Is it just me, or is vista's GUI ugly?

V

vineswingman

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Messages
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I keep seeing people talking about Vista's Aero UI and how great it looks, and i've even seen people comparing it to OSX. What kind of crack are they smoking, because it must be some good shit? I think it looks awful, i've seen better home-made skins for windows xp. I know that in b1 of winxp, the skin wasn't final, but I really really really hope MS cleans up that nasty skin and makes something good. Does any one else agree?
 
Agree or not, the screenshots of it have been released for well over a year...if not more. It doesn't look too bad after a while, but maybe at first because it's quite different. I for one, am happy that they finally have a black theme.
 
Does anyone even realize that it's a BETA? A lot can change between now and the final release.
 
Looks nice with the LDDM-enabled drivers on Nvidia cards...
 
Personally, I hate "fancy" and "pretty" GUI's, so I have to agree that it is ugly. Give me Windows Classic!
 
You can't really say the GUI is ugly when you have the ability to make it look however you want. The default theme may be ugly (I like it, however) but not the GUI itself.
 
You guys are overlooking the enhancements to explorer. Those should be pretty sweet and hopefully useful and cusomizable.
 
The black theme isn't that bad. It's just something different. My only gripe is the start menu. It just feels wierd. I'm probably just not used to it so for now it's wierd. Now if they can get some basic sound drivers in there i'd be happy with vista. BTW, longhorn sounds like a much better name than vista. IMO, vista gives the impression of being brittle. I guess it makes sense since it is still a beta. But back to the topic on hand the GUI is fine. The popup windows rising from inside the desktop is a nice touch.
 
Themes and fancy GUIs/3D Effects do not belong integrated into an operating system.
 
I'm really hoping that the current Aero theme is just placeholder material... but given how the theme has evolved since the early builds, I really doubt it. It seems to be the final or near-final look for Vista.

I just hope Vista is more customizable than XP is, especially as it relates to system icons and process replacement.


damicatz said:
Themes and fancy GUIs/3D Effects do not belong integrated into an operating system.
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Then continue typing into your command line prompt, and stop thread crapping.
 
damicatz said:
Themes and fancy GUIs/3D Effects do not belong integrated into an operating system.
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I'm fond of themes, it's a way to make things look and hopefully act in a way I prefer to the original. (For instance, by looking like another interface I'm used to.) As long as I'm the only user, I don't see a problem.
As for integrating a theme engine, it's not a very big addition for the OS makers, while hacking one in later is likely to be problematic.

As for fancyness, I'll live with it if it's optional and doesn't make things less useful, and when you've already got 3d support for perfectly good reasons (speeding up drawing and reducing CPU load), it's not a big overhead to add 3d eyecandy.

That said, my XP installs look like windows 2000, and I prefer an OS where the entire graphical system is an optional addon.
 
As far as I understand it, which could be all of about 2 feet but, this is not the final UI. Aero/Avalon is going to be completly different from what we are seeing now. This is just placeholder material to show us what can be done.
 
how's it fully customizable?? If it's like XP where all you do is change window frames and colors, i believe there is no point in it. My understanding of fully customizble is like fluxbox, icewm etc.. under linux, where you customize almost everything possible so you can end up with something you like.
 
ufster8 said:
how's it fully customizable?? If it's like XP where all you do is change window frames and colors, i believe there is no point in it. My understanding of fully customizble is like fluxbox, icewm etc.. under linux, where you customize almost everything possible so you can end up with something you like.
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I wouldn't be surprised to see windows rip this page out of the linux book and use it themself. I think it already looks linux'ish, so probably.
 
Don't expect much from Vista. Until MS decides to build a OS from scratch (never), there won't be much of an improvement. As for Vista's theme, it certainly isn't much new, it's however much cleaner looking than XP and some of the icons could be connected to OSX I suppose. Regardless, themes can be downloaded, I'm not worried about that. Just wish MS would give us something to really talk about.
 
It could be something to do with this


http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/cgi_directory/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000001

Microsoft's current plan for OpenGL on Windows Vista is to layer OpenGL over Direct3D in order to use OpenGL with a composited desktop to obtain the Aeroglass experience. If an OpenGL ICD is run - the desktop compositor will switch off - significantly degrading the user experience.

