Is AMD Really a Sinking Ship?

I dont know about you guys but for the cost/performance you cant beat AMD. I do not play games like a mad man and I surf/download 90% of the time, AMD is perfect for me and plenty of other users. Seriously how much is a quad core, $280 and thats just for the cheap one, the more expensive one is like $500! The highest x2 is $210 and thats a great performer, sure its no quad core but sometimes leaving overkill to the people that look at benchmarks all day is just a better thing to do.
 
i think its funny how alot of posters here talk like they know internally whats going on with AMD and their Technology.LOL
Like as if they work there or something?..LOL

Lets not forget that this Technology takes Years to develop and test, it's not like they thought it up yesterday, and then pooped it out today.....

Bottom line, AMD will return and spank Intel, then Intel will return and spank AMD.yadda yadda yadda.same ol story, i buy whatever i can afford, on a poor mans budget.
the competition between these 2 comps has allowed me to do that.
AMD owned Intel with the K6 family and the Thunderbird Athlons, and the FX Line pulled out a can of whoop ass......so stop complaining Fanboys, Unless you work for AMD and know exactly whats going on, it's all trash talk to me.......LOL
 
Does no one see the potential? AMD now controls ATI. ATI will get better programmers and will be able to make more stable boards. An ATI board made for an AMD chip should end up having more overclocking options and possibilities with ultimate stability since they have the people who design the processors right in house.

Think about it, AMD power and overclockability on an ATI videocard. An ATI motherboard with the attention of AMD programmers and can be made to accept ATI videocards and AMD processors for excellent stability and maximum overclocking.
 
pairdice said:
i think its funny how alot of posters here talk like they know internally whats going on with AMD and their Technology.LOL
Like as if they work there or something?..LOL

Lets not forget that this Technology takes Years to develop and test, it's not like they thought it up yesterday, and then pooped it out today.....

Bottom line, AMD will return and spank Intel, then Intel will return and spank AMD.yadda yadda yadda.same ol story, i buy whatever i can afford, on a poor mans budget.
the competition between these 2 comps has allowed me to do that.
AMD owned Intel with the K6 family and the Thunderbird Athlons, and the FX Line pulled out a can of whoop ass......so stop complaining Fanboys, Unless you work for AMD and know exactly whats going on, it's all trash talk to me.......LOL
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Some of them actually do work at AMD or closely with AMD (and Intel I'm sure). Do you suppose that in a sea of enthusiasts none of them would actually work for the companies they buy parts from?
 
ClariorHincHonos said:
Some of them actually do work at AMD or closely with AMD (and Intel I'm sure). Do you suppose that in a sea of enthusiasts none of them would actually work for the companies they buy parts from?
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The people that are actually in the position to have the information that a lot of people act like they have are not nearly stupid enough to void their employment by giving it away.

99.99% is people repeating what they saw elsewhere including, but not limited to, other forums, newspapers, bathroom walls, and drug-induced hallucinations.
 
I still buy AMD, and recommend it to other non-enthusiasts. Yes Intel performs better, but overall system cost is a bit higher than and AMD system. While an enthusiast typically wants more performance per dollar, the average computer user just wants what will do the job at the cheapest price. Right now, AMD fills that category.

AMD just needs to gain some ground in the OEM sector and start selling systems. Considering the holidays are upon us and most AMD systems are the cheapest, I believe they'll do well. (Or at least improve their situation)

My fellow enthusiasts, please remember that we are a small percentage of the revenue for either company. A drop in the bucket really. We're very selective, we only buy certain chips (known good overclockers, for example...like the 3600 Brisbane), and we're a fickle bunch. Enterprise, business and general home markets are another story. Anyone with any data center experience knows that processor companies make tons of money there. In my experience with the Air Force I know businesses are a huge money maker (in my 6 years in active duty it was only toward the end I started to see AMD systems). And finally, the home users out number us by a large margin.

I say all of that to try to remind people that they really, really can't argue the state of any chip company based on the enthusiast corner of the world. We may have some sway on our friends, but in the end the grand total at the register has the last word in many cases.
 
