Is higher FSB better?

M

MaMMa

Guest
I have a DFI Lan Party NF2 Ultra B and XP-M 2500+ and 2 X 512Corsair XMS 3200 CL2

I have the 1/21 BIOS Beta
I can easilly OC it to 2.4 ( 12X200 @ 1.7v - 1.825v ) but when I try to do it 10 X 210 or any higher at the FSB I'll cold boot. Is this because my ram? My timings are :

(Advanced chipset features)
Expert
Aggressive
Expert
11
2
2
2
2.0
9
12

The voltage is at 2.9 - 3.1

How come I can get up to 2.4 ghz at 12 x 200 and not 10 x 240?

Another thing when I use 12 x anything higher then 203 FSB, windows will post and everything works fine but after about 1-3 minutes my mouse freezes but the keyboard will work. When I try to restart from the keyboard it says its shutting down and gets ready to and just hangs. Help!

Thanks for any input
 
to get anything but a few mhz over 200 on the mobiles, you have to mess with the L12 bridge.
 
got a thread or link on how to do the L12 mod? i saw an old one but it wasn't clear
 
you don't need L12 mod for the DFI NF2 Infinity/Lanparty boards, regardless of CPU types. yep.. I'm talking about mobile bartons too hons. ;)

and to the original poster, that's normal... it wouldn't be normal if your board doesn't boot. it's suppose to not boot.. now , that's normal. he..he....

use the black reset switch button. Use it well. It will be very handy. Works virtually almost at all times. also try BIOS version 1-31. Nope.. it's not your RAM holding you back. It's the BIOS issue with the board. The board itself has no problems handling high FSBs. Once you find the way around the problem, you'll be fine.
 
it would seem that your RAM does not like fsb > 200 at those timings/voltages.

you can:

loosen timings and try again.
up voltage and try again.
some people say moving the ram to a different slot helps sometimes (don't know about the validity of that one).
some combination of the above.
keep it at 200.

That being said, for a given clock speed, the one with a higher fsb will be higher performance (in general, I'm sure there are exceptions)
 
oh wait... nevermind what I said about the memory part. I just noticed you got 2 x 512mb sticks of Corsair. Such large volume of memory capacity is more difficult to overclock.. Double-sided sticks often limits the FSB oc'ing, even for the DFI boards. Disabling the CPC in BIOS will help increase the FSB back up, but the performance hit is huge. You should've gotten the single-sided 2x256 sticks.
 
meowCat said:
oh wait... nevermind what I said about the memory part. I just noticed you got 2 x 512mb sticks of Corsair. Such large volume of memory capacity is more difficult to overclock.. Double-sided sticks often limits the FSB oc'ing, even for the DFI boards. Disabling the CPC in BIOS will help increase the FSB back up, but the performance hit is huge. You should've gotten the single-sided 2x256 sticks.
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I have 2x512 corsair pc3200 and it does 430 no problem...
 
im telling ya... L12 mod isn't going to do jack sh#t... the DFI boards do not need it. The problem will more likely be your memory sticks. Yours is double-sided, ain't it?
 
Ch1m3r4 said:
I have 2x512 corsair pc3200 and it does 430 no problem...
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430.. that's 215FSB. That's about right. You can't do 240~ 250+FSBs intensive settings. That shows the 2x512 sticks are difficult to oc. Is yours double-sided?
 
The heat spreaders are on pretty damn close, I tried looking yesterday to see if they are double sided ( BH5 right? ) and I really can't tell, then agian I didn't really try looking later on tonight.

In other words, if I do have it double sided then my FSB won't be as high? Is there such thing as single sided 512s?

Oh yea, I read that the L12 mod isn't needed for DFI NFIIs. Thanks for the notice also.
 
meowCat said:
430.. that's 215FSB. That's about right. You can't do 240~ 250+FSBs intensive settings. That shows the 2x512 sticks are difficult to oc. Is yours double-sided?
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tis. but I haven't TRIED any higher than that, so I couldn't tell you if I could or not.

I got a poor overclocking 2500+ barton (non-mobile) from back before they locked the multipliers. And I have not yet got my watercooling together, so it's sitting at 215x10 (I think...) at 1.875vcore and 50C load cpu temp. (on abit nf-7s).