In practice this means for OpenGL under Aeroglass:

* OpenGL performance will be significantly reduced - perhaps as much as 50%
* OpenGL on Windows will be fixed at a vanilla version of OpenGL 1.4
* No extensions will be possible to expose future hardware innovations

It would be technically straightforward to provide an OpenGL ICD within the full Aeroglass experience without compromising the stability or the security of the operating system. Layering OpenGL over Direct3D is a policy more than a technical decision.
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Why would they do this!!!!
 
eeyrjmr said:
It could be something to do with this


http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/cgi_directory/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000001



Why would they do this!!!!
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I'm not so sure about this but I believe M$ makes a lot of money from companies using DirectX for games development. OpenGL might be considered an alternative (that means rival/archenemy in monopoly language) and by reducing performance of OpenGL games, they might push(force) companies into developing DirectX games hence increasing their income (fattening their bellies). It is utterly sad that a viable desktop linux doesn't seem probable any time soon, so software companies and users are stuck with M$ for at least another 2-3 years.
 
maranello575 said:
Don't expect much from Vista. Until MS decides to build a OS from scratch (never), there won't be much of an improvement.
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Windows 2000 was built from scratch. The core team who developed it began in the early 90's, and were originally from IBM's OS/2 team. It wasn't a continuation of NT4, it was what NT3 and 4 should have been. MMC snap-ins and a fully integrated device manager were concepts from way back that began early on in development for 2000 and were tried in prior OSes, but never to the extent they were for 2000 itself. Win2k was a complete revamp of the OS at the kernel level.

Whether it was for better or worse it up for debate, but they already started from scratch. They just had to put out product in the interim, or else they would have had to deal with as much bitching then as they're getting now about Vista taking so long.
 
ufster8 said:
I'm not so sure about this but I believe M$ makes a lot of money from companies using DirectX for games development. OpenGL might be considered an alternative (that means rival/archenemy in monopoly language) and by reducing performance of OpenGL games, they might push(force) companies into developing DirectX games hence increasing their income (fattening their bellies). It is utterly sad that a viable desktop linux doesn't seem probable any time soon, so software companies and users are stuck with M$ for at least another 2-3 years.
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anti-ms.gif

*the image is hosted on my space, but is © Penny Arcade*
 
I do agree on the essence of ^ that, but do not let that fool you into thinking that I believe undermining openGL anything less that a unethical, cynical move to make cross-platform development harder, enforcing a lock-in. Focusing on how he references Microsoft is a cheap way to dodge the issue; his arguments deserves better answers than an attempt to make fun of him.

(But ufster8: Do avoid spelling it "M$" in the future. It reflects badly on everyone that argues against Microsoft. And that strip is funny. :D )
 
Well, the strip is funny, however the poster is obviously not an adult so I'll let him get away with it. OpenGL is the platform that provided us games like Quake3, Doom3, RTCW and many more so if you don't care about it not being used anymore that's your problem. I see immense danger in one company handling all the source code necessary to develop games, many programmers will feel the same way I believe.
@ Granma ;) I don't care much about what MS does with their own software, as it's THEIRs, so I am not pissed at Gates or anyone as that strip implies. It's amazing how a simple mind like yours can read what I wrote, quote it, and it seems that the only thing you understand from it is how people respond at Microsoft... way to go dude, maybe sometime next decade you will learn to browse some web pages other than Penny Arcade and realise how dumb you have been all ur life.
 
I don't think its that bad after seeing so much of it. What I think is really ugly is IE7's GUI. WTF is going on there? Menu bar at the bottom instead of the top, and the placement of the icons for Home, RSS, etc. Looks awful. But, atleast I have Firefox. :)
 
ufster8 said:
Well, the strip is funny, however the poster is obviously not an adult so I'll let him get away with it. OpenGL is the platform that provided us games like Quake3, Doom3, RTCW and many more so if you don't care about it not being used anymore that's your problem. I see immense danger in one company handling all the source code necessary to develop games, many programmers will feel the same way I believe.
@ Granma ;) I don't care much about what MS does with their own software, as it's THEIRs, so I am not pissed at Gates or anyone as that strip implies. It's amazing how a simple mind like yours can read what I wrote, quote it, and it seems that the only thing you understand from it is how people respond at Microsoft... way to go dude, maybe sometime next decade you will learn to browse some web pages other than Penny Arcade and realise how dumb you have been all ur life.
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And yet you still have to descend into worthless epithets and juvenile attempts to get a rise out of me. That means my post worked. Now that you're paying attention:

Using the dollar sign is not only pointless, but is in itself an ad hom to a few who post here who happen to actually work for Microsoft. Go ahead and bitch about the policies of the company all you want, but do so with either a shred of evidence or a modicum of fucking cogence to your claim. It's a graphic interface to the operating system they wrote, not a way to undermine gaming development. If you think for a minute that Microsoft's policy would render inoperable compatibility with OpenGL just because it competes with DirectX—despite the wealth of game developers out there who use it—then you are spreading histrionics based on zero evidence and pure paranoia. That would be bad business for Microsoft, and if Microsoft is anything then it is a business that focuses on the bottom line. The fact that crap-ass 9x programs still operate on Windows XP is evidence that Microsoft doesn't ditch their coding base when launching a new platform.