Nemesis999 said:
The people that are actually in the position to have the information that a lot of people act like they have are not nearly stupid enough to void their employment by giving it away.

99.99% is people repeating what they saw elsewhere including, but not limited to, other forums, newspapers, bathroom walls, and drug-induced hallucinations.
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Well, the point being made was leaning a bit to the extreme side, as if NONE of the employees ever comment. This is entirely untrue, which was my point. Sure, they are all under some sort of NDA, but that doesn't mean they can't offer their opinions or views of the company. They just can't divulge sensitive information. I've also seen some AMD employees inquire within the company for troubleshooting answers (temps with Brisbane chips in my experience).
 
ClariorHincHonos said:
Well, the point being made was leaning a bit to the extreme side, as if NONE of the employees ever comment. This is entirely untrue, which was my point. Sure, they are all under some sort of NDA, but that doesn't mean they can't offer their opinions or views of the company. They just can't divulge sensitive information. I've also seen some AMD employees inquire within the company for troubleshooting answers (temps with Brisbane chips in my experience).
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I work at a tech company and I NEVER post about my own company. You would be on pretty thin ice doing that, it could easily come back to haunt you. So I bet most don't.
 
Check that. Intel doesn't need AMD. They would make gobs more money if there was no AMD.

We need AMD to forestall a monopoly. Competition keeps research up, keeps prices down.

To see a monopoly in action you only need look at microsoft. $400 for office when the production cost might be 98 cents. Nothing like a 99% profit margin to keep you warm at night.
 
AMD is certainly important in the industry. Let's not forget that x64 might not be here right now without AMD. They really lead the way with that technology.
 
There is a big difference between important and financially sound. 3dfx was massively important in the industry...
 
Snowdog, there is more to profits than just production cost - selling price.

AMD has yet to really reap the rewards of their acquisition yet. Intel is... Intel. As soon as Intel regains the performance crown, they revert right back to pricing their cpu's extremely high. Oh well... I'll be using the hell out of my s939 system till Phenom vs Peyrn reviews come out.
 
Snowdog said:
Check that. Intel doesn't need AMD. They would make gobs more money if there was no AMD.

We need AMD to forestall a monopoly. Competition keeps research up, keeps prices down.

To see a monopoly in action you only need look at microsoft. $400 for office when the production cost might be 98 cents. Nothing like a 99% profit margin to keep you warm at night.
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So you are telling me that the whole IBM fiasco back in the day with AMD and Intel, then the lawsuit, sharing of R&D ideas between the two companies mean nothing? Come on man, you know Intel depends on AMD to occupy a certain market share in order to keep things moving forward in the industry. Competition is not only good for the consumer, but also for the companies involved by helping them keep their weapons sharp.
 
XamediX said:
Snowdog, there is more to profits than just production cost - selling price.
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Those are the biggest factors. I have been dabbling in tech stocks for about 10years. I pay pretty close attention. Whenever AMD's ASP falls, they lose money. It is as simple as that. Right now their ASP is being pummeled.

Latest news in recent days is more of the same. On CPU's AMD can't get the 2.6GHz quads out this year will be realeasing ~2.4GHz top speed.

Details are out on the the 3800 cards and it looks almost certain they won't be competitive with 8800GT from NVidia, they fastes version is only about the same speed as the 2900XT which the GT leaves in the dust.

So still no premium product, still mired in second for both businesses. Still getting low margins and losing money.
 
Ingonuts13 said:
So you are telling me that the whole IBM fiasco back in the day with AMD and Intel, then the lawsuit, sharing of R&D ideas between the two companies mean nothing? Come on man, you know Intel depends on AMD to occupy a certain market share in order to keep things moving forward in the industry. Competition is not only good for the consumer, but also for the companies involved by helping them keep their weapons sharp.
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The purpose of a company is to make money. It is naive to think otherwise. Competition doesn't help them make more money. You don't need sharp weapons if you have no competition.

Competition is vital for the consumer for those reason,but none of that matters for a company with no competitors. If there were no AMD, Intel could still be selling low end netburst single cores for $400 and making triple the profits.

