys are making it sound like only cheap PSUs use single 12v rails which is not true either. My new Mushkin PSU can use either split or single. Why would they do that if split is superior anyway? Calling in the bluff.
 
Gnasher said:
But we are not discussing safety, which is the only reason for multi rail existing in the first place, the person above was claiming it is a better design for providing power, which is not true.
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I said multi-rail PSUs are better overall. I didn't say they are better "for providing power." Why are they better? Because they are safer.
Gnasher said:
I'm betting my Seasonic S-12 850w was inadequate because it was multi-rail while the Seasonic rep told me the X series 850w would handle my Xfire fine and it is single 12v rail.
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That's not true. I don't know why that Seasonic didn't work for you, but I know it isn't because its rails weren't powerful enough. The two overclocked video cards in my second PC consume more power than a pair of 5870s, and those cards are running off a 750W PSU, and one with multiple rails, no less. That's proof enough that your theory is wrong.
Gnasher said:
The X series cost more than the S-12 series so where is this cost savings that was claimed?
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The X series is more expensive because the rest of the design is more expensive. If there were two PSUs, one with a large single rail and the other with multiple rails and proper OCP but otherwise identical, the one with a single rail would be slightly less expensive to produce.
Gnasher said:
My new Mushkin PSU can use either split or single. Why would they do that if split is superior anyway?
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Marketing. They're trying to appeal to uninformed people like you who have bought into the idea that single rail PSUs are better. It's the same reason XFX is littering their PSU boxes with false single-rail marketing nonsense. That doesn't make it true.
 
Zero82z said:
Marketing. They're trying to appeal to uninformed people like you who have bought into the idea that single rail PSUs are better. It's the same reason XFX is littering their PSU boxes with false single-rail marketing nonsense. That doesn't make it true.
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Well, I can show you plenty of articles from people and not marketing propaganda that says single rail 12v is better. I guess they are all wrong though and only HardOCP users know the truth.
 
Gnasher said:
Well, I can show you plenty of articles from people and not marketing propaganda that says single rail 12v is better. I guess they are all wrong though and only HardOCP users know the truth.
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And if you ask the people who wrote those articles to give an accurate technical explanation of why a single rail is better than multiple rails, I would bet you dollars to doughnuts that they wouldn't be able to. On the other hand, I've already given a pretty good explanation of why multiple rails are technically better, although I can go into more detail if you'd like. I can also link you to explanations by other people, and I'll even point you towards this site made by Antec, which does an alright job of explaining things (although it exaggerates the disadvantages of single-rail designs): http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/PSU/index.php

I'm not the only one saying this. I'm just the only person you're talking to. The problem is that if you aren't an expert on the subject, it's difficult to tell who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't. I don't blame you for that, but I think you should recognize that the fact that a lot of people say the same thing doesn't mean it's true. What matters is the reasoning behind the statement.
 
Doesn't it make sense that they would lie about the benefit of multi-rail over single rail when that is what Intel has mandated? I can switch it back to multi-rail, which was its default config but see no convincing reason to yet.
 
Proper multi-rail setups limit the amount of current going through each connector to prevent any possible overcurrent and possibly burning the wire. It's a safety feature, and should not be associated in any way to performance. Your power supply will perform the same whether it's on a single-rail system or multi-rail system.

Like I said earlier, in properly designed quality power supplies, the multi-rail vs single-rail argument hardly applies. On a personal note, I prefer single rail because it just seems easier to deal with, and you don't have to worry about balancing the rails. In a properly laid out power supply (like the Antec ones with one or two PCI-E connector per rail), this is hardly a concern.
 
Gnasher said:
Doesn't it make sense that they would lie about the benefit of multi-rail over single rail when that is what Intel has mandated? I can switch it back to multi-rail, which was its default config but see no convincing reason to yet.
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The limitations on maximum current per rail haven't been in the ATX specification for a while, and even when they were, many manufacturers didn't follow them in the first place. Many Seasonic-built PSUs, including the Corsair HX520 and HX620, were labeled as multi-rail units when in reality they lacked any sort of OCP. It was cheaper for Seasonic to lie about it than actually implement real OCP.
 
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