In other words, don't start a flame war if you aren't going to come armed. You're making shit up out of thin air and you have nothing to substantiate your wild speculation. Let's keep the conversation based on facts and reality, not your wild imagination.
 
On this one matter, I trust these guys more than you. :)
(They might still be overly paranoid, of course. )

Ok, having read the details:
* Fullscreen apps might work fine
* OpenGL apps work fine in general but disable the 3d fancyness of aero when run, or they can go through the (much slower and locked at an old version) openGL->d3d - filter affair.

Not elegant, makes openGL a second-class citizen in some ways, but not quite the end of the world either. I still think it's partly an attempt to get more people to move to D3D.
 
GreNME said:
And yet you still have to descend into worthless epithets and juvenile attempts to get a rise out of me. That means my post worked. Now that you're paying attention:

Using the dollar sign is not only pointless, but is in itself an ad hom to a few who post here who happen to actually work for Microsoft. Go ahead and bitch about the policies of the company all you want, but do so with either a shred of evidence or a modicum of fucking cogence to your claim. It's a graphic interface to the operating system they wrote, not a way to undermine gaming development. If you think for a minute that Microsoft's policy would render inoperable compatibility with OpenGL just because it competes with DirectX—despite the wealth of game developers out there who use it—then you are spreading histrionics based on zero evidence and pure paranoia. That would be bad business for Microsoft, and if Microsoft is anything then it is a business that focuses on the bottom line. The fact that crap-ass 9x programs still operate on Windows XP is evidence that Microsoft doesn't ditch their coding base when launching a new platform.

In other words, don't start a flame war if you aren't going to come armed. You're making shit up out of thin air and you have nothing to substantiate your wild speculation. Let's keep the conversation based on facts and reality, not your wild imagination.
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If you work for Microsoft, which I sense from your tone, that actually explains why their products are the way they are. If you have been reading the whole thread, my first post was as a reply to eeyrjmr's quesiton on why would they castrate opengl performance and limit opengl to 1.4. What I wrote wwas my own thought on why MS would do such a thing. On the other hand if you don't work for MS, don't suck up to them, it's pointless, they won't hire idiots like yourself. Oh... and I couldn't care less that to get a rise out of a loser anyway so stop bitching and thread crapping

edit : Next time don't bother your dad for helping you writing your post as we all know it's full of 15 year old thoughts in mature language.
 
ufster8 said:
If you work for Microsoft, which I sense from your tone, that actually explains why their products are the way they are. If you have been reading the whole thread, my first post was as a reply to eeyrjmr's quesiton on why would they castrate opengl performance and limit opengl to 1.4. What I wrote wwas my own thought on why MS would do such a thing. On the other hand if you don't work for MS, don't suck up to them, it's pointless, they won't hire idiots like yourself. Oh... and I couldn't care less that to get a rise out of a loser anyway so stop bitching and thread crapping

edit : Next time don't bother your dad for helping you writing your post as we all know it's full of 15 year old thoughts in mature language.
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Here is a tip GreNME cannot take a joke and if you dissagree with him he will just insult you.
It's not even worth dealing with his narrow-mindedness
 
HHunt, I'm sorry about my tone but it's the only one I'll use for dealing with digital fascists like GraNMA.
 
You always get further with a civil tone. :)

(I've had reasonably civil discussions with far-right chritian fundies in the old Soapbox, even though I think the world would have been better off with his like deported offplanet. Being taken seriously is worth it.)
 
eeyrjmr said:
Here is a tip GreNME cannot take a joke and if you dissagree with him he will just insult you.
It's not even worth dealing with his narrow-mindedness
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I didn't know that "narrow-minded" equalled "doesn't agree with you." It's ironic, actually.

As for the other guy, he's spouting a whole lot of words without saying anything. After admitting to making wild speculation without any basis in reality, it's pretty obvious this sidebar to the discussion is pointless, and no matter what anyone says his imagination is more real to him than anything else.

And what does this have to do with the price of tea in China? Unless it's based on reality and not speculation on gaming-related criteria, then not a whole lot.

Believe it or not, gamers, OS companies do not base their business decisions around you. That's why they make game consoles.
 