If you'd like I can drop the multi way down and see just how high it can go when I get home from work. Want me to keep the timings as tight as possible? :)

it'll give me something to do.

edit: and I agree that they shouldn't need the L12 mod.
 
MaMMa said:
The heat spreaders are on pretty damn close, I tried looking yesterday to see if they are double sided ( BH5 right? ) and I really can't tell, then agian I didn't really try looking later on tonight.
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you might be able to look at it from the pin side to see where the chips are located. If the chips are on both side in each spot, it's double-sided.

In other words, if I do have it double sided then my FSB won't be as high? Is there such thing as single sided 512s?
Click to expand...

that is correct. You might endup being stuck at 200FSB stable.. maybe few more FSB out of it i.e. 210'ish? some people have trouble even at 200FSB but all depends on the ram.

Oh yea, I read that the L12 mod isn't needed for DFI NFIIs. Thanks for the notice also.
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no prob.. :)
 
Ch1m3r4 said:
tis. but I haven't TRIED any higher than that, so I couldn't tell you if I could or not.

I got a poor overclocking 2500+ barton (non-mobile) from back before they locked the multipliers. And I have not yet got my watercooling together, so it's sitting at 215x10 (I think...) at 1.875vcore and 50C load cpu temp. (on abit nf-7s).

If you'd like I can drop the multi way down and see just how high it can go when I get home from work. Want me to keep the timings as tight as possible? :)

it'll give me something to do.

edit: and I agree that they shouldn't need the L12 mod.
Click to expand...
yea.. those older bartons oc'ability varies a lot too. Some oc greattttt.... some can't even get to 2.5ghz stable even with the phase-change cooling. I ran into one.. it was a super-dud barton 2600+.

yea.. hopefully you got a nice Abit board to co-op with the high FSBs..

Good luck... much higher than the FSB you provided is gonna be toughy.... but good luck.
 
Man this is horrible news. I should just go die now. So the only way to get high FSB like others is to have 2 X 256 single sided RAM?

I had a 512 only and Far Cry ran really skippy my Photoshop isn't that quick. Now I have 1 gig of RAM everything runs a lot better but now I can't OC. How lame! :mad: Theres no way I'll go back to 512 mb .

I'm going to try the 1/31 BIOS as soon as I get home. I hope that helps my FSB. I can hardly get it to 205 as of now.

I'm still not clear on one of my original questions though... If the FSB say 250 X 100 making it 2.5 ghz vs. a 210 X 12 making it 2.52, Which would run faster? Is the FSB the key to speed or the actual ghz? Should I be worrying about this or should I just go out and get some sun? :rolleyes:
 
MaMMa said:
Man this is horrible news. I should just go die now. So the only way to get high FSB like others is to have 2 X 256 single sided RAM?

I had a 512 only and Far Cry ran really skippy my Photoshop isn't that quick. Now I have 1 gig of RAM everything runs a lot better but now I can't OC. How lame! :mad: Theres no way I'll go back to 512 mb .
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lol, don't get feel too bad..

yes.. single sided 2x256 sticks is the best bet for high FSB clocks.

with a nice DFI LP board(example) maybe single sided 3x256@ 768mb 128bit DC *might be* another option. It will allow you better FSB oc than the double-sided 2x512mb. FSB oc'ing maybe lessened a little but should still be able to do 230~ 240FSBs at tight timings. Don't take my words for it though. I've seen some people have good success by doing it and some not as good. I can't guarantee anything.
 
Um, I hit 240 fsb without the wire mod, it honestly did nothing for me. You need to update to another BIOS, 1/21 is infamous for its cold boots.
 
Put the RAM in slots 1&3. The 5/5 and 4/29 BIOS both cure the cold boots, but also can cause major problems if you are without a BIOS savior, you can kill the mobo. I run 5/5 without a BIOS savior but I am extremely lucky that I have had no problems with it, a lot of people have the 4 LED's of death on this BIOS, but I have not, and my BIOS savior shall be here really soon.
 
