Is a web design career worth it?

[Coldblackice]

To any web designers in the [H]-house, whether by profession or by hobby (or if you know someone of such) --

Is a career in web design worth investing in?

(Wildly subjective, yes.)

Whether you're in the industry (backend or frontend), know someone, or are a hobbyist -- What's your best estimate of current average salary for an at least average->good web designer (on average)?

As far as demand goes -- how hard is it to currently find consistent employment? More important, how is that demand trending toward the future?

The prognosis I've gotten from commentary and discussion around the web is that there was an expectation that web design was primed and even destined for an eventual and complete outsourcing (like most programming in general). But lately, I've started to pick up on a growing consensus otherwise -- that something as visually/artistically "skilled" as web design, for the most part, won't be largely outsourced.

I ask because I stand at a crossroads of programming focus to hone in on. I've considered web design, perhaps naively thinking that such a career would not only pay decently well, but have demand such that jobs could be found pretty much anywhere, given the wide of the world's businesses for websites.


Anyway, any and all input welcomed. Just looking to get a better feel for that industry, and decide whether it's a path worth walking down, or avoiding altogether.

I don't know if it'd be worth it (or feasible) to develop the skill as a side "hobby" in one's spare time -- anyone have experience with such?

 

[Breath_of_the_Dying]

According to GlassDoor.com the national average salary for ASP.Net Software Engineersis $80k.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/asp-net-developer-salary-SRCH_KO0,17.htm

I work on websites, but I dont call myself a website developer. That usually gets confused with a highly artistic role in terms of images, layout, color, etc. While that is part of my job, my role is really a software engineer with a website as the presentation layer. All the main goals of software engineer applies to web applications: security, scalability, efficency, maintainability, user experience, etc.

There's a lot to learn with web development if you're new to it and want to get really good at it. Depending on how much time you invest in it on the side will significantly determine how long I would consider it worthwhile as a return on investment(as in, how long I'd consider it enough experience to consider hiring for a position like that). Although I've only been in the .NET world professionally, I dont think you're locked in to web design if you find it's not what you want. As you get better with .NET and C# picking up other skills (WCF or WPF for example) aren't bad at all.

As for demand, my company is always looking for more .NET Software Engineers. There's flexibility to work on both web and non-web projects, so we're not specific with knowing web.

 

[robvas]

Web development is hot, both front-end and back-end. See what's being used in your area (or the area you want to find a job in) before you dig too deep. Nothing like knowing the ins and outs of a LAMP stack and your area only has jobs in .NET or Java.

 

[Sgraffite]

When you say web design do you mean the non-programming aspect of web development?

 

[krogen]

A web designer is someone who designs websites, an artist. May or may not know HTML & CSS, usually does not know any programming languages and does not work on the programming side of a project.

A web developer is someone who works on the logic of a website. May or may not know HTML & CSS, works on the programming side of a project and may or may not do IT work.

These are two very different positions. There are few people who do both well as most people who are artistically inclined are not very technical, and vice versa. It's hard to tell from your post to which position you are referring to.

Web designers get paid anywhere from $30-60k. Web developers get paid anywhere from $40-100k. There are plenty of web development jobs in large cities. Web design jobs are usually quite a bit harder to find.

Both jobs require degrees in their fields. Nobody will take you seriously if you apply for a position as a web developer without a computer science or equivalent degree. If you do manage to get find a job, it will be a much lower paid job. Of course, I am not talking in absolutes here.

 

[PTNL]

Is a career in web design worth investing in?

(Wildly subjective, yes.)

The web developer career path isn't going away anytime soon. We cannot answer a question of the value of your time/money/motivation against this career path.

The prognosis I've gotten from commentary and discussion around the web is that there was an expectation that web design was primed and even destined for an eventual and complete outsourcing (like most programming in general). But lately, I've started to pick up on a growing consensus otherwise -- that something as visually/artistically "skilled" as web design, for the most part, won't be largely outsourced.

