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MaMMa
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Asazman said:
I can't get anything over 200 FSB without failure
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I can't get anything over 200 FSB without failure
MaMMa, I didnt' mean to discourage you or anything.MaMMa said:I can't get anything over 200 FSB without failure
at least you *should* give CPC Off a try to see how far your memory will overclock and find the sweet spot. I didn't say don't try it at all. I was just pointing out the performance hit you could get from doing it. but if your memory lets you far high enough, you could get some increase in performance. Doesn't the 1-21 BIOS have this feature though? I haven't spent much time playing with the 1-21 so I don't remember. if not, try 1-31 and disable CPC(Command Per Clock) in the memory department.
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MaMMa
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meowCat said:
Oh, trust me nothing can discourage me. Only reason why I'm sad is because I already tried everything. Turned off CPC and all. Still not even 201 FSB will run !! Oh well its still nice from 1.8 to 2.4 ( 12 X 200 ) and honeslty I don't think I could tell the difference in gaming if it gotten any faster. One last thing I am going to try is the 1-31 BIOS. Hopefully that will do some good.
There is no point in running 20-30mhz higher FSB and turning CPC off. CPC on is 1T; CPC off is 2T. The performance hit incurred by disabling CPC makes it pointless to achieve higher FSB without it.
The main conondrum here is that to get high FSB, 225-250 range, you need single-sided, and therefore 256MB sticks. And then you need very specific 256MB sticks, namely BH5, paired with a DFI motherboard.
The problem here is that games using the best graphics engines are obviously demanding 1GB+ RAM now, so 256MB sticks are no good here. No point in OCing if your favorite new game is going to run poorly.
Basically the whole situation sucks.
The main conondrum here is that to get high FSB, 225-250 range, you need single-sided, and therefore 256MB sticks. And then you need very specific 256MB sticks, namely BH5, paired with a DFI motherboard.
The problem here is that games using the best graphics engines are obviously demanding 1GB+ RAM now, so 256MB sticks are no good here. No point in OCing if your favorite new game is going to run poorly.
Basically the whole situation sucks.
and that's what i've been trying to say about the importance of CPC On. I'm against the CPC Off, in case anybody is confused about me about it. (hehe)
yes.... that's the problem, too. Since he does a lot of gaming and the kind of gaming he does require a lot of RAM(at least 1GB). Since he already has 1GB of Mushkin ram and Im sure he doesn't want to ditch it, his best option is to overclock the crap out of his video card. Very important in gaming. Apply some full copper SLK/SP series HSF on it if you want to go air route. Apply water + tec cooling for your vid card if you're willing to go water route.
the highest i've gone with my r9800pro was 553 core / 410 memory. r350core and supercooling is a great combination.. ahemmm.....
yes.... that's the problem, too. Since he does a lot of gaming and the kind of gaming he does require a lot of RAM(at least 1GB). Since he already has 1GB of Mushkin ram and Im sure he doesn't want to ditch it, his best option is to overclock the crap out of his video card. Very important in gaming. Apply some full copper SLK/SP series HSF on it if you want to go air route. Apply water + tec cooling for your vid card if you're willing to go water route.
the highest i've gone with my r9800pro was 553 core / 410 memory. r350core and supercooling is a great combination..
ahemmm.....
M
MaMMa
Guest
Matrices said:
Very well said. It is totally pointless on buying BH5 single sided 256 MB of ram when games these days require atleast 1 gig of ram.
My question now is IF you get water cooling, if you ran the hoses strait up to your GPU and not ur CPU would it be cooler just to cool ur video card only then both the CPU and the GPU? Since it is only cooling the GPU then the water temps should be lower right?
Other then that, what has the best cooling temps for air cooling on the 9800 XT? Once agian thanks for all the input and I hope my question help out others besides me.
Another thing, I would like my pc to run very quiet so I can leave it on 24/7. Right now I am using this on my northbridge and its pretty day loud:
http://www.systemcooling.com/thermalright_nb1-01.html
Is there any other substitutions on this?
Sorry but there is another issue I am having. I have te 9800 XT. The stock fan and heatsink on this is almost directly blowing all of its heat striat up on to my Zalman blue heatsink on my south bridge and I know its adding heat to it. Would this screw with my OC?
yesMaMMa said:
yes, that's why i was saying just watercool your vid card, that is if, you want to go that way. it's a little more economical and easiler to deal with one little GPU cooling than having both GPU and CPU cooling.
well, there are many ways.. Arctic cooling VGA Silencer seems to be recommended by many oc'ers. It fits on easily, without troubles or modifications. A little bit of Vmodding maybe necessary to get the clocks up more. If you want to get heavy, some SLK800/SP97 HSF would be the way to go. The disadvantage is that, obviously, will take modifications to get the dang thing to fit. I'm not that familiar with the air cooling toys as I'm into waterchilling/phase-change cooling my vid cards and CPUs.. i don't even do normal watercooling.. so I can't recommend what are the best components for normal watercooling such as heatercores and few other odds and ends stuff.