"I'm still not clear on one of my original questions though... If the FSB say 250 X 100 making it 2.5 ghz vs. a 210 X 12 making it 2.52, Which would run faster? Is the FSB the key to speed or the actual ghz?"

Still not answered! Man Is it even worth trying to do the BIOS then??? Did you see a big performance increase? I don't want to spend another 30$ on BIOS savior to get a little higher FSB. I guess I will have to settle for it at 12 X 200. Maybe my next pc I'll try 3 X 256 single siders.
 
Higher FSB = faster clock. For instance, 200x12.5 will run a bit slower than a system clocked at 250x10, If you checked this with a 3dmark score, you'd see about at LEAST a 200 - 300 point difference.
 
MaMMa said:
"I'm still not clear on one of my original questions though... If the FSB say 250 X 100 making it 2.5 ghz vs. a 210 X 12 making it 2.52, Which would run faster? Is the FSB the key to speed or the actual ghz?"
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FSB of course. ;) You will experience a significant boost from 210FSB to 250, as long as the system is stable. You will still get some very nice performance even at 225FSB fastest setting. Don't ignore the overal clockspeed though. It still plays good portion of it. Having higher stable FSBs are suggested for performance.

Still not answered! Man Is it even worth trying to do the BIOS then??? Did you see a big performance increase? I don't want to spend another 30$ on BIOS savior to get a little higher FSB. I guess I will have to settle for it at 12 X 200. Maybe my next pc I'll try 3 X 256 single siders.
Click to expand...

that depends.. if you want fancy high FSB number but don't mind poor performance, sure, update the BIOS and disable the CPC. It will provide poor performance. Will be considerably slower than Abit NF7/s clock for clock. Are you going for the raw performance or OC numbers? I would figure you would want "raw performance", right?

Disabling the CPC will have large impact on performance, meaning lower performance. You are looking at loss of approx. 500~ 570 pts. alone. I had my own review about that in other site. If your current ram could handle at least 220FSB with fast setting(CPU aggressive, CPC On, APIC On, DC On, cas2-2-2-2.-13-15) then you're in good shape.
 
meowCat said:
[/b]
Disabling the CPC will have large impact on performance, meaning lower performance. You are looking at loss of approx. 500~ 570 pts. alone. I had my own review about that in other site. If your current ram could handle at least 220FSB with fast setting(CPU aggressive, CPC On, APIC On, DC On, cas2-2-2-2.-13-15) then you're in good shape.
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It depends on how much you are gaining out of it.

If you disable CPC but gain 40fsb then you might get better performance.

I have better benchmarks with 240fsb CPC off then i do at 220fsb CPC on.

and don't make me get out the ss's :p
 
Nice rig T-type :p

What kinda scores do you get in 3dmark01se? just wondering since your rig is about the same as mine.
 
AMD T-type said:
It depends on how much you are gaining out of it.

If you disable CPC but gain 40fsb then you might get better performance.

I have better benchmarks with 240fsb CPC off then i do at 220fsb CPC on.

and don't make me get out the ss's :p
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not quite.....

seems like there's some poor benchmarking setup going on there... 40FSBs is "logical" number to start gaining performance, but how if he's already at 220FSB, 260FSB CPC disabled may not be very practical... plus, if that's even if his ram allows it.

your bench of 240 CPC off vs. 220 CPC on doesnt' seem right. It takes a lot more than that.. also depends on what kind of bench you ran... ;)
 
I have his same ram, and I'm going through the EXACT same thing he is, so it is logical.

And its 30 FSB when CPC off makes a difference.
 
two identical processors..at the same speed, but one has a higher FSB...the one with higher FSB will crunch more data because it can recieve more data in a given amount of time.

Also, UPDATE YOUR BIOS :)
I just updated mine from the original bios. I went from a 185 FSB to a 210 with only a single bump in the VDIMM voltage. I had to quit because I had to go to class. I'm running the KHX3000 at CAS 2-2-2-11 at 210 right now... 2 x 512.....UPDATE YOUR BIOS!! :D
 
anchor said:
I have his same ram, and I'm going through the EXACT same thing he is, so it is logical.