I ask because I stand at a crossroads of programming focus to hone in on. I've considered web design, perhaps naively thinking that such a career would not only pay decently well, but have demand such that jobs could be found pretty much anywhere, given the wide of the world's businesses for websites.

Your competition for employment is global, so consider your "prognosis" as just that understanding. If you're not creating/adding value for a business and/or cannot show (any) metrics backing up the investment a company is putting in you, then you could be looking for employment elsewhere.

Another point to consider is that programming is one of the few careers where you are "permanently in school". You will always need to continue your education and improvement (though I am not exclusively referring to paper degrees or certifications).

 

[Breath_of_the_Dying]

Another point to consider is that programming is one of the few careers where you are "permanently in school". You will always need to continue your education and improvement (though I am not exclusively referring to paper degrees or certifications).

This is one of the great parts about Software Engineering, there's always something to learn. One of the biggest questions I ask Sr. Developers we're looking at hiring is, "What do you do to keep up with newer technology?" You find some Sr. Developers became senior because they've been doing the exact same thing for 10 years (like working on an ASP.NET web form website) and havent learned anything new or anything outside of what their job requires. Usually not a good candidate, even though they may have more than 4x more "experience" than I do.

 

[Parmenides]

Part of the problem with outsourcing is communication. It really can be a barrier in many instances. And even for those english speakers, sometimes companies just really like to see people on site. Web jobs won't be quite as easily outsourced like textile work was. It can be done with great success, but certainly not in many cases. BTW, outsourcing to Costa Rica has it's advantages over India, one of which being that they live in the same time zone that you are. Again, good communication is very important.

 

[Dogs]

Another point to consider is that programming is one of the few careers where you are "permanently in school". You will always need to continue your education and improvement (though I am not exclusively referring to paper degrees or certifications).

I think this statement is inaccurate. A good employee should always be doing this regardless of their career. Professional development should be expected in any field/occupation.

Part of the problem with outsourcing is communication. It really can be a barrier in many instances. And even for those english speakers, sometimes companies just really like to see people on site. Web jobs won't be quite as easily outsourced like textile work was. It can be done with great success, but certainly not in many cases. BTW, outsourcing to Costa Rica has it's advantages over India, one of which being that they live in the same time zone that you are. Again, good communication is very important.

Another concern is espionage. Sometimes it is not legally or ethically appropriate to outsource the labour.

 

[FrEaKy]

I think this statement is inaccurate. A good employee should always be doing this regardless of their career. Professional development should be expected in any field/occupation.


Another concern is espionage. Sometimes it is not legally or ethically appropriate to outsource the labour.

Agreed with both statements. I know myself, when I started doing ColdFusion development, I started with ColdFusion 8, when 9 came out I was already on it trying to figure out the new features I could use or implement into pre-existing pages to make the code less intrusive and more stable, when 10 came out, I was doing the exact same thing, infact, started implementing alot of the File Manager features that came with 10.

While this may be easier to do with certain other languages that have long periods inbetween versions, with some software, like ColdFusion, you have to roll with the ball as soon as it goes by, being behind a version sucks.

Also agree with the espionage statement. Talked to many companies where they outsourced alot of the back-end work, I would see their code after and want to shoot myself because it was to intrusive to be used, full of security loop-holes and almost a total waist of money. I dont think its a good idea to outsource if you are not in constant contact with the company, before, during and after the work.

 

[The Donut]

Both jobs require degrees in their fields. Nobody will take you seriously if you apply for a position as a web developer without a computer science or equivalent degree. If you do manage to get find a job, it will be a much lower paid job. Of course, I am not talking in absolutes here.

I don't find this to be a true at all; at least not where I have worked (Canada and the UK).

In fact, many of the reputable employees will either base your eligibility based on a portfolio and/or experience.

Some employees I have worked with actually much prefer those are don't have degrees in order to hire someone who has educated him or herself without structured guidelines and therefore gained additional experience those that were school-educated would have missed.