It is kind of ugly, but as long as I can change it to look like Win98, I'll be fine with it.. I just don't care about a fancy desktop.. All I want to do, is be able to quickly navigate to the program(s) I want to run.. I don't spend much time looking at the desktop.. I'm surfing, or gameing, or writeing an e-mail, or (sic) working :D ...

edit; can't we all try to get along here.. The forums have been filled with alot of back and forth bickering that's off topic lately.... PM does work and you can insult each other all day and night without getting threads locked..
 
GreNME said:
Believe it or not, gamers, OS companies do not base their business decisions around you. That's why they make game consoles.
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Oh, right.
And as for "no basis in reality", I doubt the opengl.org - people are making things up. They might be overplaying it, but it does look like the only way to have windowed openGL and the normal eyecandy is to use a slow, limited, translator.
 
ufster8 said:
blah blah blah blah ...
get a life !!! or a boyfriend !!!
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Your credibility in these forums is swirling rapidly down the drain my friend.

As for gaming being a priority in their next client OS, its more "important" then a "priority." Come on, thats just common sense. Think of the millions of desktops deployed in businesses all across the world. Gaming means nothing to them.
 
OldPueblo said:
As for gaming being a priority in their next client OS, its more "important" then a "priority." Come on, thats just common sense. Think of the millions of desktops deployed in businesses all across the world. Gaming means nothing to them.
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Hmm.
As Microsoft set out to build its next-generation operating system, it first set about collecting data. What exactly do people spend all their time doing on their Windows PCs? The numbers are pretty surprising. 35.5% of the time spent on a Windows PC is browsing the net, but the No. 2 activity—by a wide margin—is playing games. 18% of a Windows user's time (and this is all Windows users here, even grandma) is spent playing games. Granted, this includes casual games, not just multi-million dollar AAA blockbusters that cost $50 at the store. The third and fourth highest- activities by minutes of time spent were using the shell and doing email, at just over 9% each.
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HHunt said:
Hmm.
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I read it. Pay attention, do you think they solicited corporations in that market survey? No because they know what those people are doing. They are working. If MS focused on gaming to the detriment of things like security, stability, and networking, then they alienate the corporations where they make the REAL money and jeopardize their reputation for being a serious OS. I didn't think I had to spell it out. Of course gaming is huge in the house. Once again, common sense. But as GrenME said, they don't base their major decisions around gaming. Its secondary.
 
HHunt said:
Oh, right.
And as for "no basis in reality", I doubt the opengl.org - people are making things up. They might be overplaying it, but it does look like the only way to have windowed openGL and the normal eyecandy is to use a slow, limited, translator.
Click to expand...
You'd be surprised at how many people don't differentiate between Solitaire, Minesweeper, online poker, Bejeweled, and Battlefield 1942. For those who can't differentiate, then sure: lots of people are gamers. Hell, in that context, I'm a gamer. However, I bet I haven't played a single game released in the last year or so. But according to that ExtremeTech article, I would count as a gamer. Frankly, I think the "statistics" are biased.

As for the opengl.org crowd, I do think there are a few histrionics on their side. They do have some points, though. OpenGL is far more widely applicable than DirectX by an order of magnitude. However, if Microsoft were to utilize it rather than DirectX in Vista (frankly, I couldn't care less about games, this thread is about Vista), there would soon follow a rash of licensing issues and more of the same shit that Sun gave Microsoft when it came to the Java VMs (though Sun's is better, IMO). It just wouldn't make good business sense and would only best suit one niche in the market: 'hardcore' gamers. I'm not arguing the merits of OpenGL versus DirectX, mostly because they both are not very interesting to me outside of their front-end rendering capabilities (for which both can go way beyond). I'm talking about the practicality of providing the best overall package in an OS for the greatest number of consumers.

What would be cool is if Microsoft made it available for us to build our own front-ends for the UI. But that pipe dream is up there with having a fully-capable CLI-only version of their flagship OSes (read: not the embedded version) or being able to create a full GUI live CD install of Windows (PE is nice, but is limited for what I'd want). But even if those pipe dreams came true, there would still be jackasses out there who are dead-set on having a chip on their shoulder against Microsoft. I have my own gripes against the products it makes, but thanks to working knowledge of other operating systems I mitigate such issues by working around them to solve problems, not bitch about them.
 
Don't take that in the worst light, by the way: gamers have made both hardware and software popularity what it is today, and I'm thankful. The [H] is a perfect example of it. The big companies out there, outside of gaming departments or companies dedicated to only gaming, are still focusing on the larger picture and not the gaming base. That's just the way it is.
 
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