Is there a style of cooling that is better than water but still practical?

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topcaliber

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Basically the title ^.


Is there a style of cooling that cools better than water cooling yet is practical?

Even experimental ideas?


ps: not phase change...
 
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Well, the mineral oil bath isn't very practical, but phase change cooling isn't too bad.
 
Move somewhere cold and keep the window open if you're looking for cheap, but cost shouldn't be a concern if you're looking for something that performs better then a custom water setup.
 
topcaliber said:
Moving doesn't sound cheap.
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You can make it as cheap or as expensive as you want to. You're the one concerned about power use. If energy costs are that important to you, then you probably want to relocate cooler place with cheaper energy rates, it's win all around for you.
 
I'm not really trying to do anything, atleast not now. I'm just interested in ideas and having a discussion.
 
Anyone here used the mineral oil bath method? It always intrigued me, but I never tried it. Any performance figures?
 
Yakk said:
Anyone here used the mineral oil bath method? It always intrigued me, but I never tried it. Any performance figures?
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It is just for fun.

The fact that it just works is more impressive than its performance.
 
If you're not adverse to water cooling, you could use a water chiller with it, but it's going to use power.
 
Yakk said:
Anyone here used the mineral oil bath method? It always intrigued me, but I never tried it. Any performance figures?
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They're at the top of the list for the Green500. I was talking to the guys at SC13 and they said you could pull it out of the oil long enough to replace hot-swap components without having to shut them down first. It still seemed really messy though, I wouldn't have to work on them on a daily basis.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/b...energy-efficiency-in-supercomputers.html?_r=0
 
Any sub-ambient cooling is going to use significant amounts of power. Think air conditioners and refrigerators. Those all use enormous amounts of energy to cool things below ambient. Phase change is by far the most efficient of sub-ambient cooling in terms of energy usage. Well, maybe bong (swamp) coolers are more efficient, but then you have to deal with water loss and humidity.
 
Tsumi said:
Any sub-ambient cooling is going to use significant amounts of power. Think air conditioners and refrigerators. Those all use enormous amounts of energy to cool things below ambient. Phase change is by far the most efficient of sub-ambient cooling in terms of energy usage. Well, maybe bong (swamp) coolers are more efficient, but then you have to deal with water loss and humidity.
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It isn't really reasonable to use AC and refrigerators as examples.

An AC has to cool an entire house or room, and a fridge/freezer same thing.

All we are trying to do is cool a little bit of water.
 
topcaliber said:
Basically the title ^.


Is there a style of cooling that cools better than water cooling yet is practical?

Even experimental ideas?


ps: not phase change...
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If money is no object, placing the computer on the dard side of the moon is reasonable.

There are huge computer systems - server farms, and multi-cpu systems that do a lot more processing than any of us do. They seem to stay cool enough.

So there are lots of better cooling ideas. Most people chose not to use them.
 
topcaliber said:
It isn't really reasonable to use AC and refrigerators as examples.

An AC has to cool an entire house or room, and a fridge/freezer same thing.

All we are trying to do is cool a little bit of water.
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They are reasonable examples because they do the same damn thing.

There is also a reason why all ACs and refrigerators use phase change. It's by far the most efficient form of sub-ambient cooling.

Your other alternative is to use tap water to cool your system, and dump it down the drain after it runs through your system once. Which would incur a rather large water bill. Or, build a large underground reservoir or heat exchanger, as the ground tends to be cooler than the air. None of which are cost effective either.
 
I did a water chiller setup. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1702975&highlight=makeroflostsouls. Was able to get my temps down to 8c with out any condensation issues. Works pretty well but the Chiller is pretty damn loud lol. Why I don't have it any more. If you have a way to get it out of your room then you would be good. You just need a big unit to cool a high end computer well. And those run in the 1200-1500 rang. Or be like me and pick one up off carigslist on the cheap lol. I'm just going to stick with water cooling. Works well and it's quiet lol.
 
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Makeroflostsouls said:
I did a water chiller setup. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1702975&highlight=makeroflostsouls. Was able to get my temps down to 12c with out any condensation issues. Works pretty well but the Chiller is pretty damn loud lol. Why I don't have it any more. If you have a way to get it out of your room then you would be good. You just need a big unit to cool a high end computer well. And those run in the 1200-1500 rang. Or be like me and pick one up off carigslist on the cheap lol. I'm just going to stick with water cooling. Works well and it's quiet lol.
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Thank you for a good post.

Very interesting what you did here.

How did you not get condensation though?
 
The short answer is no

the slightly longer answer is that there is nothing more practical than water for ambient cooling, and sub-ambient cooling almost by definition will never be "practical". If you want to define practical very broadly, you can make quite a few compromises to get to sub ambient temps while being practical in one or two aspects, but none of them are anywhere near the practicality level across the board that water has (modest cost, good performance, quiet, efficient and self contained). Most will be noisy, hot, expensive (start up and running costs) and require consideration for condensation.

If there was, people would be using it!
 
topcaliber said:
Thank you for a good post.

Very interesting what you did here.

How did you not get condensation though?
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You have to find out what the dew point of your room is. The lower the dew point the further below your ambient temp you can go before you get condensation. So say your room temp is 72F and your RH(relative humidity) is 50% you can go down to a water temp of 52F before you will get any condensation. In my post on the water chiller there is a humidity and temp reader on top of the box. That way I could keep tabs on the humidity in the room. My setup was in my basement so my RH stayed around 50% but in a normal room you should be around 35% and that would let you go down to 42F in a room that's 72F. Then nice water chillers all have a temp system where you can set the water temp you want. It's crazy putting you hands on your water tubs and them being cold to the touch like almost ice cold.
 
Makeroflostsouls said:
You have to find out what the dew point of your room is. The lower the dew point the further below your ambient temp you can go before you get condensation. So say your room temp is 72F and your RH(relative humidity) is 50% you can go down to a water temp of 52F before you will get any condensation. In my post on the water chiller there is a humidity and temp reader on top of the box. That way I could keep tabs on the humidity in the room. My setup was in my basement so my RH stayed around 50% but in a normal room you should be around 35% and that would let you go down to 42F in a room that's 72F. Then nice water chillers all have a temp system where you can set the water temp you want. It's crazy putting you hands on your water tubs and them being cold to the touch like almost ice cold.
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Yeah I found a dew point calculator on the web, very very useful.

I'm trying to see if there are other ways to combat water condensation. This is surely a challenge. :D
 
Cant believe this hasnt been mentioned. Evaporative/Swamp/Bong chillers. brings the portability of your setup to diddly squat, needs to be refilled, and will most likely require you flush and clean your loop often, but it works.
 
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