 

[Spidey329]

Both jobs require degrees in their fields. Nobody will take you seriously if you apply for a position as a web developer without a computer science or equivalent degree. If you do manage to get find a job, it will be a much lower paid job. Of course, I am not talking in absolutes here.

Not at all. As what TheDonut said - A lot of companies prefer EXPERIENCE over freshly printed degrees. You can only learn so much in a classroom. I started doing websites freelance about 15 years ago. Still do them on the side as a hobby. I know people who have degrees and slept through college.

So if *I'm hiring*, I'm looking for knowledge and responsibility. I don't care how you obtained it. If two candidates come to me, one with a good work history at McDonalds as a fry cook for 4 years and a really good portfolio of work (side hobby). Another comes to me right out of college with minimal job experience (he's been in school) and very little portfolio. Guess who's getting the job? The McDonalds guy. He's proven to be responsible and has work to back it up.

Most places I've ever applied will say "Bachelors Degree or X Years Experience in the Field". Usually it equates out to about 2 years of experience is good for 4 years of university. But a lot differ, some 1:1.

 

[cnick79]

Experience will always trump education, because you can't teach experience. Degrees are good at helping you get your foot in the door, but people with degrees still need to work their way up the chain. I feel many people believe once they get a degree, the big bucks will come rolling in. This is generally not the case unless you graduated from a top school (and the majority do not).

I'm a firm believer in money will find those who are good at what they do, no matter the field they are in.

 

[Raekwon]

As someone with a business degree and no interest in going back to school, it is reassuring to read these posts. I firmly believe that the knowledge for so many subjects is out there for anyone to grab. I hope the education system catches up.

 

[shado]

SHORT ANSWER: YES -- but you will need to find out what languages/environments are most used and rewarded in your particular location.
It's probably going to be PHP or ASP.NET; most aren't on the Ruby, Java solutions yet.
Something that would be wise to get an edge on is Node.js

Now if you are just thinking about doing design -- most likely you just need Illustrator/Dreamweaver/Fireworks skills.

Anyone serious about anything with web should definitely have solid understanding with HTML5,CSS3, and the HTTP protocol (WHETHER DESIGNER OR DEVELOPER -- in my opinion).

Here's an idea.
I used to do web stuff when I was younger (middle/high school).
In college, I started doing more programming and web development.

Now in my career, I started out in helpdesk (not much programming or web) but now I have a hybrid position where I do little of everything. From helpdesk, networking, programming, design, business decisions, etc.

So yes you can get into web design or web development but I would not limit yourself to one niche specialization. Always keep learning not only "new" things but also different but ulimately related things.

In a nutshell, do what you like and is least stressful, but also has most reward and potential (money and security). Kinda obvious I guess...

^^^ Raekwon, nice nick WU-TANG FORVER

 

[Deleted member 12930]

A web designer is someone who designs websites, an artist. May or may not know HTML & CSS, usually does not know any programming languages and does not work on the programming side of a project.

A web developer is someone who works on the logic of a website. May or may not know HTML & CSS, works on the programming side of a project and may or may not do IT work.

So if a web designer doesn't write mark-up, and a web developer also may or may not write mark-up, who does?

--

Short answer: I support my wife, and two daughters with my wages (with help from the occasional freelance job). I am a web developer (official title is "programmer analyst"). You can definitely make a living doing this.

There is definitely available jobs out there. As others have said, a web designer will be a bit harder to find employment. But if you look at the major cities in your area you should have some luck. A web developer is a bit easier to find. In my experience a lot of people will outsource the design, but will want developers in house.

As far as difficulty of finding a job goes, you shouldn't have any trouble. I don't know if I lucked out, but the longest I've ever gone jobless in this industry was 3 months. And that's because it was the holidays, and I wasn't actively looking. I had a few months of wages saved up, so I decided to relax and be really picky about where I applied. I actually got recruited away from one company to another. That's how I wound up at my current job.

