is there a way to get to ddr4 4600 with my setup?

You may be able to push past 3800 but you will get best performance with the highest IF speed which usually tops our between 3600-3800 RAM speed and once you go over that RAM speed the IF runs at half the RAM speed to maintain stability and this loses performance.
So most aim for 3600-3800 with tight timings.
 
dasa said:
You may be able to push past 3800 but you will get best performance with the highest IF speed which usually tops our between 3600-3800 RAM speed and once you go over that RAM speed the IF runs at half the RAM speed to maintain stability and this loses performance.
So most aim for 3600-3800 with tight timings.
Click to expand...

I'm curious about this. So I won't see gains at 4400 with Ryzen? Is there a way to get a good IF at 4400 without giving me issues? I saw some setups with Ryzen and DDR 4 @ 4400/4600, so I'm sure not sure if they were getting half the performance or were able to those speeds without ruining the IF
 
They wont have been getting half the performance but the IF would have been running half the speed of the RAM which results in a latency hit.
Bandwidth is also largely limited by the memory controller so higher RAM frequency makes minimal difference to bandwidth.

Lots of benchmarks out there if you search and while there is some cases where higher frequency results in higher performance in most programs runing the RAM\IF at 1:2 instead of 1:1 lowers performance.

Ryzen 5600X can sometimes run ~4000 1:1 but most chips gets WHEA errors over ~3733.
Ryzen 5600G\5700G can run higher IF but the CPU themselves perform slower than 5600X\5700X.
 
etegv said:
I'm curious about this. So I won't see gains at 4400 with Ryzen? Is there a way to get a good IF at 4400 without giving me issues? I saw some setups with Ryzen and DDR 4 @ 4400/4600, so I'm sure not sure if they were getting half the performance or were able to those speeds without ruining the IF
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No, there is a sweet spot with Ryzen CPU's of around 3733MHz-3800MHz for the Ryzen 3000 series. The Ryzen CPU's operate best when the memory and infinity fabric clock speed ratio is 1:1. Essentially, the FCLK (Infinity Fabric) clock speed needs to remain at 1800MHz or less for stability. Running it beyond that and maintaining that 1:1 ratio gets dicey and it generally doesn't work. Conversely, running at a MCLK/FCLK ratio of 2:1 results in increased latency and usually impacts performance negatively outside of select circumstances. You can theoretically overcome this with extremely high clock speeds, but there aren't very many (if any) memory controllers, motherboards and memory module combinations that can achieve that in reality.

There is also the fact that increased memory clocks reach a point of diminishing returns very quickly in most applications. We've had the option for quad-channel memory mode operation in the HEDT market for years and when comparing similar core counts and CPU architectures, that extra bandwidth has amounted to very little in terms of real world gains in most consumer level applications or games.
 
Dan_D said:
No, there is a sweet spot with Ryzen CPU's of around 3733MHz-3800MHz for the Ryzen 3000 series. The Ryzen CPU's operate best when the memory and infinity fabric clock speed ratio is 1:1. Essentially, the FCLK (Infinity Fabric) clock speed needs to remain at 1800MHz or less for stability. Running it beyond that and maintaining that 1:1 ratio gets dicey and it generally doesn't work. Conversely, running at a MCLK/FCLK ratio of 2:1 results in increased latency and usually impacts performance negatively outside of select circumstances. You can theoretically overcome this with extremely high clock speeds, but there aren't very many (if any) memory controllers, motherboards and memory module combinations that can achieve that in reality.

There is also the fact that increased memory clocks reach a point of diminishing returns very quickly in most applications. We've had the option for quad-channel memory mode operation in the HEDT market for years and when comparing similar core counts and CPU architectures, that extra bandwidth has amounted to very little in terms of real world gains in most consumer level applications or games.
Click to expand...
dasa said:
They wont have been getting half the performance but the IF would have been running half the speed of the RAM which results in a latency hit.
Bandwidth is also largely limited by the memory controller so higher RAM frequency makes minimal difference to bandwidth.

Lots of benchmarks out there if you search and while there is some cases where higher frequency results in higher performance in most programs runing the RAM\IF at 1:2 instead of 1:1 lowers performance.

Ryzen 5600X can sometimes run ~4000 1:1 but most chips gets WHEA errors over ~3733.
Ryzen 5600G\5700G can run higher IF but the CPU themselves perform slower than 5600X\5700X.
Click to expand...

ok, so it seems like there is no need to go over DDR4 - 3800 with Ryzen? I was hoping to get more performance by going over 4000, but I guess that won't happen. I don't understand why mobo makers put these all specs on their website. What's the point of stating that it supports 4600 if there's no benefit? Gimmick?


What about Intel setups that do over DDR4 4000 and 5000? Are they getting more performance than Ryzen setups with DDR 4 3600/3800? Both setups have a 5700 XT and similar CPUS, but the Ryzet setup has DDR4 3600 and the Intel setups have DDR4 4600 and DDR 4 5000

thanks for the info and help. I will check the video
 
etegv said:
ok, so it seems like there is no need to go over DDR4 - 3800 with Ryzen? I was hoping to get more performance by going over 4000, but I guess that won't happen. I don't understand why mobo makers put these all specs on their website. What's the point of stating that it supports 4600 if there's no benefit? Gimmick?
Click to expand...
The motherboard manufacturers do it for a number of reasons. Primarily, advertising that their motherboards can overclock RAM. There is a such thing as competitive overclocking and showing a given board can achieve certain speed is as much for marketing as it is anything else.
etegv said:
What about Intel setups that do over DDR4 4000 and 5000? Are they getting more performance than Ryzen setups with DDR 4 3600/3800? Both setups have a 5700 XT and similar CPUS, but the Ryzen setup has DDR4 3600 and the Intel setups have DDR4 4600 and DDR 4 5000
Click to expand...
Intel memory controllers are more flexible than their AMD counterparts. More than that, they don't have an Infinity Fabric and thus don't have the same constraints. Intel CPU's can more easily use 4x DIMMs at the same time and reach speeds well in excess of DDR4 4000MHz or even 5000MHz relatively easily. However, Intel CPU's also don't benefit from lower latency modules the way AMD CPU based systems do.
 
New Intel CPU have a gear 2 mode for high memory speeds which has a performance impact much like 1:1 vs 1:2 on Ryzen and it also kicks in around 3600-4000.

The only thing higher RAM speed does is improve CPU performance in programs that overflow the L3 cache. So it is not like you are missing out on performance due to running a lower RAM speed on one platform or another but if they perform close and one can run a higher RAM speed then that may give it the edge.
The best improvement you can get on both platforms is to take the time to tweak the sub timings as this can bring a nice boost to CPU performance in programs that do overflow the CPU cache.
 
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