If you want to go watercooling for your GPU, normal watercooling is not going to get you much higher than a good air cooling. You will need to Vmod the card "a little bit" to give it some boost in overclocks.
More advanced way would be Swiftech MCW50-T 80w or higher. Or, waterchilling(5C~ Subzero temps) the block would be another way(using waterchiller/deep freezer etc). With these cooling, you don't have to Vmod.. the core overclock will be increased significantly.. by 30~ 40+mhz core..without Vmod. but it gets more complex.. and more money would be involved. You'd also have to think about the condensation proofing.
So it's really depends on how you want to do. I don't know how much you know/ experience about watercooling so this is where I stop.... if you need more assistence, i'll try to help.. or someone else will jump in...
you will need some high CFM/RPM rated fan to blow out the air at aggressive rate. Faster moving air is better. Have some good case fan to suck out the hot air out of your case. The more you suck out the hot air, the cooler inside your case will be. Apply a little fan on the SouthBridge sink if it bothers you.
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http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-180-039&depa=0
See this mobo...ALL multipliers are unlocked without a wire trick...and how do I know...look at my sig
13X200 baby WOOT
DASHlT
See this mobo...ALL multipliers are unlocked without a wire trick...and how do I know...look at my sig
13X200 baby WOOT
DASHlT
From my understanding overclocking the ATI 9800x cards doesn't result in much performance boost. Is this a correct perception? I'm getting a 9800 pro myself.
I wouldn't use a watercooling GPU unit at the expense of CPU cooling. It's just not practical. To cool down an overclocked GPU, all you need to do is attach a good heatsink/ramsink system, and throw on a decent fan which you can attach to a rheobus. You'll only need to use the fan when you are gaming. None of this is true with the CPU, which can't be overclocked and then just cooled mostly passively unless you place it under stress.
Using air cooling for the video card will also be a lot less noisy than vice versa, and the performance boost you will see in games from a good overclock with air to an extreme overclock with water will be negligible.
What exactly are the limits of double-sided RAM when overclocking? It seems that the only RAM overclocking well is BH5, and no one is making BH5 anymore, so you are basically at the mercy of a consumer-unfriendly market here, either buying some BH5 from someone in the forums, which will be expensive, or buying the newest Corsair 3200, which is even more expensive, and doesn't do 250mhz-range with BH5-type timings.
Essentially the current situation is not at all conducive for increasing the memory/bus bandwith with reasonable amounts of RAM.
I wouldn't use a watercooling GPU unit at the expense of CPU cooling. It's just not practical. To cool down an overclocked GPU, all you need to do is attach a good heatsink/ramsink system, and throw on a decent fan which you can attach to a rheobus. You'll only need to use the fan when you are gaming. None of this is true with the CPU, which can't be overclocked and then just cooled mostly passively unless you place it under stress.
Using air cooling for the video card will also be a lot less noisy than vice versa, and the performance boost you will see in games from a good overclock with air to an extreme overclock with water will be negligible.
What exactly are the limits of double-sided RAM when overclocking? It seems that the only RAM overclocking well is BH5, and no one is making BH5 anymore, so you are basically at the mercy of a consumer-unfriendly market here, either buying some BH5 from someone in the forums, which will be expensive, or buying the newest Corsair 3200, which is even more expensive, and doesn't do 250mhz-range with BH5-type timings.
Essentially the current situation is not at all conducive for increasing the memory/bus bandwith with reasonable amounts of RAM.
Nice job discouraging him, pal..
now you tell him his 9800XT won't do much by oc'ing, and you give him no other solution to get his system be better. You're making him get stuck and just constantly making him worry about the problem he's having. Saying things like "oh you can't do that.. it's not worth it, Oh you can't do that either. no you can't do that also.." Good going.
yes, your perception is, wrong. Video card overclocks are critical, will result in significant boost in graphics performance. And why do I even have to yell about this anyway eh? This is rediculous. Why do I have to even explain about it? this is a given. Something most of you should know back years ago. What happened here?