What others have said about wages is pretty accurate as well.

You need to really decide if you want to go into design, or development. Take a long hard look at your competencies, and be honest with yourself. Personally I earned a BS in Multimedia and Web Design (the school changed the name to "Interactive Media" shortly after I graduated). After being a junior designer for a few years, I realized that I was actually a pretty shitty designer and was much better at development and programming.

Good luck.

 

[Coldblackice]

SHORT ANSWER: YES -- but you will need to find out what languages/environments are most used and rewarded in your particular location.
It's probably going to be PHP or ASP.NET; most aren't on the Ruby, Java solutions yet.
Something that would be wise to get an edge on is Node.js

Now if you are just thinking about doing design -- most likely you just need Illustrator/Dreamweaver/Fireworks skills.

Anyone serious about anything with web should definitely have solid understanding with HTML5,CSS3, and the HTTP protocol (WHETHER DESIGNER OR DEVELOPER -- in my opinion).

Here's an idea.
I used to do web stuff when I was younger (middle/high school).
In college, I started doing more programming and web development.

Now in my career, I started out in helpdesk (not much programming or web) but now I have a hybrid position where I do little of everything. From helpdesk, networking, programming, design, business decisions, etc.

So yes you can get into web design or web development but I would not limit yourself to one niche specialization. Always keep learning not only "new" things but also different but ulimately related things.

In a nutshell, do what you like and is least stressful, but also has most reward and potential (money and security). Kinda obvious I guess...

^^^ Raekwon, nice nick WU-TANG FORVER

Thanks for this!

Any recommendations for a course of learning to approach? In other words, if I wanted to take the web development route over designing, what would be a good general course to plot in sharpening skills in this area? If one has a general understanding of HTML/CSS/PHP, would it be better to laser in on one specific area to master, or dabble in each concurrently?

And what would be a good "end goal" to aim for in terms of getting a job in web development? Does a web development job pretty much hinge on a portfolio of one's work? (and therefore, one should revolve their learning and education around the focal point of learning and pumping out great portfolio material)

So if a web designer doesn't write mark-up, and a web developer also may or may not write mark-up, who does?

--

Short answer: I support my wife, and two daughters with my wages (with help from the occasional freelance job). I am a web developer (official title is "programmer analyst"). You can definitely make a living doing this.

There is definitely available jobs out there. As others have said, a web designer will be a bit harder to find employment. But if you look at the major cities in your area you should have some luck. A web developer is a bit easier to find. In my experience a lot of people will outsource the design, but will want developers in house.

As far as difficulty of finding a job goes, you shouldn't have any trouble. I don't know if I lucked out, but the longest I've ever gone jobless in this industry was 3 months. And that's because it was the holidays, and I wasn't actively looking. I had a few months of wages saved up, so I decided to relax and be really picky about where I applied. I actually got recruited away from one company to another. That's how I wound up at my current job.

What others have said about wages is pretty accurate as well.

You need to really decide if you want to go into design, or development. Take a long hard look at your competencies, and be honest with yourself. Personally I earned a BS in Multimedia and Web Design (the school changed the name to "Interactive Media" shortly after I graduated). After being a junior designer for a few years, I realized that I was actually a pretty shitty designer and was much better at development and programming.

Good luck.

Great to know! Much obliged for this.

If I wanted to focus on a web development track, what would be a good course to plot in learning? I suppose it would entail the obvious -- books and digesting/breaking down example code of sites -- but any finer specifics on a best course of learning to plot?

With a general understanding of HTML/CSS/PHP, would it be better to focus mostly on one specific area (approaching mastership), or would it be better to take them all on concurrently?