It would truly suck for us if AMD were to collapse, but it would be great for Intel.
 
Snowdog said:
The purpose of a company is to make money. It is naive to think otherwise. Competition doesn't help them make more money. You don't need sharp weapons if you have no competition.
It would truly suck for us if AMD were to collapse, but it would be great for Intel.
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Sure you need sharp weapons, the market will still only bear what it can. Competition drives down prices, which in turn makes what once were considered luxury items available to all consumers, therefore increasing profit margin by sheer volume. And of course they are in the business of making money, that was never in question. High margin/Low Volume companies usually never sustain the long haul especially in this industry of electronics.

Intel does not want AMD to go out of business, but they also do not want them to hold too much market share either.
 
They need to lose a bit of the Technology is king attitude.
Case in point: Intel released the "non-native" Quad Core. AMD called it "non-native", but what do they have to show for that? Nothing.

Is the current C2D architecture actually that great? My opinion is that Intel's wasting a lot of silicon to make cache just to make up for the lack of memory bandwidth. They're just about to move into integrated memory controller, while the Athlon64 held that lead for so long. AFAIK it's easier to have a multi-socket system using HyperTransport than the aging FSB.

However, what Intel's got is business sense. They know that the majority of computer user can't tell their RAM from their power supplies, and if they hear 4 core, they think 4 core, none of this nuanced crap that they could care less. They've had a tech lead, they just need to learn more business tactics. That and not delay their stuff anymore.

Frankly I'm more AMD loyal, but I've been getting the feeling that I should've bought a C2D system. However, I still went AMD cause I don't care much for Intel and their marketing, that and the AMD system is still cheaper, and delivered the performance that I required.
 
Snowdog said:
Those are the biggest factors. I have been dabbling in tech stocks for about 10years. I pay pretty close attention. Whenever AMD's ASP falls, they lose money. It is as simple as that. Right now their ASP is being pummeled.

Latest news in recent days is more of the same. On CPU's AMD can't get the 2.6GHz quads out this year will be realeasing ~2.4GHz top speed.

Details are out on the the 3800 cards and it looks almost certain they won't be competitive with 8800GT from NVidia, they fastes version is only about the same speed as the 2900XT which the GT leaves in the dust.

So still no premium product, still mired in second for both businesses. Still getting low margins and losing money.
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Sure seems premium to me. A lot of people expect AMD and ATI to merge together and instantly be able to fix EVERYTHING that had problems, create the most bad ass CPU and video card to be released Q3 of this year, and clean house and reap huge profits in the first month after being merged. Things take time, especially mergers and acquisitions. The Firestream Stream Processor shows that they knew it was a good move and that many good things are to come.
 
so many of you guys are making these comments before anyone has yet to really see AMD's rebuttle.
 
MrWizard6600 said:
so many of you guys are making these comments before anyone has yet to really see AMD's rebuttle.
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Phenom, RD790, and R680 (or RV670) is AMDs answer. If its proven that these products are poor performers then, yes, AMD is in trouble.

But, until the, AMD is fighting intel the only way they know how, massive price cuts, and, in all fairness they do remain pretty compeditive.
 
MrWizard6600 said:
Phenom, RD790, and R680 (or RV670) is AMDs answer. If its proven that these products are poor performers then, yes, AMD is in trouble.

But, until the, AMD is fighting intel the only way they know how, massive price cuts, and, in all fairness they do remain pretty compeditive.
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I don't know about MB graphics, but Phenom has already been shown to be nothing special and rumors say it's top launch speed will be 2.4GHZ, RV670 is the same speed as 2900XT which means it gets blown out of the water by 8800GT and R680 (dual gpu card) is not coming till next year.

So for the visible future, AMD is mired in second (losing money) position on both graphics and CPUs.
 
Wildman_CAL said:
As much of an Intel fanboy as I am, I do not want to see AMD sink as it will allow Intel to become lazy again and not innovate like they have been. Intel needs AMD as much as AMD needs Intel.
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And WE need them BOTH alive and well, or else we get stuck with higher prices for less product!


If AMD wasn't around, we'd be paying $600 for a 2ghz dual core, same as if ATI wasn't here, the 8800GT would cost $450 !!!!!