It also depends on what you overclock. You want to overclock both GPU and Memory. Many 9800pro/xt cards naturally overclock 40~ 60mhz on its own, with stock cooling. You then apply a nice HSF unit, will usually only result in another 10 or so mhz core. The main key of this kind of cooling is to increase the cooling a little bit and help keep from overheating in the long use. It is not meant to "chill" the card. Vmodding on top of that, will get you another 10+/-mhz which a nice HSF unit can handle(you said it also). and just normal watercooling isn't going to gain much from a well equipped Air cooled HSF on the card. I said this before. Why are you saying the same thing over and over. Do you not read someone else's post? It seems like you're ignoring what I say and you go on with it. It seems like you're trying to go against it. What are you doing? eh?..
And how can you say r9800pro would have better performance result than 9800XT by cooling it? that's what sounds like, to me. That also discourages him too. Try to be positive, mmkay?...... Maybe you got lucky with your 9800pro. Did you know there are super dud 9800pro's flowing around? good example, a r360core'ed 9800pro, tough.... Good luck on overclocking it. let's see how much you'll gain from extra air cooling.
I gave him options.
I started off with a nice air cooled HSF unit i.e. VGA Silencer series.
I then gave an option to watercool it, if he's interested in it. Getting into watercooling is good thing. It gains him experience about watercooling. Why are you keeping him from doing such projects? Trying to make him stupid? or newb? That's not positive, either,
I then finally mentioned the extreme level of cooling. Just to explain what kind of overclocks can be attained by doing it. In this level, he doesn't even have to Vmod.
Some people have "passion" to extreme cool their CPUs, only Cards(in this case). Some people do a special project in supercooling the NorthBridge and just air cool the rest. Are we in [H.]ardforum or what? Isnt' this extreme place to talk about this stuff?
It is nothing wrong with supercooling the card. You want to get great performance boost out of it, you gonna have to do it, plain and simple. What makes you think a little dinky aircooling unit(something better than stock cooler) will be close to a waterchilled block on the card? yes.. you compared it with just normal watercooling... but I already said it in my previous post.. read read read.......... pay some respect to someone's post, okiedokie? maybe you'll learn something. Great speech.
now you tell him his 9800XT won't do much by oc'ing, and you give him no other solution to get his system be better. You're making him get stuck and just constantly making him worry about the problem he's having. Saying things like "oh you can't do that.. it's not worth it, Oh you can't do that either. no you can't do that also.." Good going.
yes, your perception is, wrong.
Video card overclocks are critical, will result in significant boost in graphics performance. And why do I even have to yell about this anyway eh? This is rediculous. Why do I have to even explain about it? this is a given. Something most of you should know back years ago. What happened here?It also depends on what you overclock. You want to overclock both GPU and Memory. Many 9800pro/xt cards naturally overclock 40~ 60mhz on its own, with stock cooling. You then apply a nice HSF unit, will usually only result in another 10 or so mhz core. The main key of this kind of cooling is to increase the cooling a little bit and help keep from overheating in the long use. It is not meant to "chill" the card. Vmodding on top of that, will get you another 10+/-mhz which a nice HSF unit can handle(you said it also). and just normal watercooling isn't going to gain much from a well equipped Air cooled HSF on the card. I said this before. Why are you saying the same thing over and over. Do you not read someone else's post? It seems like you're ignoring what I say and you go on with it. It seems like you're trying to go against it. What are you doing? eh?..
And how can you say r9800pro would have better performance result than 9800XT by cooling it? that's what sounds like, to me. That also discourages him too. Try to be positive, mmkay?...... Maybe you got lucky with your 9800pro. Did you know there are super dud 9800pro's flowing around? good example, a r360core'ed 9800pro, tough.... Good luck on overclocking it. let's see how much you'll gain from extra air cooling.
I gave him options.
I started off with a nice air cooled HSF unit i.e. VGA Silencer series.
I then gave an option to watercool it, if he's interested in it. Getting into watercooling is good thing. It gains him experience about watercooling. Why are you keeping him from doing such projects? Trying to make him stupid? or newb? That's not positive, either,
I then finally mentioned the extreme level of cooling. Just to explain what kind of overclocks can be attained by doing it. In this level, he doesn't even have to Vmod.
Some people have "passion" to extreme cool their CPUs, only Cards(in this case). Some people do a special project in supercooling the NorthBridge and just air cool the rest. Are we in [H.]ardforum or what? Isnt' this extreme place to talk about this stuff?