Perhaps an even more pertinent question (that may better answer the previous questions) -- What's a good target or end goal to aim for in terms of getting hired as a web developer? In other words, would it be best for one to focus their learning and efforts on producing personal portfolio examples to show at interviews? Or would it be better to focus more on the fine/detailed theory and mechanics, like in preparation for interview programming problems, where one must demonstrate their knowledge by solving some type of problem placed before them by the interviewer?

 

[Breath_of_the_Dying]

The biggest thing that I look for when interviewing for more developers for my team is passion for software development. I look for people who love what they do and even if it didn't pay well (good jobs will) they would continue down the industry. I look for people who are going above and beyond learning what's needed for the job, especially if it may be useful in the future. He or she doesn't learn it because the job may require it in the future, but learns just because its awesome to. I look for someone who strives to get better and never settles for "good enough"

Having said that, when looking at jr developers (the position I assume you're aiming for first) I dont expect perfection, I expect analytic thought. The web is out there, stack overflow is out there, almost anyone can get an answer for the coding questions you would see in an interview. So if you're wrong, you're wrong, but that doesnt mean an absolute rejection. How did you go about trying to find the answer? For jr developers, I want to see potential, someone that I can teach our system, and they'll learn it in reasonable time. There is a type of analytic thinking that I look for. Even if you get the answer wrong, if you prove that I can teach you how to arrive at better answers, then that is a good sign in my book. Analytic thought cant be memorized through books, it must be refined through actively questioning everything.

One thing to note is that in the industry, most real problems dont just have a right or wrong answer. There are always tradeoffs: speed, space, complexity, maintainability, convenience, security, time to complete, etc. Once you get a job, its not always about pumping out right answers, its about contributing to the team to arrive at the best answer.

I was in your shoes not even 3 years ago. One of my interviews back then was very embarrassing. I had no professional experience, and I didnt know how to interview or how to even start. How does one get experience if they need experience to land the job in the first place? I was very lucky to land my job as a jr developer, and I learned so much in my first year. I then realized what got me my job was not past experience (some lousy internship and school work), not my expertise in a language or skill, nor my perfect coding answers (which I think I got most of them wrong). It was my potential, I had a good foundation to get started and I had a passion to learn more.



So for a more specific answer to your questions, to start of you'll want to focus on a specific programming language and them HTML on top of it. Where ever you're looking, find what skills that company (or the companies in that area) are looking for and focus on that. This path isnt permanent, but you need a foundation to at least get started. You can do PHP, Ruby, C#, Java, or other ones, but pick one and go with it. For my company, I'd rather have someone thats a 3/10 in C#, than a 1/10 in C#, Java, Objective-C, PHP, and Ruby. For web development, you'll also need to know HTML, CSS, and Javascript. Dont expect or aim to master it before your first job, not even 3 years in, I'm still learning so much about HTTP and web browsing. You need to know the basics, some cool features, and prove that you can learn more as needed (and want to learn beyond whats needed).

 

[Coldblackice]

Very helpful, thanks BotD!

What about portfolio work? It seems that it's a bit of a paradox -- you need portfolio work to get a job, but you need a job to get (paid) portfolio work.

Is the answer just to create a bunch of unpaid site examples yourself? And if you're going about creating portfolio work on your own, what do you do or focus on? Just create mockups of websites that a potential employer might like?

 

[PTNL]

What about portfolio work? It seems that it's a bit of a paradox -- you need portfolio work to get a job, but you need a job to get (paid) portfolio work.

Is the answer just to create a bunch of unpaid site examples yourself? And if you're going about creating portfolio work on your own, what do you do or focus on? Just create mockups of websites that a potential employer might like?

Portfolio work is nice, but showing them to an interviewer doesn't actually prove you created it.

However, doing such portfolio projects (whether paid, freelance, personal, etc. is irrelevant) does increase your knowledge and ability to speak about the subjects required for the position you are interviewing for.

 

[Coldblackice]

Portfolio work is nice, but showing them to an interviewer doesn't actually prove you created it.

