I have two triple 120 xspc rads. I have 3x gentle typhoon ap-15 on each of them in push. Now I was wondering if anyone knows or has thought on if its practicle to go push/pull on each or is it not cost effective to justify the cost of 6 more GT's.
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Is it worth going push/pull?
- Thread starter rjolin01
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Tsumi
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With RX and RS radiators, no, not really. With a high FPI radiator like GTX and GTS radiators, yes.
No matter what fans combo's I have tried, the various rads I have used - I have always found better cooling with push/pull configs - but that is just my experience. Other "experts" could detail out how they can prove one is better than the other - I say find out for yourself and see if you find a difference. Personally I think Push/Pull is necessary,but it depends on how much heat you really are generating, the flow rate you are passing your liquid through the blocks, etc.
Do you have control over your pump speeds? Do not get caught up in thinking you need to be ripping the water through the blocks with multiple pumps, or extreme high flow pumps on low resistance loops. You would find much better results Push/pull aside from working with your flow speeds. I like to think of it as "low and slow" - consider as the water is going through the block, it needs time to absorb the heat as it passes, if you are shoving the water through at breakneck speeds - its not sucking any heat out. Same goes at the cooling end - if the water is ripping through the rad and not giving the time for the fans to suck the heat out of the water as it passes through - your cooling efficiency just went into the toilet. So if you wanted to do something to better improve your cooling - I would consider flow rates first. Just my two cents - hope it helps.
Do you have control over your pump speeds? Do not get caught up in thinking you need to be ripping the water through the blocks with multiple pumps, or extreme high flow pumps on low resistance loops. You would find much better results Push/pull aside from working with your flow speeds. I like to think of it as "low and slow" - consider as the water is going through the block, it needs time to absorb the heat as it passes, if you are shoving the water through at breakneck speeds - its not sucking any heat out. Same goes at the cooling end - if the water is ripping through the rad and not giving the time for the fans to suck the heat out of the water as it passes through - your cooling efficiency just went into the toilet. So if you wanted to do something to better improve your cooling - I would consider flow rates first. Just my two cents - hope it helps.
FaRKle0079
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This is fundamentally wrong advice. Your statement assumes that the water will have the same amount of heat per volume regardless of flow. If that's the case then yes, less heat will be dissipated in the radiator and more of it retained and recycled in the next loop. However, you also contradict yourself by saying "needs time to absorb the heat as it passes." If the water is moving fast, it absorbs less heat from the blocks per unit volume, and transfers less heat to the radiator per pass, but also cycles through more times which makes up and exceeds performance of the slower flow. Typically flow rates above 1.5gpm don't yield very large returns per flow increase, and that's why not many people use them, not because they reduce cooling capacity and result in worse temperatures. What metric are you using when you state "cooling efficiency?"
It's not going to net you 10C cooler temperatures that's for sure. You probably won't see more than 3C difference. If that's worth the cost to you then go ahead.
jojo69
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physics fail above re pump speed
I like push pull because I can run all the fans a bit slower for the same effect
I like push pull because I can run all the fans a bit slower for the same effect
+1
however, with thinner rads, i find that i get that warbling resonance sound going on as the fans mismatch their speeds.
Gotta have a thick rad + slow fans. The faster the fans go, the more warbly they get.
It depends on the fans you use, the thicker fans have a higher flow pressure for a given rate that they move air and so maintain more flow with higher air resistance.
I have always been in favor of the large delta fans because they can maintain flow through some pretty tight restrictions, the thinner fans made to be really quiet are just not as effective, they are great going through a fan grill just not my heatercore.
If you do go push-pull watch for air leaks and keep your fan RPMs matched up to keep from creating dead spots on multi-fan radiators.
I have always been in favor of the large delta fans because they can maintain flow through some pretty tight restrictions, the thinner fans made to be really quiet are just not as effective, they are great going through a fan grill just not my heatercore.
If you do go push-pull watch for air leaks and keep your fan RPMs matched up to keep from creating dead spots on multi-fan radiators.
First of all I am going to agree to disagree with you on this. It also depends on hardware and what fans, rad, and everything else in the mix. That is what finding your balance is all about. There are plenty of experts to tell you how this and that goes and people that can quote you stats on both sides of the fence, but with each loops unique use of the various hardware items, finding that loops best balance is what matters.
Point is, water cooling is finding a balance between your fan speeds, radiators heat dissipation capabilities, pump speeds etc - then find the mix that works for you. Personally I set my ERM unit on a pump speed of 3 I get terrific performance, I can stress and game for hours without ever exceeding 55-59c on most everything. I kick the pump to 5-6 and my temps go up, I kick the pump up more and my temps go up, I drop my speed to 1-2 and my temps go up. I find 3-4 is my magic setting for pump speed. Fans vary depending on temp automatically, but generally run around 50%. So for me that is a personal experience and what I get with my loop. Another factor is your ambient temps, humidity and so on - we can go into all kinds of things that could or would be right/wrong, affect you, will not affect you, etc - as most of us do, we all have our opinions..............
FaRKle0079
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Ever consider heat dump from your pump? As your pump increases the flow it also dumps more and more heat into the loop. Now, unless you're talking about some ridiculous amount of change like 5-10C, which is probably beyond the heat output of a standard DDC/D5, I wouldn't strictly rule that "flow rate" is the cause of your increases.
This pump talk is fairly OT. A lot depends on your setup. Low restriction blocks don't benefit from high pump power, however even a block like the rasa on a cpu only loop benefits from above average pumping power:
You can see as you increase pumping power you add more heat to the loop from the pumps. Finding the balance for your setup is a good idea.
Back to the OP. Push/Pull helps even on low flow rads. However yes it will depend on your exact setup as to how much it will change. As an estimate it tends to be roughly ~10% reduction in load to ambient temp deltas. AP15's are expensive, so I haven't bothered to go push/pull on my 2 rx360's because I don't think it's worth spending another $100 on fans.
You can see as you increase pumping power you add more heat to the loop from the pumps. Finding the balance for your setup is a good idea.
Back to the OP. Push/Pull helps even on low flow rads. However yes it will depend on your exact setup as to how much it will change. As an estimate it tends to be roughly ~10% reduction in load to ambient temp deltas. AP15's are expensive, so I haven't bothered to go push/pull on my 2 rx360's because I don't think it's worth spending another $100 on fans.