And its 30 FSB when CPC off makes a difference.
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Isn't that what I said? logical?
 
anchor, your 3dmark score of 18688 @ 2.53gz@ 240FSB is that with the CPC off? it seems your score is awefully low. At what clocks did you run your R9800pro at?
 
Default clock, but I use the Omega drivers which are more based on 3D quality and not score. If I use default ATI drivers, I can get up to about 19500.
 
hmm... do you have 3dmark compare link for that?

I see some huge 3dmark score difference(you don't want to know, it's scary, hehe) by looking at mine and yours at same clocks and timing at default r9800pro clock. The actual vid clock of 378/337.
 
Whats your score, and what drivers do you use? And no, I never really take pictures of my stuff, I'll take some whenever im not feeling lazy.
 
Fark_Maniac said:
two identical processors..at the same speed, but one has a higher FSB...the one with higher FSB will crunch more data because it can recieve more data in a given amount of time.

Also, UPDATE YOUR BIOS :)
I just updated mine from the original bios. I went from a 185 FSB to a 210 with only a single bump in the VDIMM voltage. I had to quit because I had to go to class. I'm running the KHX3000 at CAS 2-2-2-11 at 210 right now... 2 x 512.....UPDATE YOUR BIOS!! :D
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What BIOS are you using dood! I dont want to get BIOS Savior so whats a nice one with a high probability of functioning correctly. (if there is any)

I want raw speed and performance, don't really care for scores.
 
MaMMa said:
What BIOS are you using dood! I dont want to get BIOS Savior so whats a nice one with a high probability of functioning correctly. (if there is any)
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I would say 1-31 or newer.

I want raw speed and performance, don't really care for scores.
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no you mean.. "don't really care for high FSBs", not scores. raw performance will get you the scores. I figured that's what you meant anyway.. no biggie. Glad you pointed out "raw performance". :) that's my guy. ;)
 
This is all of great interest to me since I am ordering the following parts from another comp trading forum, Anandtech.com:

DFI Infinity that does 250mhz FSB
2X256MB Hyper X PC3000 BH5 that does 250 FSB @ 11-2-2 CAS 2 @3.3 V
9800 Pro
(and WCing)

So my question is: which BIOS should be installed on the DFI? Official or modded? And where exactly can it be obtained? DFI-Sreet.com has only 2 BIOSes and both are for the Lan Party. I should emphasize I am looking for a _stable_ BIOS. Don't want to throw 30 more dollars out to get a BIOS Savor because someone can't make a decent BIOS...

I have a stick of 512mb HyperX PC3000 in my system already. I know it won't OC nearly as well as the stuff I'm getting, but if Far Cry sucks on 512MB, then that's a tough choice...

Thanks for the help.
 
Matrices said:
This is all of great interest to me since I am ordering the following parts from another comp trading forum, Anandtech.com:

DFI Infinity that does 250mhz FSB
2X256MB Hyper X PC3000 BH5 that does 250 FSB @ 11-2-2 CAS 2 @3.3 V
9800 Pro
(and WCing)

So my question is: which BIOS should be installed on the DFI? Official or modded? And where exactly can it be obtained? DFI-Sreet.com has only 2 BIOSes and both are for the Lan Party. I should emphasize I am looking for a _stable_ BIOS. Don't want to throw 30 more dollars out to get a BIOS Savor because someone can't make a decent BIOS...

I have a stick of 512mb HyperX PC3000 in my system already. I know it won't OC nearly as well as the stuff I'm getting, but if Far Cry sucks on 512MB, then that's a tough choice...

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

From experience, I had 512 Corsair XMS PC3200 CL2 Ram and a Radeon 9800 XT and Far Cry ran glitchy. I recommend 1 Gig of Ram atleast. After I got the other stick of 512 it ran smooth.
 
ya...1/31 bios.

as an update. I've got 215mhz FSB to work giving it 2.9v. I'm testing out 220 now and it looks promising.

Edit: I've got 225mhz at 3v stable. going for 230 @ 3v
 
kronchev said:
to get anything but a few mhz over 200 on the mobiles, you have to mess with the L12 bridge.
Click to expand...

I have a DFI LanParty NFII Ultra B and a Mobile 2500+ and I'm at 225FSB.
 
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