It is nothing wrong with supercooling the card. You want to get great performance boost out of it, you gonna have to do it, plain and simple. What makes you think a little dinky aircooling unit(something better than stock cooler) will be close to a waterchilled block on the card? yes.. you compared it with just normal watercooling... but I already said it in my previous post.. read read read.......... pay some respect to someone's post, okiedokie? maybe you'll learn something. Great speech.
What is this, group therapy? Let's get serious. This is not about "negatives" or "positives" but a certain thing called _concrete reality_.
Reiterating the same claim a dozen times without any factual content proves nothing. Talking about how throwing $20 here and another $20 there for a miserable few mhz increase proves nothing. The fact remains: OCing obtained by air cooling the GPU is not going to be increased by watercooling to the extent that the performance difference (virtually none) is justified by the price ($50 GPU block, or not watercooling the CPU, thus lower CPU speeds, memory speeds, and bsu speeds for air-cooling)
Moreover your insinuations are ridiculous - and just that - insinuations. No one is being "discouraged." I said quite clearly its better to watercool the CPU than the GPU if choosing between the two. Anyone can talk on and on about how many products there are to buy and what theoretical options are available - the crucial question is, does the performance increase justify the time and money? If you have all the time and money in the world, then it's a moot question, but for most reasonable people, it isn't.
Reiterating the same claim a dozen times without any factual content proves nothing. Talking about how throwing $20 here and another $20 there for a miserable few mhz increase proves nothing. The fact remains: OCing obtained by air cooling the GPU is not going to be increased by watercooling to the extent that the performance difference (virtually none) is justified by the price ($50 GPU block, or not watercooling the CPU, thus lower CPU speeds, memory speeds, and bsu speeds for air-cooling)
Moreover your insinuations are ridiculous - and just that - insinuations. No one is being "discouraged." I said quite clearly its better to watercool the CPU than the GPU if choosing between the two. Anyone can talk on and on about how many products there are to buy and what theoretical options are available - the crucial question is, does the performance increase justify the time and money? If you have all the time and money in the world, then it's a moot question, but for most reasonable people, it isn't.
i didn't know the normal gpu block costs $50. obviously someone goes to some expenive rip off shops.Matrices said:
Someone would be stupid enough to spend that much on a regular GPU block. And read again... and again, that I'm the first one who said "normal watercooling" will not get much gain than the well-equipped HSF unit for the GPU. You're saying the same thing again. This is what... 4th time, or 3rd? I thought 2nd time is too much.now that is even more rediculous words I hear from you. It just gets worse, sadly.
it's better to cool watercool the CPU than GPU?? Tell me how much of FPS or 3dmark gain from increasing a raw CPU clocks(pay damn attention) to 100mhz more. Run the benches and come back here. Now go back, leave the damn CPU clock where it was before and improve the GPU cooling and mods. Run the 3D benches and what result you'll get. Come back here with the result. Then we'll talk. I see some really rediculous words coming from you and I am disappointed. The more you are at it, the worse it sounds.
just CPU cooling alone is the one that isn't enough to justify it. Forgotten all about what he does? gaming? meaning high-end graphics, high res? unless he's playing NeedForSpeed III@ 800x600 but i don't..... think he plays that at that res with his vid card. LOL see the drift?
also, remember?? FSB?? he can't up it any more?? that's why I said it in my previous post? mm? just the CPU raw clock of 100mhz(that's even if he can do it with "just" watercooling).
also, remember?? FSB?? he can't up it any more?? that's why I said it in my previous post? mm? just the CPU raw clock of 100mhz(that's even if he can do it with "just" watercooling).
hell, even 200mhz raw clock increase(and at this point, he'll need extreme cooling) is not enough compare to oc'ing the vid card for his gaming. What's the priority here? forgotten about it? At least you need to know the "priority". You sound like oc'ing the CPU clock will boost twice the score LOL. that's what it sounds to me.
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MaMMa
Guest
A man escapes from prison where he has been for 15 years. He breaks into a house to look for money and finds a young couple in bed. He orders the guy out of bed and ties him to achair. While tying the girl to the bed he gets on top of her, kisses her neck, then gets up and goes into the bathroom. While he's in there the husband tells his wife:
"Listen, this guy's an escaped convict, look at his clothes! He probably spent a lot of time in jail and hasn't seen a woman in years. I saw how he kissed your neck. If he wants sex, don't resist, don't complain, do whatever he tells you. Satisfy him no matter how much he nauseates you. This guy is probably very dangerous. If he gets angry he'll kill us. Be strong honey, I love you." To which the wife responds: "He wasn't kissing my neck, he was whispering in my ear. He told me he was gay, thought you were cute, and asked if we
had any vaseline. I told him it was in the bathroom. Be strong, honey. I love you too."