However, doing such portfolio projects (whether paid, freelance, personal, etc. is irrelevant) does increase your knowledge and ability to speak about the subjects required for the position you are interviewing for.

Ah, gotcha. Thanks. I had thought portfolio was "king".

So what sort of metrics are looked for in interviews? BotD mentioned passion and enthusiasm. But are there other, perhaps more quantitative metrics? How does the typical/average web development interview go?

 

[Breath_of_the_Dying]

This is more a software engineer position prep book, but from my point of view its the same as web developer. This helped me figure out how to put my best foot forward when prepping a resume, and what interviewers are really looking for in an engineer. If you're going strictly for web development, some different things apply (http, security, CSS are not covered) but it is a good baseline.

It's java based preparation, but I had no trouble practicing C# with it.

Cracking the coding interview

Edit: know your target, this is also geared for the big guns in software development, but what all interviewers look for are basically the same

 

[fsd1969]

I just started teaching myself web design/development and I wanted to offer my perspective. I have done a lot of research on the subject myself however I find myself still asking very similar questions to the OP.

For one thing, I look at it more as building a bankable skillset. Not as getting a job or starting a different career. I'm currently a video editor, so I look at web work as a possible extension/expansion/transition of what I do because it has similarities and it is just another form of media. Also from what I understand getting a staff job at a big company is only one of several ways to make money with web design/development if you are business minded. If you have the skillset, the money should come. This kind of work is in high demand right now, and it requires very intelligent people to do it.

As other people have mentioned, specialization is very important. However, I have yet to specialize. I think as a beginner you need to get an overview of how everything works, what you are good at, and learn the fundamentals of programming before you can start saying that you specialize in a certain language or area. I have jumped back and forth between different areas, but it seems like I have been moving forward the most with front end web development (html,css,jquery, php). I don't know what works best for me yet.

I think it is really important in order to learn and get results at the same time to have a personal project that you are working on. For example: I have 3 websites that I setup using premium wordpress templates a few years ago. No coding required originally. Now that I am in the process of learning, I rebuilt 2 of these websites with my own html/css and added some free jquery plugins. Each time I do a new website, I try to set the bar higher.

As far as actually studying the subject, it's a long never-ending road. A lot of reading, a lot of memorizing, and a lot of trial and error. I try to mix it up by reading books, watching tutorials, and working on my own projects.

 

[Coldblackice]

This is more a software engineer position prep book, but from my point of view its the same as web developer. This helped me figure out how to put my best foot forward when prepping a resume, and what interviewers are really looking for in an engineer. If you're going strictly for web development, some different things apply (http, security, CSS are not covered) but it is a good baseline.

It's java based preparation, but I had no trouble practicing C# with it.

Cracking the coding interview

Edit: know your target, this is also geared for the big guns in software development, but what all interviewers look for are basically the same

Much obliged, thanks mate.

 

[mikeblas]

Is a career in web design worth investing in?

You should be able to answer this yourself. When we decide if something is worth the investment, we first figure out what the investment costs. Then, we compare that with the return. If the return is greater than the investment cost, it's worthwhile. How would you estimate those costs in your situation? What do you think the return will be?

What's your best estimate of current average salary for an at least average->good web designer (on average)?

Salary varies regionally, with experience, with skill level, and with project type. As such, I think you're doing yourself a disservice by trying to find a single aggregation because it will eliminate those variances -- and those variances can be quite telling.

As far as demand goes -- how hard is it to currently find consistent employment? More important, how is that demand trending toward the future?

Anyone who is good -- flexible, experienced, prompt, professional, and delivers good value -- will have no problem finding employment now or in the future.

The prognosis I've gotten from commentary and discussion around the web is that there was an expectation that web design was primed and even destined for an eventual and complete outsourcing (like most programming in general).

I think you're holding an inappropriately pessimistic evaluation of the job market.

I ask because I stand at a crossroads of programming focus to hone in on. I've considered web design,

Web design isn't programming. What are your other choices?