Competition is GOOD.
 
Snowdog said:
I don't know about MB graphics, but Phenom has already been shown to be nothing special and rumors say it's top launch speed will be 2.4GHZ, RV670 is the same speed as 2900XT which means it gets blown out of the water by 8800GT and R680 (dual gpu card) is not coming till next year.

So for the visible future, AMD is mired in second (losing money) position on both graphics and CPUs.
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well lets just wait and see what these products can do before you get all hyped about something that looks like its gonna fail.

amd athlon xp 3200+ was at 2.2 ghz, but it still gave the P4 3.0 cpu a run for it's money, so lets wait and see what happens when they come out and THEN you can state whether or not this ship is about to sink?
 
All businesses are cyclical, so are product competitions. Both AMD and ATI have been the on top before.

Even if they don't have the performance crown right now, they're still getting large amounts of contracts from Dell, HP. B2B sales are where the bulk of the money is at, whether couple of thousands of ultra nerds will buy the super high-end isn't as much of a concern from a business perspective.

I have close friends and family that work for both Intel and AMD, Intel will NOT let AMD sink, if nothing else, they need to maintain an illusion of competition and choice for the consumers.
 
Seems like some people in here actually want them to die.

That would be good for Intel only.
 
mdameron said:
Seems like some people in here actually want them to die.

That would be good for Intel only.
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No it won't. If people don't have a "worse case" to look at, Intel will always be accused of slacking in innovation.
 
mdameron said:
Seems like some people in here actually want them to die.

That would be good for Intel only.
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Don't confuse a realistic assessment of AMDs precarious position, with actually wishing they fail. Tech without AMD would suck. Competition is what gets us better tech faster and at better prices.

But it is wishful thinking, to think AMD is not in trouble. They need to get a top product to get some premium market share and mindshare back.
 
Snowdog said:
I don't know about MB graphics, but Phenom has already been shown to be nothing special and rumors say it's top launch speed will be 2.4GHZ, RV670 is the same speed as 2900XT which means it gets blown out of the water by 8800GT and R680 (dual gpu card) is not coming till next year.

So for the visible future, AMD is mired in second (losing money) position on both graphics and CPUs.
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RD 790 is the newest chipset from ATI/AMD (ie it is the sucessor to the Xpress 3200, which IMHO is an excellent chipset: 32 lanes off the NB while remaining ice cold on passive cooling! superb!). It promises quad Crossfire as well as pci-e 2, along with several other improvements. It has little to do with graphics. I'm sure this product will be good even if it does not suceed.

And we just dont know enough about phenom. Some of the changes that I read about in Xbits disection of Barcelona did seem to me to be things that could really boost performance. I have also heard the rumors that Phenom will only come in a maximum SKU of 2.4GHz but remember at computex they did have a copy of XP running on their newest generation of processor at 3.0Ghz. It seems to me AMD just needs some time to tinker with their new 65nm process, and I'm confident in later revisions we shall see 2.6 or even 2.8Ghz SKUs.

And whos got the top dog in terms of performance in the graphics card market is somewhat irrelivent. When Nvidia launched the 6 series all they had going for them was SM3.0. ATI had the better hardware, but Nvidia manged to sell more 6600GTs then any other card Nvidia has ever produced. The reason was the 6600GT, a mid-range/performance part was here quick, it ran cool, had a high production yeild (unlike its disgusting bigger brother, the 6800), and was (and heres the key) offered at a very compeditive price point. Im sure Nvidia made 3 or 4 times as much money on 6600 then they did on 6800 sales. So in terms of the graphics market, a little bit of hype (such as DX 10.1 --ATIs RV670's got it and Nvidia doesn't [b4 you ask NO the G92 does NOT support DX 10.1]), combined with a well thought out mid-range/performance product can mean big things in the sales department.


pairdice
 
Sorry about the bad spelling and the misterious appearance of "pairdice"'s name in my post. I was copying and pasting things left right and center and just kinda lost track. And sorry bout the poor spelling, I'm just exausted, its 1 am after all...
 
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