OKKKKKKKKKKK. So I updated my BIOS to 1/31 sucessfully. Thank God. It wouldn't post after 5 tries it did. Whew. Gonna tweak now. Hopefully I can get higher FSB which I kinda doubt will happen. Cya
"Listen, this guy's an escaped convict, look at his clothes! He probably spent a lot of time in jail and hasn't seen a woman in years. I saw how he kissed your neck. If he wants sex, don't resist, don't complain, do whatever he tells you. Satisfy him no matter how much he nauseates you. This guy is probably very dangerous. If he gets angry he'll kill us. Be strong honey, I love you." To which the wife responds: "He wasn't kissing my neck, he was whispering in my ear. He told me he was gay, thought you were cute, and asked if we
had any vaseline. I told him it was in the bathroom. Be strong, honey. I love you too."
OKKKKKKKKKKK. So I updated my BIOS to 1/31 sucessfully. Thank God. It wouldn't post after 5 tries it did. Whew. Gonna tweak now. Hopefully I can get higher FSB which I kinda doubt will happen. Cya
Well, don't you hate it when your right? Nothing over 205 FSB will run stable. I've concluded that 2.4 ghz is the highest my barton will go. Then while I was in BIOS I remembered a previous post :
And I thought, WTF, I haven't even tried to go past the multiplier of 12 yet! DUH! Up that and you got higher speeds. So I uped it to 12.5 and it BOOTS! 2.5 ghz now! While its booting it says "Backup BIOS OK!" Then it takes me to:
Nvidia Boot Agent : yada yada yada ...
It hangs here for about 10 seconds then says Boot Device Failure, Insert System Boot disk and hit enter...
I don't have a floppy drive so it searches for a CD ROM bootdisk, I throw it in there and it goes to the win2k setup all the way till the end when it says Setup is starting windows 2000 then BSOD!
I've reseted my BIOS. Checked my IDE cables from the board to the Hard drive just incase. (The motherboard is sitting on my desk) Even at default settings I'm getting the same thing. What could be wrong!!!??? HELP ME PLEASE.
EDIT: This is MaMMa, I'm on my brothers computer and forgot to log off his handle.
DASHlT said:See this mobo...ALL multipliers are unlocked without a wire trick...and how do I know...look at my sig
13X200 baby WOOT
DASHlT
And I thought, WTF, I haven't even tried to go past the multiplier of 12 yet! DUH! Up that and you got higher speeds. So I uped it to 12.5 and it BOOTS! 2.5 ghz now! While its booting it says "Backup BIOS OK!" Then it takes me to:
Nvidia Boot Agent : yada yada yada ...
It hangs here for about 10 seconds then says Boot Device Failure, Insert System Boot disk and hit enter...
I don't have a floppy drive so it searches for a CD ROM bootdisk, I throw it in there and it goes to the win2k setup all the way till the end when it says Setup is starting windows 2000 then BSOD!
I've reseted my BIOS. Checked my IDE cables from the board to the Hard drive just incase. (The motherboard is sitting on my desk) Even at default settings I'm getting the same thing. What could be wrong!!!??? HELP ME PLEASE.
EDIT: This is MaMMa, I'm on my brothers computer and forgot to log off his handle.
M
MaMMa
Guest
This is the Exact message I get upon boot:
NVIDIA Boot Agent, PEX-2.0 (Build 082 v1.82)
Copyright .... . . . .yada yada
PXE-E61: Media test failure, Check Cables
PXE-MOF: Exiting Boot Agent
Boot Device Failure, Insert System Boot disk and hit enter...
NVIDIA Boot Agent, PEX-2.0 (Build 082 v1.82)
Copyright .... . . . .yada yada
PXE-E61: Media test failure, Check Cables
PXE-MOF: Exiting Boot Agent
Boot Device Failure, Insert System Boot disk and hit enter...
M
MaMMa
Guest
I have came to a conclusion about DFI motherboards and assuming that 90% of DFI owners will agree with me.
DFI Motherboards/BIOS are like Moms, you can fuckin hate the shit outta them yet you love it so much!
I don't know what the hell went wrong. Anyhow, I just went back into CMOS reloaded and reloaded one of my default and it works. I don't fuckin get it.
DFI Motherboards/BIOS are like Moms, you can fuckin hate the shit outta them yet you love it so much!
I don't know what the hell went wrong. Anyhow, I just went back into CMOS reloaded and reloaded one of my default and it works. I don't fuckin get it.