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Is the Toledo worth it?

A

Attean

Gawd
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
697
Im going back and forth between the 3800+ (price) and the 4400+ (stability). I plan to overclock a little bit in my latest build (Id be happy with a stable, cool 2.4). Getting an Xp-120 with a Yoony and a DFI.
 
I'm confused as to why you would to refer to the toledo as the "stable" choice? It should be a matter of price/performance. I do not see how the Toledo would be anymore stable. If you have the $ money, Toledo will be worth it. By the 3800, are you referring to the lowest level x2? If so, it does present much more value, but make no mistake, Toledo is faster. I plan on going Toledo someday when I can afford it. On the other hand, when I debated, it was sandy or winchester/venice, I simply went with more bang for buck. Either will easily hit 2.4, no sweat.
 
My toledo has definitely agreed with the "hitting 2.4 with no sweat" I reached it without noticing any temp increase. XP-120 seems to keep it cool. Once I get more time I am plannin on crankin as much out of it as I can.
 
wadec22 said:
I'm confused as to why you would to refer to the toledo as the "stable" choice? It should be a matter of price/performance. I do not see how the Toledo would be anymore stable. If you have the $ money, Toledo will be worth it. By the 3800, are you referring to the lowest level x2? If so, it does present much more value, but make no mistake, Toledo is faster. I plan on going Toledo someday when I can afford it. On the other hand, when I debated, it was sandy or winchester/venice, I simply went with more bang for buck. Either will easily hit 2.4, no sweat.
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Well, it would be more stable because I'd be hitting 2.4 with both. So, the toledo would be more likely to be stable running at 2.4 than the x2 3800.

Cool, thx guys... good to know theyd both hit it. Would the toledo's extra cache be worth the $$$ running at 2.4?
 
this makes no logical sense, but from a marketing standpoint it is very worthy of consideration.

an athlon x2 4400 is basically 2 a64 3700+ cores, while the x2 3800 is basically 2 3200+s.
think about the difference between 3700 and 3200. it's 500. now multiply that by two. 1000. you're basically getting a chip that is 1000 better if you get the x2 4400. when you consider the number of effective PR points the difference is, the price difference between the two chips seems minimal. [/stupid]

PR ratings really don't make sense anymore, but i think the multiplier, and more importantly the cache size is what sets the chips apart. i was considering the 3800, but coming from an a64 3500, i wanted to make no compromises. the 4400+ is really the sweet spot in AMD's X2 lineup--it's right smack in the middle. They may overclock to the same points, but you can't get the 1mb L2 cache on anything less than a 4400. (so you can't ever brag that you have the equivalent of dual FX-57s with your higher clocks)

also to get the same clock with the 3800's lower multiplier, you'll have to raise your FSB higher which could mean more stress on your mobo and ram. sure you can run a divider, but if you have an actively cooled chipset, the fan might get annoyingly whiney at the higher FSBs.

i went for the 4400+ because i knew that i would regret it later if i got anything less. ymmv.
 
The extra cache really doesn't offer much more performance, the benches speak for themselves. However, I'd get a toledo core 3800+, it doesn't have the extra cache, but it will OC a smidge better than the manchesters on average.
 
Zinn said:
this makes no logical sense, but from a marketing standpoint it is very worthy of consideration.

an athlon x2 4400 is basically 2 a64 3700+ cores, while the x2 3800 is basically 2 3200+s.
think about the difference between 3700 and 3200. it's 500. now multiply that by two. 1000. you're basically getting a chip that is 1000 better if you get the x2 4400. when you consider the number of effective PR points the difference is, the price difference between the two chips seems minimal. [/stupid]

PR ratings really don't make sense anymore, but i think the multiplier, and more importantly the cache size is what sets the chips apart. i was considering the 3800, but coming from an a64 3500, i wanted to make no compromises. the 4400+ is really the sweet spot in AMD's X2 lineup--it's right smack in the middle. They may overclock to the same points, but you can't get the 1mb L2 cache on anything less than a 4400. (so you can't ever brag that you have the equivalent of dual FX-57s with your higher clocks)

also to get the same clock with the 3800's lower multiplier, you'll have to raise your FSB higher which could mean more stress on your mobo and ram. sure you can run a divider, but if you have an actively cooled chipset, the fan might get annoyingly whiney at the higher FSBs.

i went for the 4400+ because i knew that i would regret it later if i got anything less. ymmv.
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Heh. nice. You sound as if you're justifying your purchase more than trying to persuade me which is my situation in a nutshell. The enthusiast in me says "never buy the latest greatest, cuz youll get ripped off" like I've told countless people in the past. But the person in me who has $3400 for a new system is like "fuck ocing, go for broke". 4400+ it is :) unless I can get substantially better performance out of something else...like if I were to cut down on a few things and get sli 7800 or a 2405fpw to name a few... :)

I just want to avoid 6 months from now feeling like I got ripped off...which I know will happen if I spend this much money on a computer. Luckilly Im putting a good deal of it into hard-drives, a wacom tablet, and a monitor...stuff that doesn't really degenerate in value...ok I'm done justifying. :p
 
I was in the same boat as you. I couldnt justify for goin for broke on the proc. I felt like 6 months down the road I'd feel better with the 4400+ and its 1MB of cache and I could OC it if need be. The 3800 just didnt have enough for me I guess. Its hard to base ur own purchase on others opinions....thast why I really only used these forums to find various scores before I made my leap.
 
Amd doesnt offer a low end 1mb chip because they know no one would buy the 4400. :D
 
Attean said:
Amd doesnt offer a low end 1mb chip because they know no one would buy the 4400. :D
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Nice reply...and I am sure a chip maker intent on making money releases products thinking they wont sell.
 
jdunner3 said:
Nice reply...and I am sure a chip maker intent on making money releases products thinking they wont sell.
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That wasn't my point. The point was I was trying to find humor in the situation. And if they released a 4000 x2 or whatever they would be pushing their own price points down for an already power user cpu and we know how to overclock.
 
Attean said:
Heh. nice. You sound as if you're justifying your purchase more than trying to persuade me which is my situation in a nutshell. The enthusiast in me says "never buy the latest greatest, cuz youll get ripped off" like I've told countless people in the past. But the person in me who has $3400 for a new system is like "fuck ocing, go for broke". 4400+ it is :) unless I can get substantially better performance out of something else...like if I were to cut down on a few things and get sli 7800 or a 2405fpw to name a few... :)

I just want to avoid 6 months from now feeling like I got ripped off...which I know will happen if I spend this much money on a computer. Luckilly Im putting a good deal of it into hard-drives, a wacom tablet, and a monitor...stuff that doesn't really degenerate in value...ok I'm done justifying. :p
Click to expand...

Get sli 7800GTX's, a 2405 fpw, and watercooling (at least). Then you won't feel ripped off.

And the 4400+ isn't worth it imho. 3800+s have been hitting 2.6ghz all over the place. And teh cache doesn't matter.
 
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